This just popped in my head randomly

[Faris]

I read something somewhere (helpful I know, but I really don't remember) which said going to 'hell' if you commit suicide depends on the way you commit suicide. For example if you jump off a building, on the way down you can change your mind and so you won't necessarily go to hell, but if you shoot yourself in the head with a gun it's "instant" and there's no time to change your mind, so you will go to 'hell'.

That would seem to support Tonko's theory. If you take up smoking because you think "I want to die, so I'll take up smoking to kill myself" it's a sin, if you take up smoking for any other reason, and later think that you don't want to die it's ok.

But I dunno, it probably changes from religion to religion and what policy they particularly feel like adopting on that particular day.

Christianity teaches that you will be forgiven of sins as long as you are truly sorry about them. So I suppose if you tosses yourself off a building, and then deeply and truly regretted it and asked for forgiveness before going splat, then you would probably be off the hook.

I'm sorry, but i dont fully understand how a person can toss themselves off a building, resulting in suicide can be sorry for it, when they are dead. i mean when you're dead there is no sorry...its over. Hence, why suicide will lead you straight to hell. no?

[Blarg]

Read it again, he says if you are sorry BEFORE you hit the ground, so in the few seconds you are falling you become truly sorry of having jumped and realize there is something to live for or something of the sort.

[Faris]

Read it again, he says if you are sorry BEFORE you hit the ground, so in the few seconds you are falling you become truly sorry of having jumped and realize there is something to live for or something of the sort.

My bad, but umm...nevermind, actually. i mean, wait...sorry? you're 5 seconds away from suicide, and nothing, i mean nothing can stop it. its basically done, so how can that be forgiven? dont you think he should said sorry before jumping? its suicide!!!
I dont know, whatever.

[Jer]

It's religion, it doesn't have to make sense.

[Intense]

but what good does smoking do? it has absolutely no benefit to any living creature, or even the environment. So, what is the purpose of smoking, i mean it only kills. slowly.

It makes people think I'm cool! 8)

[kuronosan]

Do you know what catholics consider contraceptives a sin?

The reason is the same as why suicide is a sin.

If you're dead, or if you don't make lots and lots of babies, then your religion doesn't make as much money as it could otherwise.

Man, in my aging ages have I never seen a stupider statement made. What is this world coming to?

If people choose to believe in a God or choose to believe certain things are wrong, it doesn't automatically mean people are using it as a means to make money.

Start separating Religion from "Man" please. Religions aren't the problem, and religion or religious belief isn't the problem - stupid fucking people are. Quit hating on spirituality just because there's "Zero evidence" when there's just about as much evidence in Science (albeit more concrete evidence exists in scientific study). You can easily debate the existence of God by using Scientific and Philosophical proofs. Permit me, as I will prove using 'scientific theory' and philosophy that God must exist in some form:

a) First, in order to believe that God does not exist, an Athiest would have to acknowledge that God exists, because:
b) You cannot believe that something does not exist if it does not exist, therefore:
c) Believing that something does not exist must mean that one consciously acknowledges its existence in some form.
d) If you believe in something, therefore, it must exist, because you cannot believe something does not exist without first acknowledge its existence.

So, there we have it. Cogito ergo sum. You can't claim atheism, for example, and say you don't believe in God or in a God's existence... because in order to do that you must first acknowledge that he does exist. Otherwise you couldn't deny his existence.

So whether he exists in the way the Church sees him or there is no God, he does exist in our minds. In that case, you could apply this kind of logic to anything. You can choose to not believe in Scientology... but Scientology exists because there are people who do believe it.

Devil's Advocate - Since Scientology is pretty much made up, that could also mean the religion I believe in is also made up... but considering millions upon millions of people in all religions believe in the same basic doctrines (Love thy neighbor, live a meaningful life, show appreciation to your deity) and Scientology is the only one founded off of money... you can't just say religion is bad because of misguided morons.

So, now that I've rambled... quit the bullshit speeches about how religion only exists to brainwash people. Religion is to spirituality as Communism is to politics. It's a good idea that a lot of stupid people poorly execute to their advantage... which is the fault of human nature.

[Neosutra]

I like how religion is sees so much abuse on the internet, but say anything that could possibly be construed as anti-gay and you get the entire homosexual inquisition coming after you.

Homosexuality is real-- Religion is merely a theory with zero evidence. The internet is full of theory-hating realists whom happen to be Atheistic/Agnostic.

That mere theory with zero evidence warned about homosexuality thousands of years ago. I love how you discredit religion, but oh wow, homosexuality = two thumbs up! its just dick in ass, man..or mouth..or both.

You cant be that stupid and still have the capability to have typed that on your own.

[Neosutra]

Do you know what catholics consider contraceptives a sin?

The reason is the same as why suicide is a sin.

If you're dead, or if you don't make lots and lots of babies, then your religion doesn't make as much money as it could otherwise.

Man, in my aging ages have I never seen a stupider statement made. What is this world coming to?

If people choose to believe in a God or choose to believe certain things are wrong, it doesn't automatically mean people are using it as a means to make money.

Start separating Religion from "Man" please. Religions aren't the problem, and religion or religious belief isn't the problem - stupid fucking people are. Quit hating on spirituality just because there's "Zero evidence" when there's just about as much evidence in Science (albeit more concrete evidence exists in scientific study). You can easily debate the existence of God by using Scientific and Philosophical proofs. Permit me, as I will prove using 'scientific theory' and philosophy that God must exist in some form:

a) First, in order to believe that God does not exist, an Athiest would have to acknowledge that God exists, because:
b) You cannot believe that something does not exist if it does not exist, therefore:
c) Believing that something does not exist must mean that one consciously acknowledges its existence in some form.
d) If you believe in something, therefore, it must exist, because you cannot believe something does not exist without first acknowledge its existence.

So, there we have it. Cogito ergo sum. You can't claim atheism, for example, and say you don't believe in God or in a God's existence... because in order to do that you must first acknowledge that he does exist. Otherwise you couldn't deny his existence.

So whether he exists in the way the Church sees him or there is no God, he does exist in our minds. In that case, you could apply this kind of logic to anything. You can choose to not believe in Scientology... but Scientology exists because there are people who do believe it.

Devil's Advocate - Since Scientology is pretty much made up, that could also mean the religion I believe in is also made up... but considering millions upon millions of people in all religions believe in the same basic doctrines (Love thy neighbor, live a meaningful life, show appreciation to your deity) and Scientology is the only one founded off of money... you can't just say religion is bad because of misguided morons.

So, now that I've rambled... quit the bullshit speeches about how religion only exists to brainwash people. Religion is to spirituality as Communism is to politics. It's a good idea that a lot of stupid people poorly execute to their advantage... which is the fault of human nature.

1. You sir, need to retake a class is Logical analysis. As claiming something isnt real does not facilitate it having to be real at one point in time, as you are denying the validity of the idea of a god, and the idea of a god is the tangible premis under debate(as tangible as an idea can be). Your premis a through d is nothing more then circular logic with your own previous(and illogical) conclusions restated over in each line.

2. Scientology has nothing to do with science, are you that retarded? Scientology is just another fad religion, with slightly less followers then the bigger cults(aka christianity). And you cant call Scientology all bad and based on money and all other religions as do gooders when they all have the exact same flaws.

3. Your 3rd statement is that religion is a good idea, but people screw it up... I agree people screw up the good intentions of religion, but would disagree that creating fictional beings as explainations for physical phenoma is a "good idea", but that is an entirely different topic. (cue religioes reply "its not fictitious! thats insulting and degrading!").

[Khamsin]

I was with him until the "just as much proof in science as religion" and by the time I got to "you can't believe something does not exist unless it exists" I stopped reading.

There is a lot more proof in science than religion. In fact, everything in science has either been proven true, or hasn't been proven wrong. So, to a degree, religion has some leeway in that some of it hasn't been proven wrong. As such, those aspects of religion that haven't been proven wrong deserve as much credibility as those aspects of science that hasn't been proven wrong (but yet not proven right). However, there is still certain reason to believe that the scientific explanation makes more sense than the religious one for many cases.

As for believing that something does not exist means it exists... I believe that there is no blue three-eyed monster under my bed. But, in order to believe that, it must be there. So if I check under my bed, will I find it because I don't believe it exists? The idea of something does not equate to existence.

My personal beliefs lie within agnosticism, as I do not know whether God or god(s) are real, or if they are, how many or what religion they are. I don't deny the possibility, as I'm not an atheist. I don't have a gut feeling that they may exist, either, as I'm not a theist. I'm just an agnostic. If I saw evidence either way, I wouldn't be ashamed to put due faith in it. But as it stands, I don't know. However, I do know that there's more proof in science than religion, and that it is possible to believe that nonexistent things don't exist.

[layoneil]

a) First, in order to believe that God does not exist, an Athiest would have to acknowledge that God exists, because:
b) You cannot believe that something does not exist if it does not exist, therefore:
c) Believing that something does not exist must mean that one consciously acknowledges its existence in some form.
d) If you believe in something, therefore, it must exist, because you cannot believe something does not exist without first acknowledge its existence.

So, there we have it. Cogito ergo sum. You can't claim atheism, for example, and say you don't believe in God or in a God's existence... because in order to do that you must first acknowledge that he does exist. Otherwise you couldn't deny his existence.

that is such a load of crap, you can do that to defend any ridiculous concept. replace God with say Kryptonite, if your line of reasoning works, than Kryptonite also must exist for the same reason.

what exists is that people have a concept of an entity greater than humans, essentially that's the concept of God, whether it is presented by an organized religion or believed by a single individual. but just because the concept exist doesn't mean the actual entity does or does not exist.

[archibaldcrane]

a) First, in order to believe that God does not exist, an Athiest would have to acknowledge that God exists, because:
b) You cannot believe that something does not exist if it does not exist, therefore:
c) Believing that something does not exist must mean that one consciously acknowledges its existence in some form.
d) If you believe in something, therefore, it must exist, because you cannot believe something does not exist without first acknowledge its existence.

So, there we have it. Cogito ergo sum.

I also don't believe that Unicorns exist. Does that mean they really do?
This argument fails. Hard. Like, harder than the hardest metal known to man, which is of course diamonds.

[Neosutra]

My favorite part is his first comment. "In my all my ages, i havent seen a stupider saying", then he goes on one of the most epic posts of fail on religion I have seen in quite a while.

[Scythiroth]

I really don't think anyone has picked up smoking in order to kill themselves, so I will just agree with it not being counted as suicide. If someone wanted to kill themselves, pretty sure smoking isn't the fastest way to make that happen.

[kuronosan]

You're all full of epic fail. I'm going to go ride in the fields with my unicorns.

Fucking BG.

[Neosutra]

You're all full of epic fail. I'm going to go ride in the fields with my unicorns.

Fucking BG.

My new sig.

[archibaldcrane]

You're all full of epic fail. I'm going to go ride in the fields with my unicorns.

Fucking BG.

; ; you just whooshed us didn't you.

[kuronosan]

A little from column A, a little from column B.

[layoneil]

forgot something.

you can't separate religion from man either, man created religion. moral beliefs and concepts which are the best parts about religion can exist in the absence of religion. religion is all the stuff man created around these concepts so the general populace would follow it.

[Tonko]

The base precepts of most religions are solid, good ways to live your life. The issue is, they get interpreted, and reinterpreted through men, and twisted with the personal preferences and prejudices. Not to mention the pageant & pomp they attach to religion to give themselves a false sense of superiority and try to lend some veil of mysticism to what they're preaching.

Show me a church, that meets in normal clothing (instead of dressing to make themselves look better than others), outside somewhere maybe (rather than a million dollar building, or just wherever they can) and just shoot the shit about philosophical interpretation of their own personal views about how to adhere best tot he tenets set forth, instead of telling people how to live their lives with no concern to the personal quality that religion should represent.

[kuronosan]

In all honesty, it's not possible to do that... because there are unfortunately people who just can't be religious and spiritual. It has to be organized and there has to be rules to govern it.

If it were just a matter of people accepting beliefs and doing things freely and justly, then the world wouldn't work the way it does. There will always be at least 1 person who wants everything to be his way and always 1000 idiots who will follow him blindly.