This just popped in my head randomly

[Kaylia]

forgot something.

you can't separate religion from man either, man created religion. moral beliefs and concepts which are the best parts about religion can exist in the absence of religion. religion is all the stuff man created around these concepts so the general populace would follow it.

It's usually easier to apply those concept when you are religious tho. Atheist reasoning (or someone who doesnt care )usually lead to a more selfish point of view, since it's harder to give meaning to your action.

I personally dont think religions was created to make the general populace follow those moral beliefs. It exist in every society ranging from rain god to something more complex and structured. I seriously doubt a tribe in the middle of nowhere would create a religion to control all 20 habitants. Imp, it exists to fill the gap between the infinite/unknown and us.

[Khamsin]

forgot something.

you can't separate religion from man either, man created religion. moral beliefs and concepts which are the best parts about religion can exist in the absence of religion. religion is all the stuff man created around these concepts so the general populace would follow it.

In the event that religion is a construct, this would be true. If the god(s) of a particular religion (possibly one that no one is aware of) actually do exist, then man and religion would be totally separate.

Say there is a god or gods that watch over us, but nobody in the history of man has ever been aware of them. Perhaps people throughout history have either truly believed in false gods and created false religions around that, or have controlled people by manipulating their fears and superstitions into a false religion meant to subdue them. However, in all the various religions that exist, none reflect the true god(s) and the true tenets those god(s) impose on us, if any.

What if this was the case? Then that unknown-to-man religion and it's god(s) would be very real, but separate from man as no one has ever known the truth of it.

I'm not saying this is what I believe, but with the lack of evidence either way, it's entirely possible that religion is intrinsic and true unto itself regardless of observers. It's also just as likely that religion really is a construct of man and without anyone to believe, it is nothing.

[Neosutra]

forgot something.

you can't separate religion from man either, man created religion. moral beliefs and concepts which are the best parts about religion can exist in the absence of religion. religion is all the stuff man created around these concepts so the general populace would follow it.

It's usually easier to apply those concept when you are religious tho. Atheist reasoning (or someone who doesnt care )usually lead to a more selfish point of view, since it's harder to give meaning to your action.

I personally dont think religions was created to make the general populace follow those moral beliefs. It exist in every society ranging from rain god to something more complex and structured. I seriously doubt a tribe in the middle of nowhere would create a religion to control all 20 habitants. Imp, it exists to fill the gap between the infinite/unknown and us.

There is an evolution to religion that you can observe based on the technological and cultural development of the society that houses it. Religion typically is born as explainations for physical phenoma outside that society's current ability to explain (rain god). These deities then become the blame/blessing for any event that positively/negatively effects that society and thus a relationship is born (prayer, offering, worship). From here typically, the evolution of "personal" dieties are formed in which dieties start taking interest in the outcome of that society and thus protect/watch over it as long as they feel like it.

As the society evolves technologically, the concept of their gods do as well, moving beyond explainations of events and real world interaction, and into the more spiritual and untestable categories. The end result is a society that does not need the gods for explaination of physical phenoma on any order, yet still hold onto them for their believed super natural ability to effect events that are out of human control (death, the future, love, happiness). Humanity has yet to evolve past our own fears, thus our gods will be dragged along with us until the last child on this planet looks up at the stars and sees nothing but burning gas and feels a happy sense of completeness because of this, instead of quiet desperation.

[Khamsin]

Humanity has yet to evolve past our own fears, thus our gods will be dragged along with us until the last child on this planet looks up at the stars and sees nothing but burning gas and feels a happy sense of completeness because of this, instead of quiet desperation.

What about those religions that didn't evolve out of fear and don't attempt to explain the unknown? Or those people who are devoutly religious but fear neither change nor the unknown.

[Neosutra]

Humanity has yet to evolve past our own fears, thus our gods will be dragged along with us until the last child on this planet looks up at the stars and sees nothing but burning gas and feels a happy sense of completeness because of this, instead of quiet desperation.

What about those religions that didn't evolve out of fear and don't attempt to explain the unknown? Or those people who are devoutly religious but fear neither change nor the unknown.

Which religions would those be? And "devoutly religious" and "open minded to change" are oxymorons.

[Khamsin]

Humanity has yet to evolve past our own fears, thus our gods will be dragged along with us until the last child on this planet looks up at the stars and sees nothing but burning gas and feels a happy sense of completeness because of this, instead of quiet desperation.

What about those religions that didn't evolve out of fear and don't attempt to explain the unknown? Or those people who are devoutly religious but fear neither change nor the unknown.

Which religions would those be? And "devoutly religious" and "open minded to change" are oxymorons.

I don't know off the top of my head, but there's bound to be some religion out there not founded in fear. I think it's a pretty bold statement to say that all religions out of the countless ones that have faded in and out of existence over the history of man have all been based on fear of the unknown. Some, sure, but each and every one, 100%? Not even theologists and scholars of historic religions know all the religions that ever existed. Given the odds, it's extremely likely that at least one of them wasn't meant to explain the unknown, control people, or make people feel better about themselves or the afterlife.

[Tricen]

Religion was something a mass populace could agree on, and then it was exploited for money,.

[Saphirea]

Show me a church, that meets in normal clothing (instead of dressing to make themselves look better than others), outside somewhere maybe (rather than a million dollar building, or just wherever they can) and just shoot the shit about philosophical interpretation of their own personal views about how to adhere best tot he tenets set forth, instead of telling people how to live their lives with no concern to the personal quality that religion should represent.

If I can find some of my pictures from the Masses I went to in the Dominican Republic while on mission there; you'd see people meeting in normal clothes, in a building that's nothing more than a concrete slab and four walls.

On an aside and what actually urk's me about Christianity. We're taught to Love our Neighbor. As in as follows::: The Bible, Mark chapter 12 verses 28-31

One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him "Of all the commandments, which is the most important?"

"The most important one," Jesus answered, "is this: Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength. The second is this: Love your neighbour as yourself. There is no commandment greater than these."

But what gets me, is Christians who go around and slander other people; treat them like garbage, do whatever they can to get ahead in life Monday through Friday and then all of a sudden go and act pious on Sunday. I'm a devout Catholic, and I was always taught "Love the sinner yet hate their sin." It's not up to me to pass judgment on my fellow man; it's up to God alone.

I think if more people followed that, then the world would be a happier place and there would be a lot less hatred and senseless persecution.

Think what you might of me as a "Catholic nutjob" or "Religious right-wing" whatever. The Catholic church has stood for 2000 years; it will continue to stand ... I have my beliefs and my Faith.

[Khamsin]

Show me a church, that meets in normal clothing (instead of dressing to make themselves look better than others), outside somewhere maybe (rather than a million dollar building, or just wherever they can) and just shoot the shit about philosophical interpretation of their own personal views about how to adhere best tot he tenets set forth, instead of telling people how to live their lives with no concern to the personal quality that religion should represent.

If I can find some of my pictures from the Masses I went to in the Dominican Republic while on mission there; you'd see people meeting in normal clothes, in a building that's nothing more than a concrete slab and four walls.

On an aside and what actually urk's me about Christianity. We're taught to Love our Neighbor. As in as follows::: The Bible, Mark chapter 12 verses 28-31

One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him "Of all the commandments, which is the most important?"

"The most important one," Jesus answered, "is this: Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength. The second is this: Love your neighbour as yourself. There is no commandment greater than these."

But what gets me, is Christians who go around and slander other people; treat them like garbage, do whatever they can to get ahead in life Monday through Friday and then all of a sudden go and act pious on Sunday. I'm a devout Catholic, and I was always taught "Love the sinner yet hate their sin." It's not up to me to pass judgment on my fellow man; it's up to God alone.

I think if more people followed that, then the world would be a happier place and there would be a lot less hatred and senseless persecution.

Think what you might of me as a "Catholic nutjob" or "Religious right-wing" whatever. The Catholic church has stood for 2000 years; it will continue to stand ... I have my beliefs and my Faith.

But are the people they treat like trash actually their neighbor, or just some random person on the street? Perhaps they love their neighbors, but that's only two households. Screw everyone else.

[Saphirea]

But are the people they treat like trash actually their neighbor, or just some random person on the street? Perhaps they love their neighbors, but that's only two households. Screw everyone else.

The only real example I can give comes from St. Thomas Aquinas: "by committing such a sin in his presence this is inductive scandal in a broad sense."

Meaning if you're around them at anytime. They're your neighbor.

[Blarg]

Show me a church, that meets in normal clothing (instead of dressing to make themselves look better than others), outside somewhere maybe (rather than a million dollar building, or just wherever they can) and just shoot the shit about philosophical interpretation of their own personal views about how to adhere best tot he tenets set forth, instead of telling people how to live their lives with no concern to the personal quality that religion should represent.

If I can find some of my pictures from the Masses I went to in the Dominican Republic while on mission there; you'd see people meeting in normal clothes, in a building that's nothing more than a concrete slab and four walls.

On an aside and what actually urk's me about Christianity. We're taught to Love our Neighbor. As in as follows::: The Bible, Mark chapter 12 verses 28-31

One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him "Of all the commandments, which is the most important?"

"The most important one," Jesus answered, "is this: Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength. The second is this: Love your neighbour as yourself. There is no commandment greater than these."

But what gets me, is Christians who go around and slander other people; treat them like garbage, do whatever they can to get ahead in life Monday through Friday and then all of a sudden go and act pious on Sunday. I'm a devout Catholic, and I was always taught "Love the sinner yet hate their sin." It's not up to me to pass judgment on my fellow man; it's up to God alone.

I think if more people followed that, then the world would be a happier place and there would be a lot less hatred and senseless persecution.

Think what you might of me as a "Catholic nutjob" or "Religious right-wing" whatever. The Catholic church has stood for 2000 years; it will continue to stand ... I have my beliefs and my Faith.

But are the people they treat like trash actually their neighbor, or just some random person on the street? Perhaps they love their neighbors, but that's only two households. Screw everyone else.

What about an apartment building, just how many neighbors do you have to love here, can you hate the ones below and above you?

[Saphirea]

Do the above ones vacuum at three in the morning when you need to be up at six?

[Kaylia]

As the society evolves technologically, the concept of their gods do as well, moving beyond explainations of events and real world interaction, and into the more spiritual and untestable categories. The end result is a society that does not need the gods for explaination of physical phenoma on any order, yet still hold onto them for their believed super natural ability to effect events that are out of human control (death, the future, love, happiness). Humanity has yet to evolve past our own fears, thus our gods will be dragged along with us until the last child on this planet looks up at the stars and sees nothing but burning gas and feels a happy sense of completeness because of this, instead of quiet desperation.

You will never be able to make sense of the "beginning" scientifically, and because of that, religion will always take a certain place in the society. Doesnt really matter how many theories we find in between, there will always be something bigger to support the known scientific reality.¸

Trying to understand the beginning of the universe (broad meaning) from a scientific or religious perspective is just good for headache. There will always be hole in theory.

Religion was something a mass populace could agree on, and then it was exploited for money,.

That's not true. There was a lot of abuse (like there is everywhere), but religion is more for many people.

[Tricen]

Of course, alterior motives though.

[Khamsin]

Show me a church, that meets in normal clothing (instead of dressing to make themselves look better than others), outside somewhere maybe (rather than a million dollar building, or just wherever they can) and just shoot the shit about philosophical interpretation of their own personal views about how to adhere best tot he tenets set forth, instead of telling people how to live their lives with no concern to the personal quality that religion should represent.

If I can find some of my pictures from the Masses I went to in the Dominican Republic while on mission there; you'd see people meeting in normal clothes, in a building that's nothing more than a concrete slab and four walls.

On an aside and what actually urk's me about Christianity. We're taught to Love our Neighbor. As in as follows::: The Bible, Mark chapter 12 verses 28-31

One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him "Of all the commandments, which is the most important?"

"The most important one," Jesus answered, "is this: Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength. The second is this: Love your neighbour as yourself. There is no commandment greater than these."

But what gets me, is Christians who go around and slander other people; treat them like garbage, do whatever they can to get ahead in life Monday through Friday and then all of a sudden go and act pious on Sunday. I'm a devout Catholic, and I was always taught "Love the sinner yet hate their sin." It's not up to me to pass judgment on my fellow man; it's up to God alone.

I think if more people followed that, then the world would be a happier place and there would be a lot less hatred and senseless persecution.

Think what you might of me as a "Catholic nutjob" or "Religious right-wing" whatever. The Catholic church has stood for 2000 years; it will continue to stand ... I have my beliefs and my Faith.

But are the people they treat like trash actually their neighbor, or just some random person on the street? Perhaps they love their neighbors, but that's only two households. Screw everyone else.

What about an apartment building, just how many neighbors do you have to love here, can you hate the ones below and above you?

In any living arrangement, I only consider the people living to your immediate left and right on the same side of the street or hall as neighbors. Those living across, above, or below you are not neighbors. However, if you live on a farm where the next guy down the street is so far away he's out of sight, he's still your neighbor if he's the closest one to you on your side of the street. If you live on a private drive and are the only ones on your street, then go to the end of your private drive to the main street, and find the next guy down that street that's on the same side as your private drive.

[Tonko]

Beautifully put Saphirea, I wish more of those who identify themselves as religious felt as you do, then most of us wouldn't be so jaded towards organized religion.

[Remyo]

Show me a church, that meets in normal clothing (instead of dressing to make themselves look better than others), outside somewhere maybe (rather than a million dollar building, or just wherever they can) and just shoot the shit about philosophical interpretation of their own personal views about how to adhere best tot he tenets set forth, instead of telling people how to live their lives with no concern to the personal quality that religion should represent.

Come to my church and you'll see just that. Except we do meet in a building, it's old though, been there for a while and we fix it up as best we can when need be. Noone dresses up except a few old folks and the pastor. the church band plays in ripped jeans and sandals or w/e, noone cares how you are dressed just cares about you being there. Some days we get a sermon that is relevant to something the congregation needs, sometimes we just sing, some times its half and half. We do things to help our community and do events, this sunday we're having a early thanksgiving potluck dinner for everyone. Noone looks down on ppl if they don't come everyday, but they're always happy when you do come. if you are ever around here shoot me a PM anyones welcome.

[Tricen]

You're not allowed to think for yourself when it comes to religion. Remember, your god is a greedy god!

[kuronosan]

Show me a church, that meets in normal clothing (instead of dressing to make themselves look better than others), outside somewhere maybe (rather than a million dollar building, or just wherever they can) and just shoot the shit about philosophical interpretation of their own personal views about how to adhere best tot he tenets set forth, instead of telling people how to live their lives with no concern to the personal quality that religion should represent.

If I can find some of my pictures from the Masses I went to in the Dominican Republic while on mission there; you'd see people meeting in normal clothes, in a building that's nothing more than a concrete slab and four walls.

On an aside and what actually urk's me about Christianity. We're taught to Love our Neighbor. As in as follows::: The Bible, Mark chapter 12 verses 28-31

One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him "Of all the commandments, which is the most important?"

"The most important one," Jesus answered, "is this: Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength. The second is this: Love your neighbour as yourself. There is no commandment greater than these."

But what gets me, is Christians who go around and slander other people; treat them like garbage, do whatever they can to get ahead in life Monday through Friday and then all of a sudden go and act pious on Sunday. I'm a devout Catholic, and I was always taught "Love the sinner yet hate their sin." It's not up to me to pass judgment on my fellow man; it's up to God alone.

I think if more people followed that, then the world would be a happier place and there would be a lot less hatred and senseless persecution.

Think what you might of me as a "Catholic nutjob" or "Religious right-wing" whatever. The Catholic church has stood for 2000 years; it will continue to stand ... I have my beliefs and my Faith.

This is exactly how I feel.

[Kaylia]

Beautifully put Saphirea, I wish more of those who identify themselves as religious felt as you do, then most of us wouldn't be so jaded towards organized religion.

A lot do actually. It's just that moron are usually louder and make more noise than other. Like everywhere....