Enmity testing - Still Going!

[Kaeko]

I have Tomahawk + Sange, and 3 characters I can control to do the test. My only problem is that I don't have /rdm for dispel. Do you know another good spell I can use to start the test /w? I assume I'd have to be war/whm, nin/whm and cast stoneskin to reduce any error in getting hit for damage.

EDIT: Just noticed you needed BST. I have access to a 75 BST /w feral howl if thats what you wanted tested.

It should work fine with low CE moves too, but the setup is a bit more complex.

Have the puller pull like normal and both of your characters can use like Silence (1CE). The puller will still have hate at this point (+200 on pull), so you just zone him. At this point, you'll have balanced CE and you can run your test (2 cures by 1 player then test your move).

[Kirschy]

Alright, that works~ I'll run some tests now.

[Kirschy]

Just a quick note... I'm noticing there's some kind of enmity+ on Ares Body, but I thought it was said there was none?

Player A: war/whm /w Enmity+4 merits
Player B: whm/blm /w Enmity-1 merits
Player C: brd/whm

Player C pulled. Player A casts Silence, Player B casts Silence. Player C zones.
I can cure on player a and b alternatively to make the mob turn. If I put ares cuirass on Player A, and cure, it doesn't go back to player B until 22 cures. (tested twice) =x.

Aside from that, w/o cuirass:
Tomahawk made the mob turn toward Player A for 11 seconds. Tested three times.

[Howard Roark]

Yeah, I do a lot of fighting against Elementals, and Jelly mobs, so I'm regularly thinking... "man, if I could only do a little bit more damage to these things for like 30 seconds, this would all go much better."

Rocs, Corses, Doomed, Elementals, Flans, Ghosts, Hecteyes, Leeches, Mimics, Skeletons, Slimes. Take your pick, all have at least one type of damage resistance. Also like Spekkio said, it's great for Jailer of Temperance, especially when he decides to stay stuck on whatever damage type you're lacking most at the moment.

Sounds like Nyzul...

yeah i've gotten asked to use formless strikes like 3-4 times in the last week compared to 3-4 times in the last year, pissing me off but i'm considering ditching the chi blast mod (which i do enjoy while soloing..)

[Valisk]

Player A: war/whm /w Enmity+4 merits
Player B: whm/blm /w Enmity-1 merits
Player C: brd/whm

Player C pulled. Player A casts Silence, Player B casts Silence. Player C zones.
I can cure on player a and b alternatively to make the mob turn.

How is that possible?

[Maxxthepenguin]

[quote=Howard Roark]

Yeah, I do a lot of fighting against Elementals, and Jelly mobs, so I'm regularly thinking... "man, if I could only do a little bit more damage to these things for like 30 seconds, this would all go much better."

Rocs, Corses, Doomed, Elementals, Flans, Ghosts, Hecteyes, Leeches, Mimics, Skeletons, Slimes. Take your pick, all have at least one type of damage resistance. Also like Spekkio said, it's great for Jailer of Temperance, especially when he decides to stay stuck on whatever damage type you're lacking most at the moment.

Sounds like Nyzul...

yeah i've gotten asked to use formless strikes like 3-4 times in the last week compared to 3-4 times in the last year, pissing me off but i'm considering ditching the chi blast mod (which i do enjoy while soloing..)[/quote:2qeg48tz]

Wait, you use invigorate or mantra?

[Ashira]

Just a quick note... I'm noticing there's some kind of enmity+ on Ares Body, but I thought it was said there was none?

Player A: war/whm /w Enmity+4 merits
Player B: whm/blm /w Enmity-1 merits
Player C: brd/whm

Player C pulled. Player A casts Silence, Player B casts Silence. Player C zones.
I can cure on player a and b alternatively to make the mob turn. If I put ares cuirass on Player A, and cure, it doesn't go back to player B until 22 cures. (tested twice) =x.

Aside from that, w/o cuirass:
Tomahawk made the mob turn toward Player A for 11 seconds. Tested three times.

Did you equip out the players to put them at equal Enmity? This is why it is just easiest to test these things with people who haven't messed with merits at all. Player A would need -5 Enmity equipped, or B with +5.

Player C does not need to zone if you use a higher CE spell, but I can see why they had to since you didn't have dispel available to override the pull hate.

Also, your first cure after equipping Cuirass also gives you a 3% HP bonus, so that Cure you're doing on yourself on Player A goes into Cure formula + the enmity involved added to the formula, and is no longer a 1CE cure.

[Kirschy]

Probably because the game truncates. Having 4 enmity merits is 1.04 x 1 CE = 1.04 CE. 1 CE must be equal to, or close enough to lowest possible value the game will recognize. It's easy to see when VE has reduced to 0, and I can trade targets /w only Cure 1 despite the small amount of enmity merits. It makes things slightly less accurate at higher values such as provoke or dispel though.

Ahh the 3% HP must be whats causing that. Thanks =x. Yea I have that weird blue helm from Biast /w Enmity-5 on it. I'll run a few more Tomahawk tests using that. I was just afraid it would complicate things if Enmity- is calculated seperately from Enmity+.

[Kirschy]

Tested Tomahawk 3 times /w Enmity-5 Helm on Player A. Turned for 10 seconds. So it must be 600 VE~

EDIT: Tested Sange too~
Player A: nin/whm /w Enmity-1 merit
Player B: whm/blm /w Enmity-1 merit
Player C: war/whm

Player C pulled, Player A casted Silence, Player B casted Silence, Player C zoned.

Player A and B alternated hate by casting cure. Player B cured two more times. Player A used Sange. Bee didn't turn at all. Player A casted cure, bee turned.

I guess Sange is 1 CE, and 0 VE

[Howard Roark]

[quote=Maxxthepenguin]

Yeah, I do a lot of fighting against Elementals, and Jelly mobs, so I'm regularly thinking... "man, if I could only do a little bit more damage to these things for like 30 seconds, this would all go much better."

Rocs, Corses, Doomed, Elementals, Flans, Ghosts, Hecteyes, Leeches, Mimics, Skeletons, Slimes. Take your pick, all have at least one type of damage resistance. Also like Spekkio said, it's great for Jailer of Temperance, especially when he decides to stay stuck on whatever damage type you're lacking most at the moment.

Sounds like Nyzul...

yeah i've gotten asked to use formless strikes like 3-4 times in the last week compared to 3-4 times in the last year, pissing me off but i'm considering ditching the chi blast mod (which i do enjoy while soloing..)

Wait, you use invigorate or mantra?[/quote:1nupxteu]

i always forget the names as they have no real correlation to what they do, but yeah i have the chakra mod and chi mod

i love them both for solo, vt sharks without the chi blast mod are noticeably more difficult

my choices were also influenced by the fact i never went monk to any hnm and didn't feel like getting the hp% + one for DL and bahav2 on the off chance I might be in the drk zerg PT, especially since I ended up being one of the swapping BRDs for baha anyway

and formless strikes is growing on me... as it seems to be needed more and more in nyzul (which I've been doing alot of) when I merited my mnk the only thing I could think of using it on was like.. elementals or w/e

the chakra mod is always nice, as I gain 600~hp back with 334 from chakra and 240 hp (10 per tic over 24 tics as it's 3/3)

[SamanosukeShiva]

you can nuke temperance too with tomahawk on, oshi....

[Kaeko]

Tested Tomahawk 3 times /w Enmity-5 Helm on Player A. Turned for 10 seconds. So it must be 600 VE~

EDIT: Tested Sange too~
Player A: nin/whm /w Enmity-1 merit
Player B: whm/blm /w Enmity-1 merit
Player C: war/whm

Player C pulled, Player A casted Silence, Player B casted Silence, Player C zoned.

Player A and B alternated hate by casting cure. Player B cured two more times. Player A used Sange. Bee didn't turn at all. Player A casted cure, bee turned.

I guess Sange is 1 CE, and 0 VE

Many thanks! Tell me if you get any more. Here's a list of missing ones I got that should be easy to test if you have access...

NIN
Monomi: Ichi

DRK
Absorb-ACC
Dread Spikes
Weapon Bash
Dark Seal
Diabolic Eye

SAM
Blade Bash
Shikikoyo

BST
Familiar
Reward *
Call Beast *
Tame *
Feral Howl
Killer Instinct

* You may run into problems testing this because pet will be out.

DRG
Spirit Surge
Call Wyvern
Spirit Link
Deep Breathing
Angon
Dismiss

PUP
Overdrive
Repair
Role Reversal
Ventriloquy (this will be hard to test)

Also just about all the DNC moves

[Kirschy]

I can go mess around /w most of those, I have some more free time now. Weapon Bash isn't going to work because it does damage.

Some of those look like they'll probably have high CE. If I remove the -1 Enmity on WHM, it'll be acceptable to cast some higher CE spell instead of casting Cure 1 80-300 times right =x?

[Kaeko]

I can go mess around /w most of those, I have some more free time now. Weapon Bash isn't going to work because it does damage.

Some of those look like they'll probably have high CE. If I remove the -1 Enmity on WHM, it'll be acceptable to cast some higher CE spell instead of casting Cure 1 80-300 times right =x?

Yea you can do that.

Also, Weapon Bash works. Bio, Bio II, Bio III, and Shield Bash are examples of moves that do damage but have fixed CE/VE.

[Kirschy]

I can go mess around /w most of those, I have some more free time now. Weapon Bash isn't going to work because it does damage.

Some of those look like they'll probably have high CE. If I remove the -1 Enmity on WHM, it'll be acceptable to cast some higher CE spell instead of casting Cure 1 80-300 times right =x?

Yea you can do that.

Also, Weapon Bash works. Bio, Bio II, Bio III, and Shield Bash are examples of moves that do damage but have fixed CE/VE.

Ahh I was unaware. I'll do testing on that too then. Do you know offhand if "Enhances Shield/Weapon Bash effect" changes the CE/VE?

[Kaeko]

I can go mess around /w most of those, I have some more free time now. Weapon Bash isn't going to work because it does damage.

Some of those look like they'll probably have high CE. If I remove the -1 Enmity on WHM, it'll be acceptable to cast some higher CE spell instead of casting Cure 1 80-300 times right =x?

Yea you can do that.

Also, Weapon Bash works. Bio, Bio II, Bio III, and Shield Bash are examples of moves that do damage but have fixed CE/VE.

Ahh I was unaware. I'll do testing on that too then. Do you know offhand if "Enhances Shield/Weapon Bash effect" changes the CE/VE?

No clue, wasn't tested. However, I would avoid having anything like that on in testing. My personal feel is that it wouldn't affect enmity though - can't think of anything that affects enmity other than the +/- enmity mod.

[wyred]

Has anyone tested to see if Aegis has a hidden enmity stat?

[Khelek]

Has anyone tested to see if Aegis has a hidden enmity stat?

or better yet; Excalibur! dududun!

[Kirschy]

The DRK stuff happend to be extremely easy to test. All of them happend to have CE values of 1, so I only needed to test for VE.

I changed a few things for these tests so let me run them by you:
I removed the Enmity-1 Merit from the whm/blm. 0 Enmity Merits.

Player A: drk/whm /w +4 Enmity Merits. Wore Buccaneer's belt(-4 Enmity) + Ares Cuirass.
Player B: whm/blm /w 0 Enmity Merits. Wore Noble's Tunic.
Player C: brd/whm

Abs-Acc:
1 CE, 600 VE

Weapon Bash: (Used Pluto's Staff)
1 CE, 900 VE

Weapon Bash: (Used Pluto's Staff + AF+1 Hands)
1 CE, 900 VE

Dark Seal:
1 CE, 300 VE

Diabolic Eye:
1 CE, 300 VE

Dread Spikes:
1 CE, 0 VE


Looking over the possible spells I can cast for CE increase on whm/blm, I'm pretti much stuck using cures for most stuff. I'll try testing a few more stuffs you have listed~

[Kirschy]

Monomi: Ichi is 80 CE. (Casting Cure 80 times sucks!). I didn't get a chance to test VE, last-minute late night salvage~