Enmity testing - Still Going!

[Kaeko]

Thanks for these tests. Getting 10k CE repeatedly sucks so I appreciate the effort!

EDITED:

I set up an excel file to try to get the CE and TP modifiers down potentially. I need these series of tests:

Repeat the below each time at exactly 100, 150, 200, 250, and 300 TP:

Series of 3 tests: getting a specific amount of CE at an exact TP amount then checking damage

(1) 3 dispels (960CE)
(2) 6 dispels (1920CE)
(3) 20+ dispels (6,600CE+)

What I'm looking for is the cap at a given TP amount (given by #3), and the exact CE damage modifier (which I can hopefully get with #1 and #2). I need the CE to be higher than 320 to get a more accurate modifier. Should be 3x5=15 tests total.

[Shamaya]

Would have made sense for them to give Dnc more CE in their moves yeah?

I wouldn't rule out dnc as a situational tank though. I wouldn't call it particularly amazing, but I've had Dnc tank on MMM bosses before. Still a viable low man tank like other classes. Add a trick attack and it's even more viable.

[Kaeko]

Would have made sense for them to give Dnc more CE in their moves yeah?

I wouldn't rule out dnc as a situational tank though. I wouldn't call it particularly amazing, but I've had Dnc tank on MMM bosses before. Still a viable low man tank like other classes. Add a trick attack and it's even more viable.

Yea I had really high hopes for DNC, especially for some of those flourishes. Can't believed they all practically ended up 1/0. SE clearly did not intend for DNC to get hate.

[Shinryuu]

DNC is the best supertank though, with the Sentinel dance, some PDT, and getting hit + Reverse Flourish for TP cures. /BLU, some PDT gear.

[Therin]

I'm working on these tests now and will post them here when I'm done.

[Kaeko]

I have 4 enmity merits~ I used that -4 Enmity RNG Belt from Ein~

Pulled /w Player B.
I casted Dispel.
Waited ~30 secs.
Atonement @ 100tp - 29 Damage

Repeated twice.

Pulled /w Player B.
I casted Dispel.
Waited ~30 secs.
Atonement @ 200tp - 35 Damage

Accidently repeated the test without the -4 Enmity Belt...

Atonement @ 200tp - 36 Damage

Gonna try test 2 /w 200 TP and capped CE with dispel~

@Failure, What do you mean by test with more? More TP?

Red Bold value appears contradictory to Therin's results unless there's a hidden modifier I think.

@100TP, 320 CE giving 29 damage implies that the modifier is between 29/320 and (29+1)/320 or a range of

0.09063 to 0.09375

Therin's results 960 giving 86 and 1920 giving 172 give ranges of

0.08958 to 0.09063
0.08958 to 0.09010

It 'should' have been 28 damage; however, if it's really not then might have to go back to the drawing board.

[Therin]

I just repeated Kirschy's test (pulled with alternate, casted 1 Dispel, waited 30 seconds) and hit for 28 damage.

http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/6565/atonement4.jpg

Not sure what could be causing the damage difference there (guessing maybe he had 101% TP by accident, or something?), but I think it should be 28.

[Kaeko]

I just repeated Kirschy's test (pulled with alternate, casted 1 Dispel, waited 30 seconds) and hit for 28 damage.

thanks! we're on the right track

[Therin]

Come to think of it, we know you can have fractional TP (e.g. a weapon which gains 10.5 TP per swing will show as 10 TP after the first swing and 21 TP after the second swing), do you think it's possible that he had 100.x% TP and it was enough to bump it up by 1 more damage? I'm not sure if a WS would take that fraction into account, or just floor it to the nearest whole number (I would assume the latter but who knows?).

[Kaeko]

Come to think of it, we know you can have fractional TP (e.g. a weapon which gains 10.5 TP per swing will show as 10 TP after the first swing and 21 TP after the second swing), do you think it's possible that he had 100.x% TP and it was enough to bump it up by 1 more damage? I'm not sure if a WS would take that fraction into account, or just floor it to the nearest whole number (I would assume the latter but who knows?).

Good thought actually... might be best to have Kirschy repeat his test when he's available (same weapon especially). We do know fractional TP exists, so maybe we should make sure we get straight up 5 TP swing weapons for this.

[Therin]

Good thought actually... might be best to have Kirschy repeat his test when he's available (same weapon especially). We do know fractional TP exists, so maybe we should make sure we get straight up 5 TP swing weapons for this.

You'd need exactly 180 delay to get 5.0 TP per swing and there's not a sword in the game with delay that low. =/

An Icarus Wing used with 0 STP gear is probably the only way to assure that you'd have exactly 100% TP, and that really limits testing with the 2 hour medicated effect. Shikikoyo would work too but I don't have access to that ability on either of my characters.

[pahnphoenix]

Come to think of it, we know you can have fractional TP (e.g. a weapon which gains 10.5 TP per swing will show as 10 TP after the first swing and 21 TP after the second swing), do you think it's possible that he had 100.x% TP and it was enough to bump it up by 1 more damage? I'm not sure if a WS would take that fraction into account, or just floor it to the nearest whole number (I would assume the latter but who knows?).

i'd be surprised if it's not the former. easy-ish test with spirits within?

edit: re: icarus wing/shiki, opo-opo necklace + sleeping pots?

[Byrthnoth]

Lamian Kaman + Wooden Arrow and 0 STP gets 10.0 TP/hit.

[Therin]

Lamian Kaman + Wooden Arrow and 0 STP gets 10.0 TP/hit.

For once I wish I had the NQ. . .

But, thanks for the idea! Kaman +1 and Scorpion Arrow with +10 STP is exactly 10.0 TP/hit.

[Kirschy]

I went back through my logs and saw that one was for 29 and the other was for 28. .

[18:36:05]Kirschy starts casting Dispel on the Huge Hornet.

[18:36:09]The Huge Hornet misses Kirschy.

[18:36:13]Kirschy's Dispel has no effect on the Huge Hornet.

[18:36:15]The Huge Hornet misses Kirschy.

[18:36:22]The Huge Hornet misses Kirschy.

[18:36:27]The Huge Hornet hits Kirschy for 0 points of damage.

[18:36:33]The Huge Hornet misses Kirschy.

[18:36:40]The Huge Hornet misses Kirschy.

[18:36:45]The Huge Hornet misses Kirschy.

[18:36:45]Kirschy readies Atonement.

[18:36:49]Kirschy uses Atonement.

[18:36:49]The Huge Hornet takes 29 points of damage.

[18:36:49]Kirschy hits the Huge Hornet for 110 points of damage.

[18:36:50]Kirschy defeats the Huge Hornet.

[18:52:17]Kirschy starts casting Dispel on the Huge Hornet.

[18:52:23]The Huge Hornet misses Kirschy.

[18:52:25]Kirschy's Dispel has no effect on the Huge Hornet.

[18:52:29]The Huge Hornet hits Kirschy for 0 points of damage.

[18:52:35]The Huge Hornet misses Kirschy.

[18:52:41]The Huge Hornet hits Kirschy for 0 points of damage.

[18:52:48]The Huge Hornet misses Kirschy.

[18:52:53]The Huge Hornet misses Kirschy.

[18:53:00]The Huge Hornet misses Kirschy.

[18:53:01]Kirschy readies Atonement.

[18:53:02]Kirschy does not have enough TP.

[18:53:02]Unable to use weapon skill.

[18:53:05]Kirschy uses Atonement.

[18:53:05]The Huge Hornet takes 28 points of damage.

[18:53:05]Kirschy scores a critical hit!

[18:53:05]The Huge Hornet takes 152 points of damage.

[18:53:06]Kirschy defeats the Huge Hornet.

I gained most of my tp by hitting /w joy, and gained the last few TP using berserker's torque, so I might have had a few tenths of a TP over 100 if it affects it. I also only used Atonement wear -enmity belt + sword. (Although I doubt that affects it.)

Sorry about not catching that before =/. I has more classes in a few, and then events tonite, so I won't be able to put in some more testing until tomorrow. Maybe I can repeat my tests to see if I can figure out why I got 29 damage instead of 28~

[Spekkio]

you could always just slap on a berserker's torque and wait... a lot. would only need to cure back 5000 HP for 100 tp too!

[Therin]

All done! Took me ~2 hours and 30 minutes. <_<

Atonement Testing

All tests done with +0 Enmity (+4 Enmity Merits, -4 Enmity Food), at the precise level of TP with the listed amount of enmity, on level 0 mobs to assure no loss of cumulative enmity. All monsters were pulled with my alternate character, and I waited for VE to decay in each case.

(Pardon the gear, I had to wear stuff with stats irrelevant to the tests.)

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/1953/atonement1.png

(1) (3 Dispels, 960 CE)
100 TP: 86 damage
150 TP: 96 damage
200 TP: 105 damage
250 TP: 148 damage
300 TP: 192 damage

http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/4594/atonement2.png

(2) (6 Dispels, 1920 CE)
100 TP: 172 damage
150 TP: 192 damage
200 TP: 212 damage
250 TP: 297 damage
300 TP: 384 damage

We're seeing at this point that TP DOES allow us to break the cap! The next part should have exciting results!

(3) (20+ Dispels, 6,600+ CE)
100 TP: 360 damage
150 TP: 400 damage
200 TP: 440 damage
250 TP: 620 damage
300 TP: 750 damage

[Kaeko]

Just got back home and here are the various ranges for the modifiers. Were these done using the Kaman+1 + Scorpion Arrow to ensure exact 100.0TP or using Joytoy? Either way, these mods will be close if not exact ranges so they are really good results.

@100TP: CAP 360 ; MOD 0.0896 - 0.0901 (0.09?)
@150TP: CAP 400 ; MOD 0.1000 - 0.1005 (0.10?)
@200TP: CAP 440 ; MOD 0.1104 - 0.1104 (error somewhere in here)
@250TP: CAP 620 ; MOD 0.1547 - 0.1552 (0.15?)
@300TP: CAP 750 ; MOD 0.2000 - 0.2005 (0.20?)

*****************

Just from eyeballing, it seems like most of these modifiers have very 'easy' numbers except for @200TP, which I am sure there is an error in because the range is nonexistent.

Is there some explanation as to how the modifiers seem to scale higher after 200TP? Something to do with fTP maybe? I'm not an expert in melee formulas so I'm not the best person to come with ideas on this. The cap scaling is interesting as well, and could possibly explain why the Atonement total damage cap is 720 at 100TP but quickly scales to 750.

[FailureMidgard]

Just got back home and here are the various ranges for the modifiers. Were these done using the Kaman+1 + Scorpion Arrow to ensure exact 100.0TP or using Joytoy? Either way, these mods will be close if not exact ranges so they are really good results.

@100TP: CAP 360 ; MOD 0.0896 - 0.0901 (0.09?)
@150TP: CAP 400 ; MOD 0.1000 - 0.1005 (0.10?)
@200TP: CAP 440 ; MOD 0.1104 - 0.1104 (error somewhere in here)
@250TP: CAP 620 ; MOD 0.1547 - 0.1552 (0.15?)
@300TP: CAP 750 ; MOD 0.2000 - 0.2005 (0.20?)

*****************

Just from eyeballing, it seems like most of these modifiers have very 'easy' numbers except for @200TP, which I am sure there is an error in because the range is nonexistent.

Is there some explanation as to how the modifiers seem to scale higher after 200TP? Something to do with fTP maybe? I'm not an expert in melee formulas so I'm not the best person to come with ideas on this. The cap scaling is interesting as well, and could possibly explain why the Atonement total damage cap is 720 at 100TP but quickly scales to 750.

It's generally accepted that most WSes have a possibly different slope from 100>200 than from 200>300

Y/G/K for example are:
100%TP 200%TP 300%TP
1.5625 1.875 2.50

It should be linear between 100>200, and linear between 200>300 though.

[Kaeko]

It's generally accepted that most WSes have a possibly different slope from 100>200 than from 200>300

Y/G/K for example are:
100%TP 200%TP 300%TP
1.5625 1.875 2.50

It should be linear between 100>200, and linear between 200>300 though.

The fact that it's generally linear sort of establishes our ranges then right?

For instance, caps from 100 to 200 tp go from 360 to 440, so it's safe to assume +1TP = +0.8 to the damage cap? For 200 to 300 tp, it goes from 440 to 620 to X (probably capped earlier), so it's +1TP = 3.6 to damage cap.

Would this be evidence for a fTP value of say 1.0 from 100-200TP and fTP = 4.0 from 200-300TP?