Enmity testing - Still Going!

[Vuitton]

Some JP discussion threads on this claim that the pulling initial hate is basd on a percentage of the action.

Can anyone who tested that it was 200 say what spell they were using to pull with?

Silence and Stun. It was 200 CE in both cases. I think I also tested it with Dispel, but I don't remember for sure.

Is it the CE generated normally + an additional 200? Or is any initial action 200 CE? Sorry, I think I misread somewhere.

[Kaeko]

Some JP discussion threads on this claim that the pulling initial hate is basd on a percentage of the action.

Can anyone who tested that it was 200 say what spell they were using to pull with?

Silence and Stun. It was 200 CE in both cases. I think I also tested it with Dispel, but I don't remember for sure.

Is it the CE generated normally + an additional 200? Or is any initial
action 200 CE? Sorry, I think I misread somewhere.

Additional. Think of it like a CE/VE Bonus

[Kaeko]

The list of spells that target the enemy (but no damage) is nearly completed. I'd like to get those taken care of first, so here's the list of missing spells that target the enemy but do not damage...

Both CE and VE missing:
Absorb-TP
Angon
Blade Bash
Blind II
Burn/Choke/Drown/Frost/Rasp/Shock
Cold Wave
Dark Shot/Light Shot
Maiden's Virelai
Mug
Poisonga
Shadowbind
Steal

VE missing:
Aspir
Blank Gaze
Filamented Hold
Foe Lullaby
Geist Wall
Horde Lullaby
Light of Penance
MP Drainkiss
Sheep Song
Sleep II
Sleepga
Sleepga II
Soporific
Venom Shell
Voracious Trunk
Yawn

Those listed together are ones I think are safe to assume have the same amount of CE/VE associated with them.

Thanks for those who have helped out with both testing and just disecting the tests. We're about 1/2 done with the table in just over 8 days, which is really fast I think.

[mikazuki]

will a light elemental resist light shot? - also foe lullaby, horde lullaby, etc.

maiden's virelai can be tested on a variety of low lv beastmen/arcana/undead~

shadowbind might (not) work on a fire elemental.

mug and steal might vary based on the mob have anything to lose (is unlikely though).

edit:
light of penance also has bind effect.

[Delekii]

magic hammer is a damage spell

[Suiram]

Missing Cold Wave info, too. I remember because it took off 50% of the mob's life per tick so we moved on lol

[Kaeko]

Editted some things in that post.

Also, since Ashi and I don't have access to a lvl30+ PLD, if anyone can run a "VE Cap Test" for us that would be amazing too. Basically same testing procedure as most but you need a lvl30+ PLD for Sentinel.

PLD/RDM + 2 other jobs, 1 with Dispel
Player 3 pulls a mob
Player 1 and 2 Cast Dispel (P1=320CE,P2=320CE)
Player 1 uses Cure 1 for 0 HP 5 times (P1=325CE,P2=320CE)
Player 2 uses Sentinel (P1=325CE,P2=322CE)
Player 2 uses Invincible with Sentinel effect (P1=325CE,P2=324CE)
*Note that I assumed the Sentinel and 2hr gave 2 CE each, though I'm not sure on this. Because we're using a pretty ball-park method, it's not a big deal if you threw in 2 extra cures.

Time the amount of time it takes for Player 2 to lose hate back to player 1. The Sentinel effect will grant a +100 Enmity bonus to the 2hr, giving it 14400 VE; you'll also have a fair amount of VE from Sentinel even though we don't know the exact number. If the time take to get back hate is under 4 minutes, then VE must have been capped (4 minutes os 14400 VE decayed).

This one is kind of important - it's really the last "big" thing we need to figure out before really diving into cure/damage formulas.

[Tour]

Some JP discussion threads on this claim that the pulling initial hate is basd on a percentage of the action.

Can anyone who tested that it was 200 say what spell they were using to pull with?

I did it with Slow and Hojo: Ichi, I got 201 and 280 CE respectively, so each time 200 for pulling, plus whatever CE the spell itself gives. Same for 0 damage RA, 201 CE. The 200 seems to be fairly constant.

edit: I've also been playing with Corsair rolls, they seem to be 1 CE and about 80 VE per person, and double-up the same. I dunno if that's been said yet.

editedit: I actually have access to a paladin. I'll try your VE cap test when his two hour is back up (1:37:26...25...24)

[Kaeko]

Thanks, added the COR info

[Garret]

I realize that doing testing to try and determine the hard numbers behind what taking damage does to hate may be quite difficult but my one question on this matter whether there was any testing done to determine whether taking damage affects CE, VE, or both.

I would think this alone would be relatively easy to test, in comparison to a controlled experiment determining quantitatively the actual reduction it makes.

Didn't see any mention of this on LJ, or in this thread, although I have not gone through every post here with a fine toothed comb so it's possible it was buried somewhere and I didn't see it.

[Kaeko]

I realize that doing testing to try and determine the hard numbers behind what taking damage does to hate may be quite difficult but my one question on this matter whether there was any testing done to determine whether taking damage affects CE, VE, or both.

I would think this alone would be relatively easy to test, in comparison to a controlled experiment determining quantitatively the actual reduction it makes.

Didn't see any mention of this on LJ, or in this thread, although I have not gone through every post here with a fine toothed comb so it's possible it was buried somewhere and I didn't see it.

I think it's easy to test if damage taken lowers VE - you just do the same stopwatch thing but allow yourself to take damage and see if the time is shortened. I suspect that VE is unaffected by damage taken, as it is the only explanation I can give as to why PLD/WAR works. I personally suspect damage taken affects CE only, but who knows until some testing is done.

[Tour]

I just ran the test you suggested, it looks like VE is capped at 10k, too.

I got 167 seconds between the hate spike and hate returning to the second character. 167 seconds * 60 VE/second = 10020 VE.

[Kaeko]

I just ran the test you suggested, it looks like VE is capped at 10k, too.

I got 167 seconds between the hate spike and hate returning to the second character. 167 seconds * 60 VE/second = 10020 VE.

Amazing. Thanks!

I think this cap is a bit low in the grand scheme of things. Invincible in proper PLD enmity gear automatically caps VE in this scenario. Also, from what I can tell based on some JP testing, a well placed 400 HP cure 4 by a PLD easily grants 2000+ VE.

[Valyana]

VE missing:
Sleep II

As I mentioned before, I stopwatched Sleep II at about the same VE as CE; the mob turned back at about 8 seconds, or 480 VE.

[Kaeko]

Sorry I must have missed that one.

[Tour]

Just got through the quickdraw numbers, and totally realized I should probably try to condense these things into one post from now on(kinda spammed this thread today ._.;; But yeah! Quick Draw, light, dark and elemental shots all have 1CE and 0VE. Seems really interesting to me, Corsair is apparently a really low enmity job. And here, I thought our laughable damage was the reason we never drew hate :3

Promise to control my post count a bit better in the future! ^^;

*edit: I forgot to mention, light and dark shot, when used to pull, do not suffer the usual 200 CE bonus. It's strange, and I don't really get why ._.;;;*

[Kaeko]

Just got through the quickdraw numbers, and totally realized I should probably try to condense these things into one post from now on(kinda spammed this thread today ._.;; But yeah! Quick Draw, light, dark and elemental shots all have 1CE and 0VE. Seems really interesting to me, Corsair is apparently a really low enmity job. And here, I thought our laughable damage was the reason we never drew hate :3

Promise to control my post count a bit better in the future! ^^;

[i]*edit: I forgot to mention, light and dark shot, when used to pull, do not suffer the usual 200 CE bonus. It's strange, and I don't really get why ._.;;;*

Wait, so damage did not affect the enmity gain? So if I say did a 300 damage water shot, it still gives only 1 CE 0 VE?

[Tour]

Erm I totally should have clarified! I tracked down an earth elemental and preformed earth shot on it for 0 damage. I just assumed that doing damage with quickdraw would give it additional hate, so didn't actually test that at all, I just wanted to be sure that they didn't add any enmity in addition to whatever the damage would bring. I can go back out and fiddle with it a bit, though. Might be interesting!

[eva00r]

Can anyone test these ?

SA, TA, xxx Circle, Boost, Chakra, Dodge, Focus, xxx Manuever, Pet command, Reward, Bloodpact

[Ashira]

Ok, well, we found the problem with Sirvente... kind of. No difference in VE decay... we have no idea what we did in prior test.. that's what we get for doing stuff at 3 am.

Going to test if it lessens loss of CE now.