Samurai SJ

[Resin]

I've been in a few pickup PT setups that are pretty well-built for it. Anything with a 3 mage backline is usually more than enough to use Hasso a good portion of the time (like 50% ish or more). Usually this 3 mage back-line is some combo of RDMs/WHMs/BRDs. Or if you have both a RDM and a WHM they can support Hasso being used a good portion of the PT as well.

In top-of-the-line PTs you can usually use Hasso a good amount even with just a RDM+BRD as healers, just because mobs die so fast and MP isn't often an obstable in those types of PTs.

Then with a RDM or WHM PL, which isn't all too uncommon lately, you can use it often in just about any PT.

Wow, a RDM or WHM PL...What I would give...

[Zilong]

I've been in a few pickup PT setups that are pretty well-built for it. Anything with a 3 mage backline is usually more than enough to use Hasso a good portion of the time (like 50% ish or more). Usually this 3 mage back-line is some combo of RDMs/WHMs/BRDs. Or if you have both a RDM and a WHM they can support Hasso being used a good portion of the PT as well.

In top-of-the-line PTs you can usually use Hasso a good amount even with just a RDM+BRD as healers, just because mobs die so fast and MP isn't often an obstable in those types of PTs.

Then with a RDM or WHM PL, which isn't all too uncommon lately, you can use it often in just about any PT.

Wow, a RDM or WHM PL...What I would give...

I think he meant secondary account boxing, since that's a pretty common practice for people who has access to multiple account.

[RKenshin]

I did, but it can be either or.

Although the whole 2 boxed thing is waaay more common. I can't even convince mages to come PL!

[Amele]

I did, but it can be either or.

Although the whole 2 boxed thing is waaay more common. I can't even convince mages to come PL!

generally, that's because they want xp too XD.

[Max™]

War/Sam mainly here, and I use Seigan a lot because I'm in 3 melee/2brd/Heal parties a lot, so we all tank around a 3rd of the time (since I party with the same melees usually, and we can all count on each other to pull hate) so popping Hasso on for an epeen shot, when just wailing on the mob with doubles and crits ends up with me getting swung at randomly, is just rarely worth it.

The more damage you put out, the more you see Hasso as a sweet deal once in a while, but compared to staying upright and just going balls to the wall, it's rarely a fair trade.

I get antsy with Hasso up, and as someone said, generally try to only use it if I have Seigan ready (preferably with a Third Eye lingering from my last Seigan) because I just know the instant I pop it with zerk up, I've increased the likelihood of me eating a multi-hit WS by like 95% (just my luck >.>) and that sucks as a Taru. T.T

Personally, I don't like Sam/Nin's, because I prefer to know that if I hit 100% TP at 97% on a mob, and nail it with a WS, that some other melee will be able to get hate back just in time for Third Eye, Sam/Nin is holding back full time, great for some things, but in a Meripo, if you're that worried, just use Seigan and enjoy Zerk/DA/Silly WSes.

[Antonidas]

As soon as I broke 10% Haste in gear (way back when), I started pulling hate too regularly for my tastes. I noticed that most pickup PT's are retards who have no haste at all, and I end up tanking simply because they suck.

but it's similar to the reasons that a monk would go mnk/nin instead of mnk/war.

Not really. Monks sub /nin more often than not because the act of doing absolutely nothing JA/TP wise pulls alot of hate. Pimped Mnk/Nins can pull hate just by punching and kicking. With Sam/war, you have options to tone down your damage and thus, your hate. It's not like you need to disengage to correct the problem.

SAM/NIN in the other hand is just a fucking overboard on the whole damage mitigation deal, simply because seigan should be a sufficient method of damage mitigation. You're basically sacrificing berserk, DA, and some random stats to be able to use hasso on a shitty party.

QFT

If you can count on your party to pull hate, there's absolutely no reason to not Sam/war. I go into parties expecting to never use Hasso. That way, I'm not so let down when I'm right. If you can't count on your pt to pull hate, then either that's pretty sad, or your gear is awesome. Or both.
Really stop and think if you're gonna switch to /nin. Know that you'll be pulling alot less hate in general, and that may make the whole act of subbing /nin useless. /Nin shadows are generally inferior to TE for damage mitigation, and the downsides of TE and Utsu overlap. To be fair to /nin though, at least you know how many shadows you have.



The Bottom Line:

What I mainly take from this whole thread is: "Support Job choice (in merit) is largely dictated by the supporting members of your party. The quality of the melee/mages have a direct impact on how much damage you can safely put out. ...But I guess that's applicable to every job and all types of situations."

Since Sam is not built to be the main tank in a party, but does end up pulling hate, how you play Sam in a party is almost entirely dictated to you by the rest of the party based on skill level, gear, and familiarity with other pt members.

If your party is pimped (or 3 mage backline)
Sub /war. No if's, ands, or buts. Ornery mages may have you go /nin because they're lazy, but the correct SJ is in fact /war.

If your party is Unknown
1. Sub /war and see how things play out.
2. Don't Warcry.
3. Seigan 100%.
4. Don't keep Berserk up.

If your party is too Mediocre/Garbage for /war
1. Sub /nin. Seigan only as needed.
OR
2. Leave the party. Sam works best when other DD's are better than you. Don't be afraid to turn down invites because people suck or have shitty gear. It won't be a good party anyways, and especially not for you.

For me, if it gets down to where I have to decide between subbing /nin, or leaving the party because war sub is just too much for the party (if they are pimped, and insist on /nin, different story. What I mean is the case where you know this is not a good party), 9.9 times out of 10 I will leave the party. Call me elitist or whatever, but I'm not that desperate for XP. Good parties make sam better, bad parties make sam an awful DD. I hate being awful.

Shit Is Situational. Don't fight it, you'll lose every time.

[Max™]

Yup, all too often I run into melees who forget that in a merit party, you'll generally be expected to pull hate every so often, and that things tend to work better when all 3(4) melees are sharing tanking duties, as opposed to dumping the load on one or two members exclusively.

I guess in a 4 melee party you can get away with not tanking at all, but what does that say about you as a melee that you're not getting hate enough to worry about damage mitigation?

[Antonidas]

but what does that say about you as a melee that you're not getting hate enough to worry about damage mitigation?

It says you're not a sponge, which makes the mages happy. Baby jesus is crying.

(in the meantime, the DD's think you're a fucking pansy who's not doing your job. Or a cookie-cutter war/nin)