Enmity testing - Still Going!

[Kaeko]

Really no need to get ultra PC here

My theory on this can be proven or disproven with experimentation so, the great thing about the way we've gone about this is you can end any difference of opinion in a very open and transparent manner.

I personally believe this idea, so the key to showing it is more complete than the old explanation (because it is more complex than the previous - in this case, you always take the simpler explanation unless it fails to hold true in an observable case). When you have opposing theories like this, you just simply find a test which can definitively sway either way.

[Shafted!]

Appreciate all the work that has been done in this thread.

Quick question: For the VE to be added to the TE of a character, does the spell have to land? Ie, absorb-chr from a nin/drk for +640 to TE?

Thanks S!

[Ashira]

Appreciate all the work that has been done in this thread.

Quick question: For the VE to be added to the TE of a character, does the spell have to land? Ie, absorb-chr from a nin/drk for +640 to TE?

Thanks S!

No, the spell does not need to land. See: usage of Stun repeatedly with no effect on Fafnir, etc.

[shaddix]

i ended up losing 278 CE from taking 159 damage vs an ep bunny in cape terrigan

[Suiram]

When I saw the Sand Trap discussion a few days ago, "Which, in particular, seems odd since, although it will obviously go after mages that are out of range upon hitting all of the melee/tanks with this move, it never seems difficult at all to re-establish enmity immediately afterwards," I recalled that this seems very much like how Jailer of Temperance behaves after Optic Induration, which I'd always just attributed to how mobs behave when their target is petrified. I only just remembered reading over this thread today that Sand Trap was petrification as well lol

So perhaps petrification status sets HC to 0?

[Spekkio]

When I saw the Sand Trap discussion a few days ago, "Which, in particular, seems odd since, although it will obviously go after mages that are out of range upon hitting all of the melee/tanks with this move, it never seems difficult at all to re-establish enmity immediately afterwards," I recalled that this seems very much like how Jailer of Temperance behaves after Optic Induration, which I'd always just attributed to how mobs behave when their target is petrified. I only just remembered reading over this thread today that Sand Trap was petrification as well lol

So perhaps petrification status sets HC to 0?

i'm not biting on such a global statement as that. i know i've been hit w/ breakga and then eaten by a scorp in bastok (remind me to slap my rdm again later tonight...) so such a sweeping generalization is a bit much imo. does baleful gaze cause the mob to change targets? medusa javelin? lvl 5 petri? khim's petri breath? i think there's plenty of counter examples but it is interesting that both ja's petri and both seem to monkey with hate.

[Shinta]

I haven't been following the thread very closely recently, but my wife has full Marduk so if I can figure out the controls for an enmity value test, I can do it.

Pardon my minor derail, what is your wife's max Cure V in full Marduk? I've been wondering what I will actually wear as I work on Salvage.

[Kaeko]

Looking for anyone that has access to Sange (NIN) and Tomahawk (WAR). Kind of hard to find players with those merited.

Also, anyone with those BST ability Merits too.

[Ichthyos]

Maybe it was a typo and the -4 enmity on the shoes shouldn't be there. Anyone have those to test out?

Tested and confirmed that both Marduk Shalwar and Marduk Crackows have -4 enmity. (Thanks, Nedi and Vilhem!)

[Max™]

Looking for anyone that has access to Sange (NIN) and Tomahawk (WAR). Kind of hard to find players with those merited.

Also, anyone with those BST ability Merits too.

T.T

That's brutal, bud of mine had Sange for a while, just cause... there really isn't much to do with Nin merits besides unlock a couple of ni nukes. He said it was like a good Jin worth of hate, but mostly just kept it around to nail people trying to run away in Ballista at low Hp.

I was thinking of unlocking Tomahawk, but did an HP merit instead, cause fucking Tomahawk makes me wanna kill kittens, eat the corpses, puke them up into a blender, make a shake out of it, force feed it to a midget, use him to kill another midget, dual wield both corpses, and make kitten puke filled midget nunchucks!

[Lordwafik]

What's wrong with tomahawk? Some of our wars have it unlocked and it's awesome for a quick stripping of mob special defense. Don't know what you're smoking, but replace it with rat poison.

[Max™]

Yeah, I do a lot of fighting against Elementals, and Jelly mobs, so I'm regularly thinking... "man, if I could only do a little bit more damage to these things for like 30 seconds, this would all go much better."

>.>

Look at Angon and Feint, and tell me Tomahawk is awesome outside of like two situations, where it's really not awesome, it's just kinda neat.

[Spekkio]

speeds up temperance when everyone can wail on him. ^^

[Xanthe]

Yeah, I do a lot of fighting against Elementals, and Jelly mobs, so I'm regularly thinking... "man, if I could only do a little bit more damage to these things for like 30 seconds, this would all go much better."

Rocs, Corses, Doomed, Elementals, Flans, Ghosts, Hecteyes, Leeches, Mimics, Skeletons, Slimes. Take your pick, all have at least one type of damage resistance. Also like Spekkio said, it's great for Jailer of Temperance, especially when he decides to stay stuck on whatever damage type you're lacking most at the moment.

[Ferien]

Yeah, I do a lot of fighting against Elementals, and Jelly mobs, so I'm regularly thinking... "man, if I could only do a little bit more damage to these things for like 30 seconds, this would all go much better."

Rocs, Corses, Doomed, Elementals, Flans, Ghosts, Hecteyes, Leeches, Mimics, Skeletons, Slimes. Take your pick, all have at least one type of damage resistance. Also like Spekkio said, it's great for Jailer of Temperance, especially when he decides to stay stuck on whatever damage type you're lacking most at the moment.

Sounds like Nyzul...

[Kaeko]

Yea I figured Tomahawk is really useful, but it's still hard to find someone with it for me

I'm just trying to finish off as many jobs on the table as quickly as possible at this point.

[Indalecia]

Yeah, I do a lot of fighting against Elementals, and Jelly mobs, so I'm regularly thinking... "man, if I could only do a little bit more damage to these things for like 30 seconds, this would all go much better."

Rocs, Corses, Doomed, Elementals, Flans, Ghosts, Hecteyes, Leeches, Mimics, Skeletons, Slimes. Take your pick, all have at least one type of damage resistance.

Basically, half of Nyzul.

Edit: damn you ferion!

[aurik]

Tomahawk is very solid. Kaeko if you can PM or post detailed instructions, I know Vistani has it unlocked and can maybe rope him into testing it.

[Kaeko]

Tomahawk is very solid. Kaeko if you can PM or post detailed instructions, I know Vistani has it unlocked and can maybe rope him into testing it.

2 main characters to test + 1 puller of any job. Both need Dispel (or any other CE move). If one of both players have enmity merits, it's actually fine as long as they match.

1) Puller pulls a mob.
2) Both players cast Dispel once (should be even now if both matched enmity enhancement)
3) Player WITHOUT tomahawk casts cure for 0 HP on himself twice (2 CE over WAR now)
4) WAR uses Tomahawk (WAR is now 1 CE below other player + VE generated)

At this point, the mob will turn to the WAR that just used Tomahawk. Use the menu to see how many seconds tic off the recast timer before the mob turns back to the other player - this will estimate how much VE was generated (number of seconds x 60 = approx VE).

This test has some inherent error in it since you're basing VE off a timer, which is why a +/- 4 enmity enhancement won't make a noticeable difference.

Thanks guys!

[Kirschy]

I have Tomahawk + Sange, and 3 characters I can control to do the test. My only problem is that I don't have /rdm for dispel. Do you know another good spell I can use to start the test /w? I assume I'd have to be war/whm, nin/whm and cast stoneskin to reduce any error in getting hit for damage.

EDIT: Just noticed you needed BST. I have access to a 75 BST /w feral howl if thats what you wanted tested.