Enmity testing - Still Going!

[Kaeko]

I actually just went to a besieged after I posted this, no pax drink available but i popped giants, wizards, fanatics, and sprinters, and only sprinters stayed on after I zoned. I can check campaign rq, I don't know if they have gnostics though. Nyzul seems like the best bet.

Edit: No gnostics from Markets [S] NPC, unless it varies by zone, or by nation's resources statistics, or they add more items next patch.

Guess nyzul would be easiest.

Also a bit off topic, but do relic gun rngs even use coronach? I was thinking if I could peg down the - enmity value and it was sufficiently high, you could have a RNG/WAR spamming on HNMs with -50 enmity if you add in a full LVL5 Dirge. Would be pretty impressive.

[Valyana]

There's a relic gun RNG in my LS, I'll try to set up some testing.

And yes, he uses Coronach pretty regularly.

[Kirschy]

I'm interested in seeing tests on the Yochi WS. Although it doesn't say anything about reduced Enmity, from what I heard and seen the WS generates very little enmity and is easy to spam. Since it seems to only affect the WS, and you've deduced the damage-enmity formula it should be easy to compare the expected enmity to actual enmity.

[Kaeko]

I'm interested in seeing tests on the Yochi WS. Although it doesn't say anything about reduced Enmity, from what I heard and seen the WS generates very little enmity and is easy to spam. Since it seems to only affect the WS, and you've deduced the damage-enmity formula it should be easy to compare the expected enmity to actual enmity.

I've heard things about the bow WS. It seems like on Bow, the enmity gained on the WS damage itself is lowered? By the looks of the Coronarch description, it would add some type of status effect similar to dirge.

Easiest way to test this if you have Relic Gun...

Use Conorach to verify that there is some extra status effect after using it...

If you have 3 players to test... RNG/RDM, + any job + any job with dispel

If it does, you can test this in Saruta / North Gusta / Ronf. easily. Just get 100 TP, use Conorach and 1 shot a mob to get the status effect. 3rd party player pulls a mob with silence. RNG/RDM dispels (with that Conorach added effect). Other RDM matches dispel or tries to balance it out. RDM/BRD is easiest.

Assuming there is some - enmity on it, the dispel will generate less than 320 CE. Using a RDM/BRD to then balance hate in 20 CE chunks (any song) works. Also, I'm pretty sure if it works like this, you would get progressively higher - enmity at 100, 200, and 300 TP.

The Bow WS you would actually need to test on something that could survive a shot.

[Sargas]

Aren't there special modifications for PUP, BST, and SMN pets somewhere in there too? I especially don't know anything about PUP.

Breeder's set gives an unspecified amount of +enmity to the pet, but I don't know if a full set exists anywhere. There are also those pieces of SMN equipment with avatar enmity + or -.

As far as PUP goes, the Stealth Screen attachment gives the puppet -enmity (dependent on water maneuvers) and the Strobe gives it +enmity (dependent on fire maneuvers). I think there do exist precise numbers on these attachments from some JP source, though, but I don't remember where I saw it.

It might also be worth checking if Snarl does anything funny. I remember someone on alla speculating that it took the BST's enmity and gave it to the pet only as CE (for example, BST has 1000 CE and 2000 VE, uses Snarl and now his jug pet gains 3000 CE). I don't think that's the case, or if it was then SE changed it, but it should be easy to test.

[Suiram]

It's plainly apparent from eyeballing that Namas has a low, fixed enmity value or significant enmity reduction on the WS itself. I would think the benefit to the gun would be the ability to alternate Coronach with Slug for higher overall damage output without hate concerns, assuming the aftereffect lasts long enough.

[Kaeko]

It's plainly apparent from eyeballing that Namas has a low, fixed enmity value or significant enmity reduction on the WS itself. I would think the benefit to the gun would be the ability to alternate Coronach with Slug for higher overall damage output without hate concerns, assuming the aftereffect lasts long enough.

I didn't realize the bow enmity effect (hidden?) was so strong. It shouldn't be hard at all to test with the damage formula known, but would need a relic bow user. Is the damage on Namas as good as slug/sidewinder?

[Suiram]

I tend to keep party/alliance damage filters on, but my understanding is that it's not as good damage-wise. And I didn't mean to say that the bow itself had any enmity modifications, in fact judging by hate from Sidewinder spam I don't think it does, only the relic WS itself.

[Byrthnoth]

The bow relic WS is essentially hateless. There have been rumors of RDMs pulling hate off relic SAM/WARs who have just hit a 1k Namas on Birds by casting Dia. If there is an enmity down cap, I assure you that the bow relic WS breaks it.

There is right next to no information on any of the FL Armor sets, though their set bonuses are all intriguing. I personally have Breeder Mask, but I'm Mufflers and a job that can equip them away from being able to do any testing. But really, the BLM/DRK set, Pet set, and Bowman's Ledelsens all look useful/interesting to me. I imagine the Carline set has potential for BRDs too? WHERE IS THE INFO ON THIS SHIZ?

[Lyramion]

A JP named "Tetsuo" is spamming Hydra FL to complete his Rellic BOW SAM set. He is shouting every day - so far must be 0/30

[Byrthnoth]

Similarly, Kwontess of Garuda is spamming Khim for the mask as well with about an equal record.

Personally, I'd love the Vampiric set, Breeder Mufflers, and Bowman's Ledelsens (Fire resist set on RDM), for testing/practical use. I've heard rumors supposedly from JP info sites that the FL armor set bonuses are very potent, but I've never met anyone who has seen a complete set so short of JP ESP I can't see how they'd know that.

[Kaeko]

Can anyone find someone willing to test with a relic bow?

[Tsuko_Asura]

Just for reference, I had a friend on another server who will actively merit on his Yoichi Ranger. He told me that he could pull a Greater Colibri with Namas Arrow, and that a Ninja casting Kuryami(sp?) would get hate off of him instantly.

[Kabbalah]

The times I've used it, I've gained more hate from the damage hydro shot does rather than losing hate. Either it doesn't proc like head butt's stun or the reduce enmity is so low, it's nothing to write home about.

I was wondering about this. If the enmity reduction is a static value, maybe the key is to lower the damage from hydro shot?

[Yarko]

I've always wondered what happens to hate on Proto-Ultima during CB phase... anybody have a clue? It could be useful to find out whether CE or VE have a way faster decay rate or not work at all or whatever it could be causing the random-ish hate

[Suiram]

Tested Namas hate with Fival from my LS on his DRK account, dualboxing the Yoichi account he has access to while the owner is taking a break from the game. Used spiders by the OP in North Gustaburg [S]. CE seems fixed at 160. Didn't get a chance to nail down VE precisely, but assuming it's fixed it's between 340 and 481. I was on 75BLU/11BRD.

For the CE tests, had SAM meditate before pull. DRK pulled spider, linked a second one. SAM Namas the link (949dmg first time, 933 second). I Magic Fruited SAM 0 HP, then played Minne/Minuet/Madrigal until I kept hate, it took 8 songs in the first trial. Then SAM third eye'd and had hate. Second trial, did the same thing, except that I chaotic eye'd it (also 1 CE), and to make it go faster I let the songs hit both myself and the SAM. After 4 songs I had hate, then Third Eye put hate back on the SAM, then 0 HP Magic Fruit put it back on me, then Defender put it back on him, then we killed.

For the VE tests, DRK pulled a spider, I cast Actinic Burst and Blank Gaze (500 total CE), we waited about 45 seconds, then SAM Namas 950dmg, it looked at him for a moment and then went back to me, so VE was greater than 340. Then DRK pulled another spider, I chaotic eye'd, then Exuviation, (641 total CE), waited about 30 seconds then SAM Namas 909dmg, it didn't look at him at all, so VE was less than 481.

[Kaeko]

Tested Namas hate with Fival from my LS on his DRK account, dualboxing the Yoichi account he has access to while the owner is taking a break from the game. Used spiders by the OP in North Gustaburg [S]. CE seems fixed at 160. Didn't get a chance to nail down VE precisely, but assuming it's fixed it's between 340 and 481. I was on 75BLU/11BRD.

For the CE tests, had SAM meditate before pull. DRK pulled spider, linked a second one. SAM Namas the link (949dmg first time, 933 second). I Magic Fruited SAM 0 HP, then played Minne/Minuet/Madrigal until I kept hate, it took 8 songs in the first trial. Then SAM third eye'd and had hate. Second trial, did the same thing, except that I chaotic eye'd it (also 1 CE), and to make it go faster I let the songs hit both myself and the SAM. After 4 songs I had hate, then Third Eye put hate back on the SAM, then 0 HP Magic Fruit put it back on me, then Defender put it back on him, then we killed.

For the VE tests, DRK pulled a spider, I cast Actinic Burst and Blank Gaze (500 total CE), we waited about 45 seconds, then SAM Namas 950dmg, it looked at him for a minute and then went back to me, so VE was greater than 340. Then DRK pulled another spider, I chaotic eye'd, then Exuviation, (641 total CE), waited about 30 seconds then SAM Namas 909dmg, it didn't look at him at all, so VE was less than 481.

If the CE is a static 160 CE, the best number for VE would be 480 (x3 the CE value, similar to damage formula). Also, when you calculate VE by "does it look at you" method, it's a bit hard to tell since you can actually have higher TE at the moment of hit, but it may not turn because the mob chooses targets on some periodic system.

This seems absolutely broken... Most 'endgame' things fall around 85-88, which is around a 1.333 / 4.000 CE/VE modifier. If you do a 1000 Namas, you're getting 160 CE instead of a whopping 1333...

How strong is Namas Arrow on endgame mobs compared to sidewinder/slugshot? RNG/WAR on endgame HNM can deal a pretty significant amount of damage (where hate is almost always an issue if the mob lasts more than 5 minutes). Namas spammage seems like it would be incredible on this (maybe people already knew this).

[Suiram]

He said in his experience, sidewinder blows it away. "Ixion for example, namas will do 700-800 damage, sidewinder 1100-1400". (This is on RNG btw, he was just SAM for the testing)

[Zephyre]

Similarly, Kwontess of Garuda is spamming Khim for the mask as well with about an equal record.

Personally, I'd love the Vampiric set, Breeder Mufflers, and Bowman's Ledelsens (Fire resist set on RDM), for testing/practical use. I've heard rumors supposedly from JP info sites that the FL armor set bonuses are very potent, but I've never met anyone who has seen a complete set so short of JP ESP I can't see how they'd know that.

This is hardly evidence but I have both of the Vampiric set pieces and I can't tell the difference when I use them or not. I've never once broken the aspir cap (believe it's 120 not counting staff and day/weather?) with the mitts and boots on, so if it does anything, it increases accuracy only. When I first got them (around the time FL came out), I did about 30 tests with and without the set and noticed no change in the mean aspir return. Just recently I acquired Morrigan's Cuffs so I've now stopped using the vampiric pieces to save inventory spaces, but I never noticed any difference with or without the set. Some day when I get a chance maybe I'll go take a larger sample and see if I can get some better results.

[Kaeko]

He said in his experience, sidewinder blows it away. "Ixion for example, namas will do 700-800 damage, sidewinder 1100-1400". (This is on RNG btw, he was just SAM for the testing)

I guess this makes it more balanced. Still it seems odd to find WS with fixed CE/VE, especially when SE gave no notice of it.