Will WotG be FFXI's BC?

[Luto]

With the upcoming changes to all jobs, along with the addition of two new jobs, you have to wonder how much the game play mechanics will change. From the sounds of it, it may not just be a minor change here or there, but rather large changes to all jobs. So my question is: will this ultimately be FFXI's downfall? When Blizzard released the new WoW expansion, the changes brought to the table alienated a lot of the player base and many left. Will the same happen for FFXI? (Edit) Don't mean for this to turn into a FFXI vs WoW debate, I'm more making a comparison of another MMO (albeit one I'm not that knowledgable in [sidenote: no "ffxi rite?" jokes!]) that went through massive changes and FFXI which will be going through large changes to the jobs.

What are you views/opinions/wishes/expectations?

(Cait Sith meme is punishable by death in this thread.)

(Multiple edits due to me not being able to read...)

[SephYuyX]

People who hated this game left long ago, releasing another expansion wont change anything. The only people who currently play are people who are addicted, if anything this expansion will bring more people in.

[nightmaric]

How can anyone say with a straight face that BC was WoW's downfall? As a result of BC, didn't WoW gain like 2 million more subscribers? Aren't they now pushing close to the 10 million player mark?

But that's for another time and another place....

Yes, I predict like WoW - a lot of people will QQ about things changing. A lot of MMO players do.not.like.change. and it's usually them that cry the loudest.

[Xanthe]

I'll find myself hard-pressed to quit over changes in mechanics. My #1 interest in the game has been the plethora (yes, it actually works here!) of quality storylines, so as long as SE keeps up the good work in that department I'll be happy.

[Thistle]

So my question is: will this ultimately be FFXI's downfall?

I highly doubt it. Not only do people generally sound happy about the info thus far, at least on Midgar there are a crapload of new players (real new ones, not returned players). The few I talk to say Wings is their reason for trying FFXI.

On a personal level, all I ask from FFXI is to be kept busy (fun is an added bonus~). It sounds like Campaign will do that for me. Casual? No XP loss? XP gain? It sounds like a 24/7 version of Besieged! Count me in.

[klvino]

I'm still waiting for a Felucca-Trammel reference.

[Rocl]

This is the stupidest thing I've ever heard lol

[Rowe]

Well Burning Crusade was WoW's first expansion. FFXI first released in Japan then the US had Rise of the Zilart as it's 1st expansion but it was bundled with the US release, then it had Chains of Promathia 2nd, Treasures of Aht Urhgan 3rd and now Wings of the Goddess as it's 4th. The true FFXI down fall came with CoP, it drove a lot of people to WoW. FFXI weathered that storm and has made a bit of a resurgence with ToAU and I see more good changes coming with WotG.

*I started playing about 2-3 weeks before the PS2 US release so I am not entirely sure about the facts of the US PC release back in Oct-Nov of that previous year.

[Spekkio]

correct me if i'm wrong as i'm not up on WoW, but with the release of BC, they upped the lvl cap on the game, did they not? this turned once difficult areas like molten core (that is one of the harder instances, right? i just remember that name and people mentioning it in this context) can now be easily slaughtered by a group of lvl 70 players.

if with this release, SE renders many once prestigious accomplishments (salvage and king armor, complete af2 from a rare set, etc.) MH gear, and levels the playing field between new players freshly reaching 75 and those who are multi-year vets of 75 with HNM experience etc, then yes, they might alienate their playerbase and lose members. historically SE has not shown this to be the case, by implementing merits which take time and planning rather than simply upping the level cap and invalidating all old gear. while i won't be so bold as to say in absolutes that it will or won't hurt the playerbase, my inclination is that it will not.

[nightmaric]

Yeah, while I hate making this turn into a WoW to FFXI comparison (even though the OP started it)...

While BC did make those OLD dungeons and OLD gear obsolete, they did add new end-game dungeons and new high levelled gear accordingly. One thing WoW does do correctly is scale gear progressively.

[Aikar]

Well Burning Crusade was WoW's first expansion. FFXI first released in Japan then the US had Rise of the Zilart as it's 1st expansion but it was bundled with the US release, then it had Chains of Promathia 2nd, Treasures of Aht Urhgan 3rd and now Wings of the Goddess as it's 4th. The true FFXI down fall came with CoP, it drove a lot of people to WoW. FFXI weathered that storm and has made a bit of a resurgence with ToAU and I see more good changes coming with WotG.

*I started playing about 2-3 weeks before the PS2 US release so I am not entirely sure about the facts of the US PC release back in Oct-Nov of that previous year.

Huh? CoP was the best freaking expansion we've had.

Now, if we could trade this piece of crap ToAU for something better :/ (and no I'm not being sarcastic)

Yes CoP made some people leave and cry, those are the WoW players who NEEDED to go. CoP was a blessing to this game.

[Luto]

But, assuming changes are made. /NIN is no longer a viable subjob. RDM gets tweaked like BRD did so it can't tank anymore. Big changes like that.

And sorry if what I said came out wrong, I didn't mean WoW lost all it's players due to BC, more like a large portion were pissed they had to respec, all their old work was turned into nothing, etc.

[Rocl]

But, assuming changes are made. /NIN is no longer a viable subjob. RDM gets tweaked like BRD did so it can't tank anymore. Big changes like that.

And sorry if what I said came out wrong, I didn't mean WoW lost all it's players due to BC, more like a large portion were pissed they had to respec, all their old work was turned into nothing, etc.

I would w so hard

[DAKPluto]

Seriously. CoP put in an element (at the time) of actually needing more than the skill of a blind monkey to actually complete.


Let's be honest, if you really really wanted too, it wouldn't be that hard to take a Level 1 character and have them ride the backs of people all the way to sky and DM earring (barring any min. level requirements, can't remember if there was any, but you get the point.)

However when CoP came out, you needed everyone to actually know what the hell they were doing. Of course now it's like the most dumbed down idiotic version ever....but meh.

[Rowe]

SE is a company who's business model for FFXI relies on a subscription service therefore success or failure of an expansion is measured in the number of new paying customers is attracts or existing paying customers it retains. Whether another player believes the quality or dedication or whatever it is about a player who quits was lacking therefore they were not deserving to play the game is irrelevant. SE's priority is maintaining or expanding it's customer base. It must therefore tailor it's content based on that premise.

[Kyreth]

To destroy a game's population, an expansion has to literally rip up the status quo and chuck it in the trash.

BC did do that. So did CoP, because both severed a good chunk of the game from itself. Level cap frustration in CoP, the "everything you did up to now is crap" in BC.

I think Square-Enix learned from that, though. ToAU got us a great deal more interaction with the playerbase, and they've been steadily tweaking and polishing up old jobs over time as well. Scholar looks incredibly useful. Dancer looks interesting and different. Campaign seems to be taking a lot of what players liked in ToAU and adapting it to the "old world" storyline.

I don't see WoTG as being an expansion that upsets the balance (OK, maybe of space and time, but not the players).

[Rowe]

A good expansion needs to balance challenge and fun. CoP was heavy on the challenge and yes there is satisfaction in getting through it but there was no fun in it at all for me or the 1st group I did it with or the 2nd group I helped and did it with. I think SE has now tried to find more of the fun things they can do to make a game what it should be, challenging and fun.

[Sykes]

And sorry if what I said came out wrong, I didn't mean WoW lost all it's players due to BC, more like a large portion were pissed they had to respec, all their old work was turned into nothing, etc.

People were mad, yes. But the expansion changed the game mechanics so much that for many people it was almost like playing a completely new game. Anyone who didn't leave in disgust (which, while there was a lot of moaning and groaning, there were far more new players than players that left) had new goals to work towards and significant new content to explore. The only real significant problem that people encountered was the shift in raid strategy. Going from 20- and 40- man raids to 10- and 25-man raids broke up many guilds. Blizzard's BC strategy was so successful that they are raising the level cap to 80 in the next expansion which will surely mean a pretty similar shift.

Despite the success, however, I don't think that obsoleting not only gear but entire regions with each expansion is sustainable. I think that the right mix is somewhere between WoW and FFXI. The game mechanics should change significantly in each expansion, but while we shouldn't still be fighting over gear dropping from the first expansion, we shouldn't obsolete every single piece of gear and every previous zone every expansion either.

[Lordender]

Imo it all depends on what comes out in this expansion, ToAU started out great for those who had burn jobs and were all into assaults then it started to slack off for awhile especially after the hydra update till around salvage was changed for the good. I think many changes need to be done with the battle system, as mentioned above in order to do away with /nin it would require alot of changes.

you couldn't just do away with /nin without having other changes in place. SE would have to either make seigan way more consistant than being so random for other melee's or add new defensive side traits to melee jobs, defense/vit would have to be changed around to mean alot more, PLD's would either need a hasso ability to actually gain more enmity when hit while its active or hate would have to be largely decreased when hit.

[ringthree]

But, assuming changes are made. /NIN is no longer a viable subjob. RDM gets tweaked like BRD did so it can't tank anymore. Big changes like that.

And sorry if what I said came out wrong, I didn't mean WoW lost all it's players due to BC, more like a large portion were pissed they had to respec, all their old work was turned into nothing, etc.

SE has been very, very careful with the nerf bat since the Ranger debacle. I HIGHLY doubt they are going to do anything but buffs. As for Mazurka tanking, even players knew that cheap, thats why there wasn't a major uproar after it was removed.