Enmity testing - Still Going!

[Kaeko]

Would it be possible for hate to be based upon dHP% rather than it being based upon level?
It would show a similar relation since as level increases so does HP.

Could try finding two mobs with different HP but the same level, problem would be doing the same amount of damage to both to compare hate values. Perhaps a blu with 1000 needles, or breath damage, or spirits within, something unmodified by mob stats.

We would also run into precision issues, because our smallest count is 1%hp, unless we can predetermine mob hp, or kill with a parser running to determine HP after the fact. With that, one would have to be careful of only using parse-able damage though.

Just another possibility I guess. Anyone have a reason why this is not plausible?

It's not HP based. You can see it pretty easily since something like Tiamat with 100,000 HP has very similar reaction to the same damage as say an IT++ Aern, even though they are similar level but drastically different HPs. I'll probably run some formal test just to disprove the idea that HP matters though.

[Freysi]

One thing you could do to test in exact increments of very low damage is use 2 RDMs, use up mp down to a certain point, say 8mp and 16mp. Convert, and then use Spirits Within on some lvl 5 mobs for 1 and 2 dmg. Sub sam for easy tp.

Could theoretically setup tests for every integer value between 1 and MAX(Galka RDM hp)/2 Although that sounds like a helluva lot of work.

[Kaeko]

Some updates...

CE/VE Table Value Changes

Sleep VE is actually 320, not 240 (320/320)
Repose VE is 480 (480/480)

Hate Reset Testing

The following series of events all did NOT result in a hate reset when the person doing these actions was not at the top of the hate list...

Zone > wait 5 minutes > Rezone
Zone > /shutdown > Rezone
Zone > Zone to 2nd zone > Rezone > Rezone
Zone > Mog House > Change Job > Rezone

Seems that its pretty hard to actually get a hate reset if you aren't the current mob target.

Last thing...

Marduk Legs have hidden -4 Enmity.

We got really fucked up in today's tests because we didn't know this (obviously). We eventually verified this after both having 0 equip on, verifying that we matched Dispel hate, then Ashira would equip Marduk Legs and repeat. She would not match, then she cured herself until we matched. Took 13 cures. 13/320 = roughly 4 so we figure the hidden -4 enmity at 4.

We did the same for Marduk body but found no hidden Enmity Change. Wearing body Marduk body and Marduk legs resulted in the same -4 enmity on legs alone.

I personally think SE just screwed up and didn't list the -4 enmity on legs. Ashi thinks SE may have actually been sneaky and stuck hidden enmity changes on Salvage gear. We may test Ares stuff since that's the one I think most people would be interested in.

[Ashira]

Well, not so much as I think there are stats on all of them, as much as we should test for thoroughness to be sure, for one thing. Also, the Ares would be interesting since there have been some PLDs who swear that THAT ONE MORE MP/TICK REFRESH MAKES THEM TANK, LIKE, OMG SO MUCH BETTER. If there's a hidden/unlisted +enmity on the body there, then things will make a lot more sense and kinda makes me laugh.

So we have friends who have enough Morri and Usu for testing, and at least Ares body which is the most pertinent at this point in that set. Not sure if anyone would care nor why there would be anything on Skadi, etc.

It's not so much believing there is hidden stats on varying sets, as just wanting to test for thoroughness, and at least finding whether or not Ares' has anything. /shrug


As to the tests, we'd started off with me on WHM/RDM and I didn't have the legs with me. I threw on body for Refresh and we never noticed anything weird with getting hate to volley.

Kae had me switch to BRD to test Lullaby numbers, and I grabbed the pants out of storage for MP and such. Suddenly the mobs were flipping back around after my Dispels, and taking too many Cures to equal hates, etc. So was completely by mistake and chance we came across it, so then of course Kae and I couldn't sign off til we figured it out.

It's a good thing, really, that it happened so that we found the stat. Makes the piece even more nice for BRD on the whole, esp for those people who feel they have a need to worry about -Enmity.

[Kriz]

I'm not too surprised (but am glad there is)- the are 8 lines of text (name, slot, level, 4 stats, one set) and they ran out of text... I'm guessing it isn't obvious in Japanese (like, what, THF af2 way back when)

I'd look at other gear for such occurrences, but not much has so much text in its box.

[Ashira]

Well, asking today in LS, the JP description of Marduk's Shalwar does not include anything about Enmity either, though apparently its desc. window is just as crowded.

Still, interesting.

[shihei]

Wouldn't be the first time they made somthing with a secret hidden effect or fub'd(no it is not a word) on desc. window.

[Belkin]

Test Ares's Cuirass, DOOT NA

[Kaeko]

So some of you guys think this is because the description window is too full to show the stat?

In that case, it would be fastest to test items with really filled description windows... Anyone care to help start a list or name a couple?

Also, I'm tempted just to randomly post Ares body is +10 Enmity just to see what kind of the sky is falling reaction we'd get.

[Tekki]

So someone tell me how to test my body

[Suiram]

What would be the fastest way to power-test a collection of armor, just to see if there was some hidden +/- enmity bonus, and then going back later to the ones that get flagged to find the actual value? Something like this? Person A naked, Person B wearing a piece of armor from the collection, Person C pulls the mob initially.

C pulls with silence
A Dispels
B Dispels
If the mob stays on B, hidden Enmity+
If the mob goes back to A, B casts cure 1 for 0
If the mob stays on A, hidden Enmity-
If the mob goes back to B, no hidden adjustment
Kill and repeat with new armor

I'm asking because I forget what the rule was when two people have the same TE, is it the first person to reach the value or the most recent person and the above operations would have to be adjusted somewhat?

[Kaeko]

So someone tell me how to test my body

Absolute fastest way to test...

Take 2 characters with Dispel, and one person on anything. one of them able to wear Ares body obviously. Make sure they have no enmity merit enhancement.

Go find any lvl0 mob and have the random person on any job pull a mob.

Both players with dispel now stand next to mob - 1 naked, 1 just with ares body on.

Player with Ares body casts Dispel first.

Player with nothing on casts Dispel second.

The player with nothing on (that cast second) SHOULD maintain hate forever at this point. If the player that cast first (with Ares on) gets hate back, that means there is a hidden + enmity enhancement. Reverse the order of players that cast to test a - enmity enhancement.

EDIT: what Suiram said is the formal way I'd write the procedure - that probably is a better direction to follow once you get the gist of what's going on.

[Belkin]

What if both people casting Dispel had +4 enmity merits, that would work right?

[Suiram]

Well based on what you just said I think I had it backwards.

Also, since a lot of people with Ares body would likely have enmity merits, it should be acceptable to offset the merits with gear that has known +/- enmity in another slot, yes?

[Kaeko]

What if both people casting Dispel had +4 enmity merits, that would work right?

Yes, as long as they match it should work.

Well based on what you just said I think I had it backwards.

Also, since a lot of people with Ares body would likely have enmity merits, it should be acceptable to offset the merits with gear that has known +/- enmity in another slot, yes?

Yes this is also another solution - make sure the numbers match at the end basically.


Just a reminder... If you are testing for a + enmity enhancement, the guy with say the Ares body (you're testing for +) casts FIRST. The guy who you think may have the higher enmity goes FIRST. If you were testing like Marduk legs, the person wearing them goes second if you are testing for -.

[Ashira]

LOL Tekki just asked in IRC cuz he was apparently to impatient for the same test.

Proud to say I gave him the same instructions. Like, to the letter.

Or maybe that's more sad. Damn you, Kaeko.

Tekki's going to test too, with fellow PLD with same merits, and a third party puller. So results soon. Be nice if there is something, not really expecting anything though. Though at the same time, kind of.. am. LOL

[Tekki]

Testing now

[Tekki]

no bonus on body or legs

[Kriz]

Again, I'd believe anything with too much text is a suspect.

Check Marduk's Shalwar
http://images.wikia.com/ffxi/images/...7s_Shalwar.jpg
8 lines. What else is? Hint: Not much.

Here's one - Skadi's Cuirie
http://images.wikia.com/ffxi/images/...27s_Cuirie.jpg

Edit- Ugh, beaten by my own logic...

Marduk Crackows
http://images.wikia.com/ffxi/images/...s_Crackows.jpg

[Apollyon]

Here's another one:

nvm