SAM tanking Chariots in Salvage.

[cdgreg]

I would still like a bit of clarification on the positioning of AC to prevent MR.

I would like some, as well. Has anyone else been able to stop it yet?

My small group has been spamming AC lately trying to get a few Bodb’s Pigaches although the past 4 drops have all been ares feet and skadi legs lol. None the less we have tried repeatedly in different spots to recreate this and I even asked Kaeko in-game for some clarification but have had no luck "disabling" MR. At first we tried sticking AC between two pillars since his sides extend and we figured that could be the glitch but nope. After getting more information from Kaeko and him stressing your tanks back has to be as close to the wall as possible or jammed in a corner we tried a few more placements. So far we have not been able to reproduce the no MR'ing. I know it's hard to explain where we've tried without SS"s but I'll do my best:
1. Between the inactive teleporter pillar + wall in AC's main room (SW area, back obviously not against a wall)
2. Between a pillar and the corner where the room turns into the small hallway before the first door (back not against a wall, AC sort of diagonal)
3. Between 2 pillars in the small hallway before the door with tanks back to the wall.
4. Utmost NW corner of the room jamming the tank in the corner. I had my hopes up for this one since the front of AC seemed to be jammed in a pillar.
5. Same NW corner but instead of jamming the tank into the corner diagonally, he positioned himself with his back to the N wall but stayed in the corner.

If anyone is able to find a position where MR is "disabled" a SS would be great. We'll keep trying and hopefully stumble onto the right spot.

[Falaras]

For Arrapago the particular zone I am talking about right now, I usually get SJ cell extremely far in so the Berserk/DA benefits really don't do anything, last time I got it right before the last QQA in which he 1 shotted me with a Flare through Weapon Bash. Maybe if you get an early SJ cell, or get the one at the start of the zone but in my situation that isn't the case so /war really doesn't speed normal fighting up with Berserk/DA.

[Zilong]

For Arrapago the particular zone I am talking about right now, I usually get SJ cell extremely far in so the Berserk/DA benefits really don't do anything, last time I got it right before the last QQA in which he 1 shotted me with a Flare through Weapon Bash. Maybe if you get an early SJ cell, or get the one at the start of the zone but in my situation that isn't the case so /war really doesn't speed normal fighting up with Berserk/DA.

My group give me first dupli with WHM, second without, though for the most part I'd have dupli by the time we hit the gears anyway.

[RKenshin]

I usually get the first/one of the first SJs too, depending on if we have a WHM or not to -na. Otherwise the BRD will often get the first so they can take care of it.

As far as the MR prevention goes, the way he originally stated it in his first post made it sound like he discovered this trick from the JP group a while ago (I'm assuming this, so it could be wrong). If this is the case, the glitch could've easily been patched since then. Unless he can confirm they're still able to use this trick now?

[Kaeko]

I usually get the first/one of the first SJs too, depending on if we have a WHM or not to -na. Otherwise the BRD will often get the first so they can take care of it.

As far as the MR prevention goes, the way he originally stated it in his first post made it sound like he discovered this trick from the JP group a while ago (I'm assuming this, so it could be wrong). If this is the case, the glitch could've easily been patched since then. Unless he can confirm they're still able to use this trick now?

We could as of 2 months ago. They seem to really rely on this type of positioning/glitch when they do runs. I haven't been online at the right times to ask the people in LS that would know lately though.

[ringthree]

I usually get the first/one of the first SJs too, depending on if we have a WHM or not to -na. Otherwise the BRD will often get the first so they can take care of it.

As far as the MR prevention goes, the way he originally stated it in his first post made it sound like he discovered this trick from the JP group a while ago (I'm assuming this, so it could be wrong). If this is the case, the glitch could've easily been patched since then. Unless he can confirm they're still able to use this trick now?

We could as of 2 months ago. They seem to really rely on this type of positioning/glitch when they do runs. I haven't been online at the right times to ask the people in LS that would know lately though.

Oh, just because you are the God of Enmity™ now, you think you can shirk your duties on getting us Salvage info! Bad Kaeko!

[Zilong]

Just did AC and LAC on SAM/WAR...

Seriously, you'd need to be running really short on healer or something if you can't SAM/WAR those.

AC was a bitch with mortal rev popping 800s on a crit, but normally it'd only hit for ~300-400 damage, and when you're running with ~1600 HP, those are no problem.

LAC was a bit harder with brainjack and whatnot, but the sheer damage it pops makes the fight goes by really fast.

I guess all I have to say is be smart with your TE timing, and have a decent physical damage reduction set to fall back on, because with 2 tank, even on the off chance you sponge, the other guy should pull enough hate to take over.

[Falaras]

And I accidently ran LBC last night as Sam/war. Died twice, was getting third eye cleared in 10 seconds, crits for over 500, non crits for low 200s. And we also brought an extra 4 people (2 as Curers). I don't see how you can tank Sam/war unless your loaded up on healers.

[Judai]

Maybe you just aren't as good at SAM~ You specifically stated you don't use a Damage Reduction set in one of your first posts, which is what all the other guys using /war say is a must.

[theo]

Thanks for all the tips, this thread has made Chariots so much easier for my group now. Just got done duo-tanking LBC on SAM/WAR with a SAM/NIN. Was my first time tanking anything endgame other than solo/duo stuff so I can safely say it was an entirely new experience for me, hopefully next time I'll have a stronger grasp on it. I definitely parsed higher damage than the other SAM, and I didn't feel like provoke was necessary at all because LBC went back and forth between us fairly equally.

I wore defense gear nearly the entire time, mostly because I was nervous and didn't know how bad it was going to be. Maybe next time I'll experiment a little with DD gear and the occasional berserk.

This experience is all very ironic to me now, looking back on my first LBC where we got our asses kicked. I specifically remember saying "guys, I'm coming RDM next time cause SAM just isn't viable on this thing."

[Falaras]

Maybe you just aren't as good at SAM~ You specifically stated you don't use a Damage Reduction set in one of your first posts, which is what all the other guys using /war say is a must.

For the LBC I used Gavial + NQ Arhats, I highly doubt -5% physical from HQ arhats is suddenly gonna make Mortal Revolutions do 400 instead of a constant 800 or LBC crit for 300 instead of 500. How "good" you are at a job has nothing to do with how long your Third Eye will hold, or anything else in the game really so its a moot point.

[Wolfknight]

wonder if sam will still be able to pull this off after the nerf
Guess I'll find out since we have LBC planned.

[Anomander]

I will sign on with Sam/war > Sam/nin. Being a player on Seraph, Rukenshin is well known to me, and we asked him about it beforehand. I as well as the co leader Aeowin both use Sam/war for salvage, and have used it to great effect, for the 3 months we have been active. Completed 6 pieces so far, with six more 2/3 (including me, I went 1/1 on 35 usukane body :X). Just to note, we go 3x a week, sometimes more, and usually go with 8, sometimes less, sometimes more.

As Rukenshin said earlier, it's not simply a 10 percent double attack vs utsusemi on the chariot. /war is far superior for the rest of the run as well, when you compare your additional damage over the course of the entire run it can be quite sizable. I guess if you are playin it safe and hit chariots with 30 minutes /nin is okay, but as he said I have found /nin shadows to be as unreliable, if not moreso, than third eye, due to the annoying AoE's wiping shadows.

Our typical set up is 1 black belt monk and 2 sam/war's on the boss. On any boss without hate wiping abilities, hate tends to bounce around fine, and its really easy to tank with seigan/third eye for the short duration of time you hold aggro.

LAC is the only one where one of us will have hate for extended periods of time (we subscribe to the kite method, and have used it to great effect) but seigan tanking still works fine. As rukenshin says, be smart with when you pop third eye, ie right as you pull hate. This tends to work far better, being nearly as reliable as utsusemi, without the worry of aoe wiping it. Our mages are very fast on paralyna, so it being locked due to paralyze never happens.

I would also carry a defense set, in the cases where you have all aggro and your third eye decides to fail. However...I dont even have a good one. Aeowin's is better, and he swaps every time he needs to. I only die on bosses when things go really wrong...mp is never an issue for us, we use whm and a rdm and brd (ballads + storm fife) for curing.

I cant comment on AC, as we have yet to make a serious attempt at fighting it (just fought it on farming runs when we had extra time). However, if the glitch or trick to locking MR is legit and easy enough to do, then Sam/war all the way for AC as well.

[Oulanbator]

Sorry to bring up page 1 post ( and kinda out of topic) but I saw this and I find it quite interesting :

I War/Sam, I found a really simple little thing that has helped me a lot, I put a /wait 1, /ja "Third Eye" <me> line in my WS macro, the eye winds up going off during the last hit of Raging Rush and gives me a nice fresh set to tank with. Someone I was talking too called it dumb, not sure why since fresh eye > any other eye

I'm pretty sure you can pause your macro with /target <stpc> instead of /wait 1 to give you the option to cast 3rd eye or not ( hence to finish using the eye that is already active or to avoid wasting your recast for nothing).

Well I'm not sure if you want to recast 3rd eye at 100%, or if you would like to be ready to have recast it just in case xD
I'm not a Sam ( well leveling it as a SJ lv 23 atm) but I'm wondering if this would be practical or not.

Sorry for the small derail btw

[Amele]

while it is true that a fresh eye is stronger than a weak eye, if your timer is up (and you're on seigan) you won't have third eye up, so there's no 'old eye' to overwrite.

the duration on third eye is 30seconds (max) the recast is 30 seconds under seigan. Samurai main can in theory get the recast down to like, 25 seconds - but it eats up merits that most would rather put in store TP and meditate.

a war/sam would always have a 30 second recast.

[Cream Soda]

How are kill times as compared to a mnk tank? Since these are longer battles, DoT is where a mnk truly shines so I couldn't imagine the average sam or even above average sam being to have a kill as quick. Would have to be some pwn kenshin shit lol

[Berdysh]

Kills are faster with WAR/SAM and SAM/WAR tanks, that's the benefit to using them over MNK/NIN (which is obviously safer).

[Cream Soda]

hmm I've had war as my cotank on plenty of occasions and always parsed higher

[oldoldman]

In my LS we've almost completely done away with the notion of tanking. I have SAM and MNK leveled and I go SAM now because the killing on the way up is so much faster. We usually have a MNK and 2 SAMs or even 3 SAMs on the chariots. Anyone with a decent damage mitigation strategy can do it. Plus the other SAM has amano and double lights every 5 minutes are awesome. (killed a rampart in 6 seconds)

[Amele]

hmm I've had war as my cotank on plenty of occasions and always parsed higher

gear quality still matters etc. etc.