San Francisco opens up safe-injection room

[Norelco]

You guys can't be serious. This is a freakin crime. Giving ppl a safe place to do drugs won't solve anything cept create more druggies.

You're not very smart for being a Ghostbuster.

[Tristam]

This reminds me of an entire season of The Wire. Didn't think anything like this would ever really happen though. Hopefully this will provide a better avenue for help for the addicts etc.

[sephir]

weve had this up here for a long time so its nothing new.

The point of these programs is to allow Drug users to be safe from things such as AIDS (instead of them sharing needles they provide clean ones) and ODs. Although I would much rather see them seek some sort of rehab and fix their program until that time they should be able to at live until then.

You'd think they'd OD just as often under nurse supervision as without. The only difference is they'll have medical attention afterward. It's not like the nurse is going to step forward and say "Whoa, that's way too much!"

As for the argument that druggies harm innocent people as well as themselves, how does this program reduce harm to others? I could care less about the druggies themselves, if they're stupid enough to do the kinds of drugs that kill you or use/share dirty needles. The exception being if this really does increase the number of rehabs and those people end up doing something productive.

Easy. lets say a druggy contacts HIV/AIDS from the use of a needle. Now this druggy could possibly prostitute themselves or do some other thing to infect a non-drug user. This non druggy now has HIV and can spread it among other people. Or a druggy with HIV gets clean and has sex with soneone. This person will now have HIV and probly not event know it until its too late.

The point of this is to allow people to live long enough so that they can seek rehab. Whats the point in seeking rehab when you have HIV and you know you are going to die within the next few years. Also San Fran. has had to deal with AIDS and this is just the next step in fixing the problem.

[Jeryhn]

I understand both the arguments for and against the clean room, but there is one thing that the city hasn't considered. Going to the clean room is voluntary. Even if they open 300 clean rooms throughout San Francisco, druggies are still going to shoot up in the familiar haunts they already do.

They won't stop going to Golden Gate Park to shoot up just because there's another place to do it. One day the city will realize that the only thing they're doing is wasting taxpayer dollars by operating clean rooms, while still being committed to whatever expenses they're already spending to clean up the aftermath of drug addictions, as there's no guarantee that these rooms would even be used by those they are intended for.

[Tristam]

I understand both the arguments for and against the clean room, but there is one thing that the city hasn't considered. Going to the clean room is voluntary. Even if they open 300 clean rooms throughout San Francisco, druggies are still going to shoot up in the familiar haunts they already do.

They won't stop going to Golden Gate Park to shoot up just because there's another place to do it. One day the city will realize that the only thing they're doing is wasting taxpayer dollars by operating clean rooms, while still being committed to whatever expenses they're already spending to clean up the aftermath of drug addictions, as there's no guarantee that these rooms would even be used by those they are intended for.

Maybe, but there's only one way to find out, has anything like this ever been done before? If not I certainly don't see the harm in trying. Gov'ts waste money all the time on BS (I live in philly, mayoral corruption investigation is becoming a regular occurrance), at least this seems kinda innovative to me at least.

[Correction]

In SF, a lot of homeless stay in golden gate park. Consequently, there are oftentimes people that do drugs, have fires, etc. there and leave around dirty needles.

Yet another reason not to give homeless people any money right? :D

[Plow]

if they're stupid enough to do the kinds of drugs that kill you

Just FYI, the large majority of "the kinds of drugs that kill you" (opiates) are in heavy use medically around the world. You more than likely have some in your medicine cabinet yourself.


It's kinda like the old "guns don't kill people, people kill people" saying.

Drugs don't kill people, stupid people doing stupid shit with drugs kill people.


Aaaaaaand that's what this kind of thing is intended to help.

[Keno]

Anyone else read "reduces drug related deaths" as "keeps more felons alive and in your city streets!"?

[aurik]

Anyone else read "reduces drug related deaths" as "keeps more felons alive and in your city streets!"?

Not all drug-related deaths are the people who are doing the drugs.

[EternityEnd]

It's a trap! Everyone who participates in the program gets arrested.

[sephir]

I understand both the arguments for and against the clean room, but there is one thing that the city hasn't considered. Going to the clean room is voluntary. Even if they open 300 clean rooms throughout San Francisco, druggies are still going to shoot up in the familiar haunts they already do.

They won't stop going to Golden Gate Park to shoot up just because there's another place to do it. One day the city will realize that the only thing they're doing is wasting taxpayer dollars by operating clean rooms, while still being committed to whatever expenses they're already spending to clean up the aftermath of drug addictions, as there's no guarantee that these rooms would even be used by those they are intended for.

Maybe, but there's only one way to find out, has anything like this ever been done before? If not I certainly don't see the harm in trying. Gov'ts waste money all the time on BS (I live in philly, mayoral corruption investigation is becoming a regular occurrance), at least this seems kinda innovative to me at least.

This has been done in Vancouver for close to 10 years now(at least) and has significantly reduced AIDS transmissions among junkies.

[Atlasion]

I think its a pretty good idea. At least this way addicts will probably get a lot more information on the drugs and will be getting more help to quit from the clinics.

For years and years before now the general view seems to be that drugs are illegal so people should be punished for using them. This doesn't seem to have worked too well. I think its about time for a new approach to the situation.

[-Omni]

The first legal crackhouse.

Fuck yes, social liberalism here we come!

I'm buying stock in Ganja Co. as soon as it goes public.

YOU THINK I AM KIDDING

[Intense]

YOU THINK I AM KIDDING

Nah I didnt, usually people who are kidding are funny. :wink:

On topic, I think its a great idea. However, it really is a shame that a program like this cant go hand in hand with some sort of subtle rehab program. Cant have it both ways though, I guess.

[Correction]

YOU THINK I AM KIDDING

Nah I didnt, usually people who are kidding are funny. :wink:

On topic, I think its a great idea. However, it really is a shame that a program like this cant go hand in hand with some sort of subtle rehab program. Cant have it both ways though, I guess.

Just ask them while they're high who sells them their drugs and where, then bust the dealers. That's a 'subtle rehab program' everyone can get behind.

[Alleya]

YOU THINK I AM KIDDING

Nah I didnt, usually people who are kidding are funny. :wink:

On topic, I think its a great idea. However, it really is a shame that a program like this cant go hand in hand with some sort of subtle rehab program. Cant have it both ways though, I guess.

Just ask them while they're high who sells them their drugs and where, then bust the dealers. That's a 'subtle rehab program' everyone can get behind.

Doesn't matter how many people you put in jail. Where there's a law, there's a black market. It probably costs less to run these clinics than it does to keep all the people who visit it in jail.

[Correction]

Just ask them while they're high who sells them their drugs and where, then bust the dealers. That's a 'subtle rehab program' everyone can get behind.

Doesn't matter how many people you put in jail. Where there's a law, there's a black market. It probably costs less to run these clinics than it does to keep all the people who visit it in jail.

Didn't say we bust the junkies, just the people who sell junk. What's so unnecessarily expensive about that?

[evilbau]

I think needle exchange is a good idea, but this is going too far, imo. Not because it'll make things safer (because it probably will), but for exactly the reasons people have given in this thread. It shows that they have a set up a government sanctioned place to do illegal behavior. Needle exchange simply tries to supply clean needles to prevent transmission of diseases, etc.

I'm a bleeding heart liberal but this has the air of condoning drug use. The fact it could/would actually help people is overshadowed by its symbolism.

[Keno]

Just ask them while they're high who sells them their drugs and where, then bust the dealers. That's a 'subtle rehab program' everyone can get behind.

Doesn't matter how many people you put in jail. Where there's a law, there's a black market. It probably costs less to run these clinics than it does to keep all the people who visit it in jail.

Didn't say we bust the junkies, just the people who sell junk. What's so unnecessarily expensive about that?

If you bust the people who sell it, what do you think will happen? Everyone will just give up? No. Others will sprout where you just cut them down in more numbers than ever, because then there is an opening for territory (which will also cause many more deaths/crimes). The best idea is to work on a rehab program. Cut the demand and the supply will cut itself.

[Thoronas]

Long post warning.

I worked with one of the needle exchange programs up in Vancouver last winter for a couple of months and after reading this thread I think there needs to be a bit more information put forward about these programs that are not always explicitly stated.

First of all, I did not work with insite (the free injection site in Vancouver) I worked with a group called DEYAS that actually drove around the city to pre-set locations where users can visit us to get free needles, free condoms, vitamins, clean water for their rigs, and other small things to help keep them relatively healthy and disease free. There are several organizations that work with drug users in Vancouver. Now when I say we work with them I mean that we would provide them with the above mentioned items and information UPON THEIR REQUEST.

That's the key thing that is not explained with these sites (or at least not adequately reported) is that supplying safe places for users to do what they do while at the same time providing non-judgemental environment will make it more likely for users to accept information on safe alternatives to what they are doing (ie: shooting heroin). You can't force these people to change, they're fucked-up and they know it. Many of them hate themselves so much but are not yet suicidal so the only thing they know how to do is numb everything. Now when they start to do heroin in an environment that is starkly different from what they're used to doing drugs in they begin to feel something. If nurtured properly these people can turn around their lives, with some help from those who run these places.

Probably the most moving moment in all the time I worked with the social workers at DEYAS was watching a 56 year old homeless heroin addict talk to the worker I was with and hear him talk earnestly about how he was ready to turn his life around and how sick he was of the lifestyle he was leading. A lot of people in this thread are throwing some serious judgemental vibes about this project without understanding what it's trying to accomplish. Some of the people doing heroin in Golden Gate park are probably beyond help, they're too entrenched in what they do and will never come out of it. These programs are not for them. These programs are for people who have made mistakes in their lives but are still capable of acknowledging that fact and getting help and changing.