Will WotG be FFXI's BC?

[Arvin]

WotG won't hurt the game, expansions will only benefit a mmorpg. It happened on WoW and it happened on FFXI.

CoP

I cant remember shit from over a year ago, FFXI was such a blur to me which is sad since I played it so much. I just remember starting to dislike it around the few months into ToAU. Only shit things I remember from CoP was all the level capped stuff I disliked and how sea wasn't 100% on all those pop drops. Missions were alright

[Xavier]

WotG won't hurt the game, expansions will only benefit a mmorpg. It happened on WoW and it happened on FFXI.

CoP

I cant remember shit from over a year ago, FFXI was such a blur to me which is sad since I played it so much. I just remember starting to dislike it around the few months into ToAU. Only shit things I remember from CoP was all the level capped stuff I disliked and how sea wasn't 100% on all those pop drops. Missions were alright

The only thing I remember from CoP is how it split BG in half.

Expansions can ruin games, but I enjoyed ToAU in a lighthearted way and WotG seems like it will offer a similar experience.

[Lordwafik]

WotG won't hurt the game, expansions will only benefit a mmorpg. It happened on WoW and it happened on FFXI.

CoP

I cant remember shit from over a year ago, FFXI was such a blur to me which is sad since I played it so much. I just remember starting to dislike it around the few months into ToAU. Only shit things I remember from CoP was all the level capped stuff I disliked and how sea wasn't 100% on all those pop drops. Missions were alright

I'll give you a refresher! :D

CoP is good (now) because they made it easy and removed a lot of annoying things, and I think they fired half the stupid dev team that was working on it back then.

Also CoP was the time when if your job was good, you feared it because you were afraid of being "too good" since the mindset of the dev team was "If it's too good, cut it's head off" rather than fixing the solution.

The unfortunate thing for FF's sake, is they released CoP rushed (they wanted to shelf it around the time of WoW's launch) and they kept shooting themselves in the foot by nerfing a job, or "adjusting" something, or launching very half complete / behind production schedule zones , and lackluster patches (who remembers the sea patch that was nothing but letting you go through an alternate door? )

While CoP did add some nice things (igquira/diorama abjrurtnbhafsnillis/extremely unique jailer fights), it did also show that SE can fuck up, and they can fuck up huge

Look at Spider-Dan's ossom summary of what CoP was, horrible expansion.

Fingers crossed is WotG follows treasures+RoZ (for content/gameplay) and CoP (for story), and not more leniant towards one or the other.

[Arvin]

Time travel worked for us, it'll probably be good for FFXI. storyline in caverns of time was kinda horribly put together and just re-used the final WC3 mission as a raid instance but it was still pretty good.

[eva00r]

I quited FFXI once because of CoP damn it.
While I enjoyed ToA ... and expecting WoG should be at least enjoyable as ToA.

[Lordender]

Every FFXI event that goes by with no helpful tips on how to stop the 2hrs of AV crushing everyone makes CoP fail even harder. SE fucked up the balance of the game a lot in CoP, it was a huge fuck up. I think any endgame balance this game had prior to CoP was ruined by CoP.

[layoneil]

I think any endgame balance this game had prior to CoP was ruined by CoP.

i'm no fan of CoP but you're just looking for a scapegoat at this point. pre-CoP endgame was okay because the population was small. a small population can handle the crappy drop rates and the server-wide competition for 3 Kings and Sky pop items.

while CoP did nothing to help, Kings and Sky was on a path to ruin as the population outgrew the system it was built on.

[Ryko]

I think any endgame balance this game had prior to CoP was ruined by CoP.

i'm no fan of CoP but you're just looking for a scapegoat at this point. pre-CoP endgame was okay because the population was small. a small population can handle the crappy drop rates and the server-wide competition for 3 Kings and Sky pop items.

while CoP did nothing to help, Kings and Sky was on a path to ruin as the population outgrew the system it was built on.

Agreed. I pretty much ignored CoP until I either had to do it or was pretty much given essentially free/easy rides through but people act as if we didn't see aery go from 40 - 140 in the time it took to flesh out. Also, it might have been rather inconvenient but limbus was pretty much the most straightforward and beneficial end-game activities in the game both in boss rewards and other items to pick up on the way there. With the alterations that came around later CoP (in retrospect) is honestly not all that bad in terms of what it offered to the end-game community (and no I'm not acting like them fixing it means that we didn't have a long ass time with essentially bullshit but hey, just look at einherjar and their "cut out the middleman" approach to fixing salvage as opposed to being more kind on individual mob drop rates. Not to mention the TOAU HNMs make COP mobs look generous in comparison).

[Lordender]

i'm no fan of CoP but you're just looking for a scapegoat at this point. pre-CoP endgame was okay because the population was small. a small population can handle the crappy drop rates and the server-wide competition for 3 Kings and Sky pop items.

while CoP did nothing to help, Kings and Sky was on a path to ruin as the population outgrew the system it was built on.

imo COP was the start of /nin dominance in the endgame, homam gear, pld/nin, elegy, slow II, pld changes creates huge balance issues that started in CoP and progressed through ToAU. There is something seriously wrong with the balance of a game when you can hold level 95 mobs with a few people, it shouldn't be possible. Endgame balance has been out of the door for quite sometime which is pretty funny considering how much SE talks about game balance in those interviews.

[layoneil]

imo COP was the start of /nin dominance in the endgame, homam gear, pld/nin, elegy, slow II, pld changes creates huge balance issues that started in CoP and progressed through ToAU. There is something seriously wrong with the balance of a game when you can hold level 95 mobs with a few people, it shouldn't be possible. Endgame balance has been out of the door for quite sometime which is pretty funny considering how much SE talks about game balance in those interviews.

put the pipe down? how is Slow II CoP?

we were doing PLD/NIN long before Homam, we developed PLD/NIN for Fafnir/Nidhogg when we were the only NA LS that was in DA and on really good days JP didn't even show up at NA hours.

wtf is "endgame balance", before CoP you just threw more RNGs and BLMs at stuff.

the game has had and still has a bunch of problems, but it's very LOL if you claim most of it has its roots in CoP.

[ronin sparthos]

I find it funny everyone says CoP was such a complete failure when the gear offered in that expansion pack are some of the most popular sets of armor in the game. Weskits, Homam, AF+1, Sea Torques, JSE etc - all brought to you by CoP. The Grand Wyrms suck, but Tiamats still highly contested (at least on my server it is.), people are farming Bahamut 2.0 all the time and Ouryu comes with that deal, id hardly say that CoP was a failure even if Vrtra and Jormugand arent the most rewarding monsters ever.

CoP was not a major failure, id argue it fleshed out the game even though the masochistic factor to get things was a bit high. Limbus, ENMs, Pop NMs and instanced HNM fights were a step in the right direction: even if the masses cant stop bitching the story mode wasnt a walk in the park, it paid well.

Heres to hoping the Wings of the Goddess plays like CoP with some of the frills of Aht Urhgan.

[Lordender]

put the pipe down? how is Slow II CoP?

we were doing PLD/NIN long before Homam, we developed PLD/NIN for Fafnir/Nidhogg when we were the only NA LS that was in DA and on really good days JP didn't even show up at NA hours.

wtf is "endgame balance", before CoP you just threw more RNGs and BLMs at stuff.

the game has had and still has a bunch of problems, but it's very LOL if you claim most of it has its roots in CoP.

you fail at reading, i said cop was the start of this games unbalance and it progressed thru toau, nice try though.

[layoneil]

even if the masses cant stop bitching the story mode wasnt a walk in the park, it paid well.

there was a very very long stretch of time when Virtues were not 100% and AV is still WTF. that part of CoP fails really bad and has nothing to do with the difficulty of the story.

you fail at reading, i said cop was the start of this games unbalance and it progressed thru toau, nice try though.

and how does CoP predate RNGs and Fafnir/Nidhogg? don't post if you're not even going to try.

[Gulkeeva]

(Too lazy to read entire thread!)

I heard some ffxi players tell me that in WOTG SE plans not to add any form of "engame" type gear upgrades, but pretty much keep the same level of "gear" with maybe just graphic changes change a few stats around etc, no level cap raise either.

Anyway I'll probably wait it out a bit to see how it is watching videos/stories of the expansion before getting it personnaly. Although... mithra dancer/scholar does look kinda hot, can't wait to see what kinda mods start comming out for those 2 o_O

[Ishido]

OP is fairly ridiculous, BC boosted the amount of players on WoW. It's hard to compare expansions between the two games though, FFXI is going on its 4th while WoW's 2nd is still most likely 6 months+ away. FFXI's have had less content in them, and have never really obsoleted any content, so they do less to affect the status quo.

I'm guessing WotG will boost population a little bit with people coming back to the game to see how it is, and others starting up because of a new expansion, and others will leave because they are tired of the game or disappointed by the expansion.

And since it seems like everyone is giving their opinion on CoP I figure I will do. It was a good idea implemented in a bad way. Most of the missions and BCs were nice, but being level capped just made it troublesome to do. Sea wasn't bad but... there were pretty much no drops. Pop items were rare, usable gear was rarer, and the things you did see, no one wanted after a handful of kills. Couple that with an end boss who was killable for ~3 months and whose pop was random, and you have yourself some awesome (sarcasm) endgame content.

ToAU looked like a step in the right direction in almost every way with instances, varied content, viable alternatives to gear, and no forced level capping (that I'm aware of). WotG will probably be a solid expansion, though I think anyone hoping for something better than sky might be disappointed.

Also to the topic of recent posters, I personally liked the difficulty of pre-nerf CoP missions, the only thing that sucked was buying that set of gear you were using a year ago to do them. Sea just failed overall, and most of the time an expansion will be judged heavily on the endgame content. Especially on an endgame board.

[BRP]

Whenever I hear the testimony of people quiting it has more to do with how CoP didn't change the game rather than what it was. People were upset about inflation/RMT, job unbalance, and long-exp grinds, things that were present in RotZ, if no more so(well, not inflation). SE scared people away more than the expansion itself.

[Spider-Dan]

I find it funny everyone says CoP was such a complete failure when the gear offered in that expansion pack are some of the most popular sets of armor in the game. Weskits, Homam, AF+1, Sea Torques, JSE etc - all brought to you by CoP.

It's true that there is some nice gear in CoP. However, the actual gameplay content (read: the way you go about obtaining said gear) is largely broken and stupid. With the glaring exception of Limbus (the diamond in the pile of trash that is CoP, which not coincidentally drops an enormous portion of the desirable gear for said expansion), most of the CoP loot design was designed to alienate the playerbase. So you're saying that I can pay exactly the same amount for an hourglass for 33-50% of the Dynamis time, in order to earn the same loot that I could in cities, or maybe a chance at an "upgrade" that results in no significant stat increase (other than a shiny white box)? Gee, where do I sign up?

In contrast, the only area of TAU that is CoP-like in its complete lack of any redeeming qualities is Einherjar; you can tell how spoiled we've gotten by TAU, because if Einherjar were released instead of Limbus, people would have shrugged and accepted it as par for the course. If Einherjar and Limbus were swapped, TAU would be essentially total win and CoP would be essentially total fail.

[BRP]

ENMs were awesome. A lot of good or at least mediocre gear came from that.

[Max™]

ENMs were awesome. A lot of good or at least mediocre gear came from that.

Maneater's and Blau Dolches and Martial Bhuj's oh my!

Fuck yo P.Harpes and Bando's and Gaiter's as well.

[Ryko]

Can we stop acting like the gear an activity has to offer isn't practically 100% of the motivation to do it and a really good indicator of the bullshit people will put up with to do so? Most people don't do einherjar because some BLM pants, a loldrg spear and some gear with +slow on it is just not worth it. On the other hand people did and still would put up with the crap in salvage (like abyssmal drop rates) because that gear is widely regarded by most as being worth it (though I still stand by the notion that a large number of players only do it because they want to be seen in something new, not that I can necessarily blame them. I see the ares set as almost completely worthless with the body and legs having exceptions that lie somewhere in the realm of never being relevant to me but I digress.) COP's gear offered is pretty much top-notch across the board (even something as simple as offering DD's a haste belt option that didn't stick them in jugner against chinese rmt and japanese RMT day in day out was big), and with the added convenience obtaining it now that's pretty much the bottom line.