Enmity testing - Still Going!

[Kaeko]

Damage Dealt Modifiers
Lv40 Siege Bat: 80/30
Lv41 Siege Bat: 80/31
Lv42 Borer Beetle: 80/32
Lv43 Borer Beetle: 80/32
Lv44 Borer Beetle: 80/33

Hopefully I'll have time to do the Lv45-47 beetles in Crawler's Nest later this weekend.

Awesome.

Also, didn't you already have LVL45 at 80/33? I remember you posting this earlier.

EDIT: You had... Guardian Crawler LVL45 2.42 ~80/33

Also, I think I have a rough pattern if we follow the cure curve cutoffs at 1-9, 10-49, 50-X. I hope a couple more results can back it up.

Another thing... Can you post the damage you did the mob and the resultant CE for all your tests? I need it for documentation and completion purposes.

[Maxxthepenguin]

I just realized... We have a nearly complete view of enmity now. We have all of the important shit figured out, all that's left is some details. Major fucking grats to the entire community, especially Kaeko.

[Kaeko]

I'm still missing a lot of pet-related abilities in the Enmity Table. Also, after we're done with the formula stuff, I need to work on a lot of the little odd situations like linking, group aggro, etc.

Also, if anyone on Odin has access to Foe Sirvente or Guardian and would like to help test, /tell me in game or here please. I need to test those too. Shouldn't take more than 15-20 minutes.

[Xanthu]

I also had a friend wondering about damage-related thing, like shield bash and BLU spells, possibly having extra enmity.

Of course he could probably test it himself at this point.

[Kaeko]

I also had a friend wondering about damage-related thing, like shield bash and BLU spells, possibly having extra enmity.

Of course he could probably test it himself at this point.

Shield Bash has fixed Enmity unrelated to damage.

It's just straight 1 CE / 900 VE. Remember, not all things that do damage follow the damage formula. For instance, Bio I/II/II does not follow the formula and is just 1/320; but Dia does follow the damage formula.

If you'd like to test BLU spells to see if they do not follow the damage formula that would be great. I kind of just lumped them all together as damage formula, especially BLU moves, which I don't know a lot about. Something like Headbutt could easily be some fixed amount and not based on damage.

[Guppy]

One question regarding Enmity testing for the experts here -- In one of SE's previous Tribune postings they mentioned Mushroom foods are known for their -Enmity (Such as Mushroom Stew and Roast Mushrooms). While some have listed -Enmity values, there are a number of Mushroom foods for which no -Enmity is currently known, such as:

Mushroom Soup
Mushroom Sautee / Patriarch Sautee
Mushroom Salad / Cathedral Salad
Mushroom Risotto / Witch Risotto

In addition, Flounder Meuniere is known to have -Enmity, also from an SE Tribune posting. There are no mushrooms of any kind in this food, which makes me wonder if there is any possibility it is either a completely random addition, or associated with some other characteristic of the food. If it comes from some general food class trait, then possible links could be:

The "Meuniere" type of item: Salmon Meuniere and Bass Meuniere
The "Black Sole" ingredient": Sole Sushi (!), Sopa pez Blanco

There are other ingredients in the synth of course, but the remainder are very commonplace, so I would tend to doubt they are involved. If any testers are on Midgard I can cook some up for you.

[Ryoii/Nonomii]

I'm going soul dancing to live music tonight, so I won't be testing again until tomorrow. Ended up deciding to stay in Crawler's Nest for another hour to get Lv48-49. I had to use Nonomii's club skill to determine their level. I should be able to continue for many more levels since Nonomii's club and sword skills are only 42 levels apart and I can get more than 50 accuracy from gear. I'll keep recording the evasion of enemies as I go since I'm sure people might find the extra information interesting.

[Spekkio]

has any testing been done on how hydro shot dumps enmity? is it like hi-jump in that the mob must be targeting the player using it to gain the enmity reduction effect? does it only hit w/ CA/2HR? if not, it may be an effective way for a blu to vent CE in a long, protracted fight.

[Chupunpupun]

has any testing been done on how hydro shot dumps enmity? is it like hi-jump in that the mob must be targeting the player using it to gain the enmity reduction effect? does it only hit w/ CA/2HR? if not, it may be an effective way for a blu to vent CE in a long, protracted fight.

The times I've used it, I've gained more hate from the damage hydro shot does rather than losing hate. Either it doesn't proc like head butt's stun or the reduce enmity is so low, it's nothing to write home about.

[Kaeko]

Damage Dealt Modifiers
Lv36 Mimas: 80/28 - 549 DMG - 1568 CE
Lv40 Siege Bat: 80/30 - 178 DMG - 474 CE
Lv41 Siege Bat: 80/31 - 182 DMG - 471 CE
Lv42 Borer Beetle: 80/32 - 184 DMG - 460 CE
Lv43 Borer Beetle: 80/32 - 182 DMG - 455 CE
Lv44 Borer Beetle: 80/33 - 181 DMG - 438 CE
Lv45 Chamber Beetle: 80/33 - 403 DMG - 976 CE
Lv46 Chamber Beetle: 80/34 - 403 DMG - 948 CE
Lv47 Chamber Beetle: 80/35 - 403 DMG - 921 CE
Lv48 Soldier Crawler: 80/35 - 403 DMG - 921 CE
Lv49 Soldier Crawler: 80/36 - 417 DMG - 926 CE
Lv50 Hornfly: 80/37 - 426 DMG - 921 CE
Lv51 Hornfly: 80/37 - 426 DMG - 921 CE
Lv52 Hornfly: 80/38 - 439 DMG - 924 CE
Lv53 Hornfly: 80/38 - 439 DMG - 924 CE
Lv55 Drone Crawler: 80/40 (Not confident this is accurate)
Lv75 Steelshell: 80/52 (Not confident this is accurate)

Here is the formula so far:
f(x) = CE per damage dealt
f(x) = 80/floor[(3x+34)/5] if 36 <= x <= 49
f(x) = 80/[floor(3x/5)+7] if 50 <= x <= 75
where x is the level of the target being damaged

I'm getting much better at this. ^_^

Helps that I'm now able to use full HP and got a Martial Anelace.

Looks great. I think the pattern is going to provide cutoffs at 1-9, 10-49, and 50-all still. The 10-49 seems to be reasonably flushed out.

[Ryoii/Nonomii]

Damage Dealt Enmity Formula
f(x) = CE per damage dealt
f(x) = 80/[floor(31x/50)+6]
where x is the level of the target being damaged

This fits all of our data for Lv0, 1, 3, 4, 5, 16, 36, 40-53, 55, 75-77, and 79-80. I gave up on finding a Lv78 Catoblepas.

[Kaeko]

Damage Dealt Enmity Formula
f(x) = CE per damage dealt
f(x) = 80/[floor(31x/50)+6]
where x is the level of the target being damaged

This fits all of our data for Lv0, 1, 3, 4, 5, 16, 36, 40-53, 55, 75-77, and 79.

Raw data?

[Ryoii/Nonomii]

Go back to where I posted 40-49. I edited it to add the additional data. For the Catoblepas, I went as RDM/WHM (Nonomii) and SAM/RDM (Ryoii).

1. Ryoii determines Catoblepas' level with /check and polearm
2. Ryoii equips HP gear to produce correct Spirits Within damage
3. Ryoii equips a sword and uses Meditate three times for 300 TP
4. Nonomii cures Ryoii to full HP
3. Nonomii casts Stoneskin, Blink, Phalanx, and Refresh
5. Nonomii pulls Catoblepas with Gravity (201 CE)
6. Nonomii casts Sleep on Catoblepas (521 CE)
7. Ryoii casts Stoneskin and uses Third Eye (0 CE since not on hate list)
8. Ryoii uses Spirits Within on Catoblepas (840 CE)
9. Nonomii casts Sleep on Catoblepas (841 CE)
10. Catoblepas wakes up and attacks Nonomii
11. Ryoii casts Cure on herself for 0 HP and pulls hate off Nonomii (841 CE)
12. Ryoii and Nonomii proceed to kill Catoblepas and check XP earned

Once I had the formula, it was just a matter of finding the right gear to get my HP correct. I determined the enemy's level using /check and the normal evasion to low evasion change by adding accuracy gear. I then verified the enemy's level with the XP obtained after killing the enemy.

Amount of Accuracy Gear Required to go from Normal to Low Evasion
Lv76 Catoblepas: +21
Lv77 Catoblepas: +26
Lv79 Catoblepas: +35
Lv80 Catoblepas: +40

I still need to go back and calculate their exact evasion for people who are interested.

[Kaeko]

Your equation seems accurate over essentially the entire lvl base we tested. I think we may want to call it and use it unless you have any reservations. The only lvl I may want to look back to check / verify the formula is LVL2.

Great job!

[Ryoii/Nonomii]

Truly had fun, but I'm happy to be done. Always look forward to your Live Journal enmity updates. I also hope your Absolute Virtue strategy works. Might eventually go redo Lv16 just to be 99.9% sure the equation is perfect.

[Tubbers]

Nice work. Interesting to see it is based on level rather than HP for mobs.

[Kaeko]

I went ahead and updated the Enmity Table before posting the testing methods.

Damage Dealt: http://kanican.livejournal.com/31338.html

Damage Taken: http://kanican.livejournal.com/31613.html

I really need to get both of these and the Curing enmity page translated into Japanese, so if anyone would like to help me translate a couple of lines, that would be amazing.

[kayn]

Can we get these links posted on the first page/ first post so they're easy to find?

Thanks so much for all your work Kaeko!

[eva00r]

I've got some interesting conclusions from the formula.

For most NM that you fight in the end game, dealing more than 7500 damage will bring you very close to the CE hate cap, or capped the hate.

If you heals more than 13.7k damage, you're also likely to reach hate cap - This doesn't apply with Cure V.

Both amount can be doubled with -50 Enmity gear.

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Is there any aspect of enmity generation method that we still not cover yet ?

[Kaeko]

Formulas are complete; however, there are some abilities which have not been flushed out yet. Most jobs have all or only missing 1-2 moves, but SMN, BST, DRG, and DNC in particular are still missing a lot.

Certain enmity altering moves like Hydroshot, Guardian merits, Foe Sirvente, etc. are still undone as well. The biggest thing for me right now is going a model which accurately describes aggro and linking. That kind of thing takes a lot of very well defined testing though.

Still, for the purpose of trying to control hate etc., the formulas are all there now.

**************

It should be noted I think... that in most endgame fights, you are NOT capping CE. I see a lot of players doing these calculations for various situations and they just assume you will cap CE in 5 minutes, when it really never happens because of damage taken. Only in fights where you basically never get hit / take insignificant damage (like say NIN/DRK Tiamat with Fire resist), would you really cap CE reliably. Damage tanks like say MNK/NIN on salvage bosses would also cap fairly easily, but I doubt you'd find a PLD/NIN capping hate on like Ixion.