Mnk in Salvage

[Elipse]

I have been given access to one of our LS mnks accounts to use for salvage whenever hes not around. I'll preface this by saying I'm a 75 nin/75 pld so I'm very comfortable tanking things. I have already used mnk to tank chariots and won without too many issues. My question more or less relates to "How should I be optimally setting up?" for tanking chariots. Our single mnk tank chariot wins have put us somewhere around the 20-25 minute mark. Usually closer to the latter. I've read about groups who are dual mnk tanking and killing in 7-8 minutes, so this leads me to believe that single tanking it should die in about 17-18 minutes (time added for shadow casting etc). I could be wrong on this, I'm just going off what others post as "fact".

One thing I've rarely if ever noticed are things like counters going off. I always got the impression from peoples posts that mnk counters so often, which doesn't seem to be the case. Fair enough this mnk in question has no counter merits but thats like 5% (1/20 hits) isn't it? In the last couple chariot fights I can only remember countering once. Are there any specific gear choices that mnks might be using that seem so obvious to a mnk but I wouldn't think to consider? Or are people simply overstating the power of counter?

Moving on from counters, how about food? I have been using meat on lower floors and sushi for the chariot fights. Do other mnks use meat or is it best to stick with sushi for the bosses?

Songs: Double March

Gear:

Destroyers
Turban
Shura body
melee gloves
byakkos haidate
fuma's
Black belt
Cerberus mantle
raja's/flame
brutal/triumph
Chiv chain

This is what I have been TP'ing in and WS in. Is there any particular gear slots you'd change for something else or anything I should pick up for him to tank with?

100 Fists: What is the optimal strategy here? Just blood tank it? Should I be using asuran fists every time I hit 100TP or just swinging the whole time?

Any other tips that I should keep in mind to help speed up the fights?

I know I have asked a bunch of questions. Thank you in advance for any advice.

Sincerly,
The guy with no mnk experience

[Zosi]

Well, when you're solo tanking, you're losing a lot more of your swing chances to casting Utsusemi than if you had a co-tank to trade hate with. Whoever doesn't have hate gets more uninterrupted swings, so it works out to be more damage than just twice that of a single MNK solo tanking.

[Wildman]

I've tanked a few chariots on mnk now, pretty easy with good support.

First off, i'd swap at least Ohat and Potent Belt in for WS.

I like to use sushi also for chariots since i go with a haste setup.

Counters are enhanced by using counterstance and af2 boots (macro'd in only for counterstance). Additionally shadows are absorbed before a counter, so the only chance you have to counter are when shadows are down.

When I 2hr i like to save up focus, dodge, chakra etc and not use shadows unless mages are low on mp or i'm about to die or see a bad TP move coming up. Additionally my group likes to save hundred fists until the chariots HP < 20%.

We typically take in 3 mnk/nins for clearing runs, but I tyipcally end up tanking full time and have not had a problem with it.

[ringthree]

I have been given access to one of our LS mnks accounts to use for salvage whenever hes not around. I'll preface this by saying I'm a 75 nin/75 pld so I'm very comfortable tanking things. I have already used mnk to tank chariots and won without too many issues. My question more or less relates to "How should I be optimally setting up?" for tanking chariots. Our single mnk tank chariot wins have put us somewhere around the 20-25 minute mark. Usually closer to the latter. I've read about groups who are dual mnk tanking and killing in 7-8 minutes, so this leads me to believe that single tanking it should die in about 17-18 minutes (time added for shadow casting etc). I could be wrong on this, I'm just going off what others post as "fact".

One thing I've rarely if ever noticed are things like counters going off. I always got the impression from peoples posts that mnk counters so often, which doesn't seem to be the case. Fair enough this mnk in question has no counter merits but thats like 5% (1/20 hits) isn't it? In the last couple chariot fights I can only remember countering once. Are there any specific gear choices that mnks might be using that seem so obvious to a mnk but I wouldn't think to consider? Or are people simply overstating the power of counter?

Moving on from counters, how about food? I have been using meat on lower floors and sushi for the chariot fights. Do other mnks use meat or is it best to stick with sushi for the bosses?

Songs: Double March

Gear:

Destroyers
Turban
Shura body
melee gloves
byakkos haidate
fuma's
Black belt
Cerberus mantle
raja's/flame
brutal/triumph
Chiv chain

This is what I have been TP'ing in and WS in. Is there any particular gear slots you'd change for something else or anything I should pick up for him to tank with?

100 Fists: What is the optimal strategy here? Just blood tank it? Should I be using asuran fists every time I hit 100TP or just swinging the whole time?

Any other tips that I should keep in mind to help speed up the fights?

I know I have asked a bunch of questions. Thank you in advance for any advice.

Sincerly,
The guy with no mnk experience

Hey Elipse. We have just started doing bosses, and I generally have the same set up with Sushi, but I like Kirin's Osode to tank with a lot more Def, VIT, AGI, etc and no -HP. You could also consider a Cassie over the Triumph if you do that with the Osode.

BTW, whose MNK are you using?

[Elipse]

Zaknalfein and yeah osode is probably a good idea, I have a cassie for my nin that I'll trade over. As for counterstance doesn't that make your def so weak that you get hit much harder? I thought people suggested against using that.

[riddaraan]

I think Zak once told Greg that he only activated Counterstance to generate hate, and then immediately cancelled it. I remember them having that talk.

[ringthree]

Zaknalfein and yeah osode is probably a good idea, I have a cassie for my nin that I'll trade over. As for counterstance doesn't that make your def so weak that you get hit much harder? I thought people suggested against using that.

I use it, and I like it a lot. I have heard that if you get your defense to 400 you can bring down the damage from the bosses, but I have no idea how people get to 400 on the boss. With Vit unlocked, and in my more defensive gear I only got to like 200. Even with a Tavnazian Taco it would only be 250... and you have to give up the accuracy of the sushi. Its attack is so much higher than my defense that it doesn't really change how much damage you take, thus it is better to counter and take nothing than worry about whether you are taking 300 or 400 damage a hit.

[Zarath]

Zaknalfein and yeah osode is probably a good idea, I have a cassie for my nin that I'll trade over. As for counterstance doesn't that make your def so weak that you get hit much harder? I thought people suggested against using that.

I use it, and I like it a lot. I have heard that if you get your defense to 400 you can bring down the damage from the bosses, but I have no idea how people get to 400 on the boss. With Vit unlocked, and in my more defensive gear I only got to like 200. Even with a Tavnazian Taco it would only be 250... and you have to give up the accuracy of the sushi. Its attack is so much higher than my defense that it doesn't really change how much damage you take, thus it is better to counter and take nothing than worry about whether you are taking 300 or 400 damage a hit.

I like taking off counter stance on the more harder bosses, I'm looking at u SSR and BR, which has a tendency to double attack. With sushi in an atk build for TP, I generally take about 220-240 dmg a hit vs 440-480dmg with CS up. I generally like saving it as a Hate builder (chi blast and CS) when they hate reset, however I like removing it cause I rather take 400-500 dmg total if Counter misses, vs 900-1000 dmg with CS up.

[Neosutra]

Zaknalfein and yeah osode is probably a good idea, I have a cassie for my nin that I'll trade over. As for counterstance doesn't that make your def so weak that you get hit much harder? I thought people suggested against using that.

I use it, and I like it a lot. I have heard that if you get your defense to 400 you can bring down the damage from the bosses, but I have no idea how people get to 400 on the boss. With Vit unlocked, and in my more defensive gear I only got to like 200. Even with a Tavnazian Taco it would only be 250... and you have to give up the accuracy of the sushi. Its attack is so much higher than my defense that it doesn't really change how much damage you take, thus it is better to counter and take nothing than worry about whether you are taking 300 or 400 damage a hit.

I like taking off counter stance on the more harder bosses, I'm looking at u SSR and BR, which has a tendency to double attack. With sushi in an atk build for TP, I generally take about 220-240 dmg a hit vs 440-480dmg with CS up. I generally like saving it as a Hate builder (chi blast and CS) when they hate reset, however I like removing it cause I rather take 400-500 dmg total if Counter misses, vs 900-1000 dmg with CS up.

Ya, counterstance is OK for the easy bosses (Zhayolm/SS), but I wouldnt do it for Bhaf/Arra, which to me seem to hit harder and double/triple attack. A triple attack from LBC with 45 defense will do about 1500 damage and ruin your day. If your tanks are good, they will start casting utsu the moment a TP animation starts, so they should never be getting hit anyways.

[Cream Soda]

double attack, to me, is the reason why to use CS on LBC. Helps a fuckton with ichi. If i die from not countering 2-3 times in a row, i was gonna be dead anyway by not being able to get ichi up

[Judai]

I have solo tanked chariots and we zerged them down in 10m. Usually have a WAR or DRK or something there to help tank but they don't seem to pull hate off me that much. Things seem to be easier when I'm the only melee on the Chariot or mob though, everytime anyone else runs up to hit it, it instantly uses a TP move.

First off, ditch the Flame ring.. Acc Ring, MNK is all about Acc. Also, PCC would be better for neck but idk if they have one. OHat and Potent Belt for WS would be good as well. AF is all about Acc and hitting as many of the 8 hits as you can.

I personally tank Chariots in Osode and WS in Shura Body. Other then Pcc, Ulth ring and Ethereal, the rest is pretty much what I use for tanking. I don't use Counterstance unless I need hate. Then I just hit it and click it off. In my opinion, you don't counter enough to rationalize getting hit for 500-600 dmg with 800 crits. I generally only get hit for 2-300 dmg and crits for 500 or so. I rarely even get hit, unless we are in zerg mode and usually I'm being curebombed anyways. The trick is to use Ichi when it starts it's TP move. By the time is finishes, you will have cast Ichi and you have Ni for the inbetween TP moves time if the Chariot Double Attacks.

For 100 fists, I swap in some Acc gear, Dune boots and hit AF every 100TP(no boost, it slows you down imo). 100 fists puts you at the melee haste cap, so no need for haste gears, add in Acc and Atk. STR is pretty much shit for MNK, so unless it's just a bonus on the item it's not worth adding. I do use Rajas Ring and AF2 Gloves for the Subtle Blow though and if MP is really low I will add in other things like AF2 pants for more Subtle Blow. It's pretty great hitting 100 fists after a Penace Chi and only having the chariot use 1 TP move the whole time.

I do still cast shadows during 100, I try to only use Ni but sometimes you need an Ichi, usually I just hit 100 right after I catsed Ichi anyways and got fresh shadows. If you have a Fanactics drink(Invincible, lasts about 1m), it's awesome, can just use that and not even care about shadows.

[Tyche]

http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/6...4010910om0.png

Obviously, NIN sub, and now I have usukane feet instead of fuma. This is JUST a chariot tanking setup. I use standard gear for going up. Edit: I use meat...the whole time. Never had a problem hitting.

[Churchill]

Unless you use Arhats+1 for when shadows are down on LBC and DEF food, Counter tanking is the way to go because he's not going to hit you any harder or softer with or without it. Having a Body boost and using mainly AF2 except for recasts is a good idea but it depends on how many you have, if your mages are solid and you have experience tanking as you said you do, you can do it in full DD and be okay.

If you get 10/10 4F gears it's a joke anyway.

[Zarath]

In the end though, it depends on how your experience comes out, as you can tell with the responses in this thread, it's a little of both. I too was in your shoes when I started up taking a mnk account to salvage, and I found CS doesn't warrant taking the potential of 400-500 dmg/hit from BR and SSR, and rather use it as a tool to take hate back.

[Tyche]

Unless you use Arhats+1 for when shadows are down on LBC and DEF food, Counter tanking is the way to go because he's not going to hit you any harder or softer with or without it. Having a Body boost and using mainly AF2 except for recasts is a good idea but it depends on how many you have, if your mages are solid and you have experience tanking as you said you do, you can do it in full DD and be okay.

If you get 10/10 4F gears it's a joke anyway.

I countertanked LBC the first 2 times we did it, and the hits were consistently in the 600+ range. With 250+ defense and P3 or 4, hits are usually 300-400 without it. It has extremely high attack, so killing DEF will get your shit rocked. LBC can be solo tanked with elegy and marches without counterstance, using it is stupid.

[Zarath]

Unless you use Arhats+1 for when shadows are down on LBC and DEF food, Counter tanking is the way to go because he's not going to hit you any harder or softer with or without it. Having a Body boost and using mainly AF2 except for recasts is a good idea but it depends on how many you have, if your mages are solid and you have experience tanking as you said you do, you can do it in full DD and be okay.

If you get 10/10 4F gears it's a joke anyway.

I countertanked LBC the first 2 times we did it, and the hits were consistently in the 600+ range. With 250+ defense and P3 or 4, hits are usually 300-400 without it. It has extremely high attack, so killing DEF will get your shit rocked. LBC can be solo tanked with elegy and marches without counterstance, using it is stupid.

I've always wondered how people counter tank LBC and not die along the way via bad circumstances, shit hits hard enough without =/

[Whatinthe]

I've always wondered how people counter tank LBC and not die along the way via bad circumstances, shit hits hard enough without =/

Last time I tanked LBC (dual tank MNK - like the other MNK can get hate...) I had 29 "hits" that got evaded including 15 by shadows and 14 by counter. Had I not counterstanced, those 14 hits would've landed for 4000+ damage or more. Combined with the 13 hits that actually landed (excluding AoE damage), would've put my total damage dealt over what actually happened.

[Tyche]

Had you not counterstanced, you may not have been hit all 14 of those times, you DO have a natural counter. Then again, getting attacked 27 times with shadows down makes me

[Whatinthe]

Had you not counterstanced, you may not have been hit all 14 of those times, you DO have a natural counter. Then again, getting attacked 27 times with shadows down makes me

It was a 6 min zerg with two double 100-fist using meds. Usually I'm a lot more careful with my tanking, especially if it's not time-critical.

[Judai]

Unless you use Arhats+1 for when shadows are down on LBC and DEF food, Counter tanking is the way to go because he's not going to hit you any harder or softer with or without it.

This is just incorrect. Counterstanced you get hit for 5-600 with 7-800 crits. I only get hit for 2-300 with 500 crits in my set-up with no CS and I don't use damage reduction gear or Def food.

Had you not counterstanced, you may not have been hit all 14 of those times, you DO have a natural counter. Then again, getting attacked 27 times with shadows down makes me

It was a 6 min zerg with two double 100-fist using meds. Usually I'm a lot more careful with my tanking, especially if it's not time-critical.

1. You got hit way too fucking much. I don't even get hit that much in my zergs.

2. Since you zerged it, it doesn't really matter and doesn't fit into your regular tanking schemes. Mages will be curebombing you regardless and it sounds like you didn't even try to tank, you just punched it.

If it's your groups first time I wouldn't reccomend CS tanking as you can die in 2-3 hits unless you have a Body Boost. People greatly exagerate how hard the chariots hit for. Yes, they can hit hard and they can crit for huge amounts but those numbers are twice as high if you CS tank it.

It really shouldn't matter though if you Cs or not because it's very easy to keep shadows up unless you pile on the melee. They are so slow to use their TP moves you can cast 80% of Ichi and have shadows up easily before they get the next attack round off. I just choose to go the safer route and not take the chance he Crits me for 800.