Enmity testing - Still Going!

[Yarko]

Not sure this is the right place to ask this but, would it be possible to make a windower plugin that calculates enmity for tanks?
At least for VE I think it's possible, plugins like Recast can already "read" the spells you cast, and that's enough to calculate VE. An option that lets you set the enmity+ you have in your standard tanking gear could also solve the enmity+ gear issue.
For CE and DDs enmity though, the plugin is required to read dmg dealt/received and i'm not sure that is possible. As a tank though, I think that knowing when you have reached 10.000 VE and +/- knowing what your VE is at has its uses.

[Toksyuryel]

Not sure this is the right place to ask this but, would it be possible to make a windower plugin that calculates enmity for tanks?
At least for VE I think it's possible, plugins like Recast can already "read" the spells you cast, and that's enough to calculate VE. An option that lets you set the enmity+ you have in your standard tanking gear could also solve the enmity+ gear issue.
For CE and DDs enmity though, the plugin is required to read dmg dealt/received and i'm not sure that is possible. As a tank though, I think that knowing when you have reached 10.000 VE and +/- knowing what your VE is at has its uses.

This could probably be possible for calculating your own enmity, unfortunately without knowing what enmity gear your party members are using at all times it'd be impossible to have it calculate anyone else's.

[Kilhart]

Sorry if this has been said somewhere, but for AoE actions (most notably for COR), are the CE and VE values listed for one (or two, depending on how the test was done) affected player only?

[Kaeko]

Sorry if this has been said somewhere, but for AoE actions (most notably for COR), are the CE and VE values listed for one (or two, depending on how the test was done) affected player only?

All moves are listed for CE/VE for 1 player hit. In all instances, you just multiply it by the number of players hit to find the real value. So 6 player Evoker's Roll is 1x6=6CE and 80x6=480VE.

[eva00r]

I've done a test.

You will get registered in hate list flag if you're in a party with a person who has hate, and get some effect by party-aoe spell casted by that person.

Party 1 engages spongilla fly and fight.
Person A in party 2 cure someone in party 1 to register himself in a hate list.
Person A use diffsion/exuviation to all ppl in party 2.
When spongilla fly uses ws move [Cursed Sphere], all people in party 1 & 2 will take damage.

[Toksyuryel]

I've done a test.

You will get registered in hate list flag if you're in a party with a person who has hate, and get some effect by party-aoe spell casted by that person.

Party 1 engages spongilla fly and fight.
Person A in party 2 cure someone in party 1 to register himself in a hate list.
Person A use diffsion/exuviation to all ppl in party 2.
When spongilla fly uses ws move [Cursed Sphere], all people in party 1 & 2 will take damage.

Repeat the test with the cure but without the AoE to be sure. I think as long as one person is on the hate list, everyone in their party can be hit with AoE attacks.

[LeifofKujata]

Best example is fafhogg. Only takes one person to cure, or what not, the claim ally to get hate on yours. Wings/breath will now hit your ally members, though they have 0 hate. They won't even recieve hate by curing that wing/breath damage, unless they cure the the person who got on the hate list(I call it "whisper down the lane" hate).

Great job kaeko and all others that put in effort, this is awesome stuff.

[Valyana]

I've done a test.

You will get registered in hate list flag if you're in a party with a person who has hate, and get some effect by party-aoe spell casted by that person.

Party 1 engages spongilla fly and fight.
Person A in party 2 cure someone in party 1 to register himself in a hate list.
Person A use diffsion/exuviation to all ppl in party 2.
When spongilla fly uses ws move [Cursed Sphere], all people in party 1 & 2 will take damage.

All people in Party 2 taking damage is not the same as all people in party 2 being on the hate list. If one person in your party is on the hate list, all will take damage from AoEs, they don't all have to be on the list.

[Kaeko]

All people in Party 2 taking damage is not the same as all people in party 2 being on the hate list. If one person in your party is on the hate list, all will take damage from AoEs, they don't all have to be on the list.

This is true, being on the 'hate list' as we've described it is not the same as being subjected to AoE attacks. As others have mentioned, take 1 person in your ally to cure someone fighting Fafhogg to subject your entire alliance to Wing, but if that group wiped, Fafhogg would only go after that person who cured assuming no one else did anything.

Certain mobs do actually put you on the 'hate list' just for being in party with someone that is on the hate list. Darters in Aery are a good example of this. Ivory Lizard in the leveling grounds in Yhoater Jungle are another. This is mob specific though so you can't make generalizations about it.

[Seraph]

Formulas are complete; however, there are some abilities which have not been flushed out yet. Most jobs have all or only missing 1-2 moves, but SMN, BST, DRG, and DNC in particular are still missing a lot.

Certain enmity altering moves like Hydroshot, Guardian merits, Foe Sirvente, etc. are still undone as well. The biggest thing for me right now is going a model which accurately describes aggro and linking. That kind of thing takes a lot of very well defined testing though.

Still, for the purpose of trying to control hate etc., the formulas are all there now.

I'm so interested in finding out if people can prove that Guardian reduces both CE and VE loss during it's duration, and not just one or the other. The percentage reduced is easy to figure out since it's listed (19% * number of merits), but I have yet to find someone who has done a good test on this. Anyone tried this yet?

[eva00r]

So you're saying there are separated 2 lists.
1) Hate list
2) Damage taken list

Correct ? (well or a Boolean flag)

[Kaeko]

So you're saying there are separated 2 lists.
1) Hate list
2) Damage taken list

Correct ? (well or a Boolean flag)

I don't like to really think about a 'damage taken list' at this point. I know something like this exists just by experience, but I don't really like to point anything out w/o a test to go with it. They may be seperate, or something else.

[Kaeko]

Trying to get a list of abilities, moves, job traits, etc. that either directly affect CE / VE, or affect the +/- enmity enhancement... So far I have...

Covered:
Adventurer's Dirge (-10 enmity, -3 extra per extra merit, up to -22)

Muted Soul
Foe Sirvente
Guardian
Hydro Shot
"Pax" (from Drink temp item)

Aren't there special modifications for PUP, BST, and SMN pets somewhere in there too? I especially don't know anything about PUP.

Also, I have DNC's Animated Flourish at 1/1500 CE/VE, but isn't it written that it gains more/less hate depending on charges? How do you determine how many charges an animated flourish takes? I need to see how I can most easily set up a test (hopefully using /DNC only).

I'm EXTREMELY interested in testing the relic gun WS (Annihilator WS "Coronach"), but this may be hard to test on my server (only 1 guy has it and he's JP). If anyone is willing to test this for me (or can beg someone with one into helping) that would be great. I think the effect is really strong but I'd like to put some type of # on it since we have damage numbers now.

The most interesting part of the testing is seeing how it affects game choices in my opinion. So these are really the important things as far as actual game-play.

[Conrad]

I think it's the...Gnostic's Drink? Whichever temporary item gives you Pax.

Problem is, that's only really available in Salvage (and I think Nyzul too), so it would be difficult to make time to figure out how much -enmity that gives.

edit: I just realized I don't think that's what you were asking for. On a side note, is the -enmity amount on that item known?

[Kaeko]

I think it's the...Gnostic's Drink? Whichever temporary item gives you Pax.

Problem is, that's only really available in Salvage (and I think Nyzul too), so it would be difficult to make time to figure out how much -enmity that gives.

edit: I just realized I don't think that's what you were asking for. On a side note, is the -enmity amount on that item known?

I don't think it's known. - enmity enhancement is incredibly fast to test though. I can do it in about 30 seconds with a partner.

[Motenten]

Also, I have DNC's Animated Flourish at 1/1500 CE/VE, but isn't it written that it gains more/less hate depending on charges? How do you determine how many charges an animated flourish takes? I need to see how I can most easily set up a test (hopefully using /DNC only).

Animated Flourish uses 2 finishing moves, unless you only have 1 left in which case it just uses 1. Since you get finishing moves in increments of 1 when subbing /dnc (whereas dnc main gets 2 per flourish), it should be very easy to test that way.

[Suiram]

Been a long while since I did a Besieged, but shouldn't you be able to use the gnostic's drink in there, then run outside and test on a colibri or a spider before it wears? I'm pretty sure that body boosts etc stay on after it ends, but maybe ending is different from zoning.

[Kaeko]

Animated Flourish uses 2 finishing moves, unless you only have 1 left in which case it just uses 1. Since you get finishing moves in increments of 1 when subbing /dnc (whereas dnc main gets 2 per flourish), it should be very easy to test that way.

Hm... I think I tested the 1/1500 value with Ashira's like /DNC at lvl20 so it was probably at only 1 charge? I'd be interested in seeing how high that goes with 2 charge. Seems like it would outdo provoke.

[Kaeko]

Been a long while since I did a Besieged, but shouldn't you be able to use the gnostic's drink in there, then run outside and test on a colibri or a spider before it wears? I'm pretty sure that body boosts etc stay on after it ends, but maybe ending is different from zoning.

Is this available in Campaign as well?

[Suiram]

I actually just went to a besieged after I posted this, no pax drink available but i popped giants, wizards, fanatics, and sprinters, and only sprinters stayed on after I zoned. I can check campaign rq, I don't know if they have gnostics though. Nyzul seems like the best bet.

Edit: No gnostics from Markets [S] NPC, unless it varies by zone, or by nation's resources statistics, or they add more items next patch.