Enmity testing - Still Going!

[Kaeko]

I just finished my Light Gorget so I'm good to do some additional testing on Atonement if necessary. Just post here what you're looking for and I'll see it done.

I'm actually not sure what tests would be best to nail down the fTP values based on the CE data. Spekkio, Suiram or FM would know better; however, I did have some easy VE tests. I'll repost:

Here are some simple tests for VE:

Mainly I want to look for 2 things in these tests - (1) the caps generated by varying amounts of TP, and (2) if the modifiers are similar to CE. If the modifiers are similar, then it would be really nice since we could just focus on CE and then apply it similarly to VE. Also, VE is much more difficult in terms of precision since it's constantly decaying at a rate we cannot really measure precisely.

(1) Tests for VE Component Caps at various TP amounts:

Build X TP using a ranged / arrow combo that gives exactly 10.0 TP.
Have a 2nd player pull a mob with Silence/Slow/(1CE gainer).
Have PLD cure puller for 0 HP to get on hate list (+1CE).
Have PLD Sentinel > 2hr > Atonement in quick succession.
Note Damage.

We would expect these caps to be the same as the CE caps. Because this requires a 2hr, this one is annoying. We do already know that at 100TP the cap is 360 from Therin's old tests. Values at 150, 200, 250, and 300 would be great though.

(2) Test for estimating VE modifiers at various TP amounts.

Repeat the procedure above but do not use 2hr. Simply use Sentinel then Atonement. This will give you roughly 1800 assuming no enmity gear changes. If you Atonement in quick succession it'll be about ~1700 VE when you do it. We can hopefully determine if these modifiers mimic the CE modifiers we got. If they do I would feel safe calling them the same.

I'm really hoping that the VE modifier ends up the same as CE, but I'm sort of not expecting it to be

EDIT:

Also, can you redo the test where you build 6 dispels of hate (while not pulling) (1920CE) and atonement at 100 and 200TP?

[Thalandor46]

Do blinding potions bring the jump accuracy to 0%?

Jump and High Jump accuracy, unless specifically stated in gear, is the same as regular melee accuracy, so blinding potions should help.

[Kirschy]

Regarding the HJ tests, I can confirm that the HJ enmity down works even when the mob is not looking at you; however, I don't know about missing/hitting affecting it. It always hit when we tested.

Do blinding potions bring the jump accuracy to 0%?

Blinding Potions are -256 acc according to other wiki, and from own testing that appears to be right. Unfortunately, even with 0 acc, you still have base hit rate of like 20% or something, which is annoying.

[nivlakian]

Regarding the HJ tests, I can confirm that the HJ enmity down works even when the mob is not looking at you; however, I don't know about missing/hitting affecting it. It always hit when we tested.

Do blinding potions bring the jump accuracy to 0%?

I can confirm that a missed High Jump still sheds enmity. There was another test that I did trying to ensure it was -30% instead of a weird fraction (76/256 or 77/256) when subbed that had HJ miss.

Sydok and I just tried a crab in Pashhow (S)...
I dispel pulled and cured myself for 0 once (521 CE)
Then i used HJ which missed.
He sleepga x2 then cured me for 0. On the 5th time he got hate.

-76/256 would have predicted 366 CE
-30% predicts 364 CE (rounded down, same CE as the previous test)

However, it was 365 CE for Sydok to gain hate both times. So, from this i think we can rule out 76/256 and it seems more likely that jumping is +1 CE.

Did you end up with +1CE for using High Jump in your tests?

[Kaeko]

I can confirm that a missed High Jump still sheds enmity. There was another test that I did trying to ensure it was -30% instead of a weird fraction (76/256 or 77/256) when subbed that had HJ miss.



Did you end up with +1CE for using High Jump in your tests?

Actually I did but chopped it up to rounding error... hmmm

[RyaWHM]

It doesn't.

Thanks Kaeko! good to know!

[Yugl]

Does the hate reduction come before or after the hate from damage is initiated?

[HBX]

Hate to derail the tests that are already going on (especially since I'm very interested in the Atonement and High Jump results), but just had a quick question. Is the enmity generated by a Cure V affected at all by Divine Seal (other than the 1CE and 80VE from the ability itself) or does it only affect the enimity for the lesser tier cures whose hate is based on the amount cured?

[Kaeko]

Hate to derail the tests that are already going on (especially since I'm very interested in the Atonement and High Jump results), but just had a quick question. Is the enmity generated by a Cure V affected at all by Divine Seal (other than the 1CE and 80VE from the ability itself) or does it only affect the enimity for the lesser tier cures whose hate is based on the amount cured?

Cure V is a static gain. Therefore the amount you actually cure in HP is irrelevant. So the answer is no, Divine Seal has no effect on Cure V hate. It should be noted too, though, that Divine Seal doesn't necessarily have an effect on Cure 1-4 either - if you're curing someone who's only 300 HP from max with a Cure 4, adding Divine Seal to that cure still results in only 300 HP cured - which means the same enmity generated.

Does the hate reduction come before or after the hate from damage is initiated?

Occurs after from what I saw. My tests actually had 2-4 damage HJs so I was able to tell.

[FailureMidgard]

I just finished my Light Gorget so I'm good to do some additional testing on Atonement if necessary. Just post here what you're looking for and I'll see it done.

Just need a lot more data.

Test @ 100.0 TP with no gorget, then test again at 100.0 TP with gorget.

Just need this repeated to narrow down the range. Start with as high of a CE as you can get without hitting any caps, then repeat at various enmity values, but ya, higher enmity will make it easier to see smaller variations, so ideally we want the atonements in the 300 damage range?

[Suiram]

To elaborate on what Failure said with some specific ideas. I would try 10 dispels without+with gorget. Then depending on how much more time you want to devote to this, can repeat with 11, 12, then 9. That should hopefully get us the exact value (or narrow down to only a couple). Make sure to be exactly 100.0 using torque if you can.

Also, if you wouldn't mind trying my test from last page regarding the enmity cap (doesn't involve gorget). Try getting 4000 enmity, doing 100.0% TP no gorget. see if it's 360 or something lower. If it's lower, try doing it with 4010, to see if it's 360, if it's 360, try 3990 to see if it's lower, etc, until you narrow down the exact CE value where you get 360 damage at 100.0% TP

To save you some effort, I looked at the easiest way to get 4000 CE without spending an hour self-curing. If you can get exactly +25 enmity, you could do 10 dispels > change gear so you're back at +/-0 enmity > atonement.

If you can't get exactly +25, just use +4. 12 dispels will get you to 3984. Then go back to +/-0 enmity and self-cure for 0 16 times until 4000. This will also be useful for getting to 3990+ if the 4000 value happens to be 360.

Edit: Actually, the enmity+4 way is probably the safest, because doing +25, the more gear you add there's always the risk that some piece of gear is mislabeled as to its actual +enmity value. With +4 you could just unequip whatever you've used to negate your merits, then reequip it for the self-cure portion (although be mindful of changes in your max HP if the gear you use has +/-HP on it, for when you're going to cure for 0).

[Suiram]

I know this is probably better suited to a general WS thread (or a Random Fact thread!) but someone asked about it earlier in this thread. It does appear that fTP uses tenths-place TP values.

I used Spirits Within to test, which is 32/256 at 100%, 48/256 at 200%, and 120/256 at 300%.

On BLU with 1253 HP for all WSs, I used Fragarach (base TP 6.4), with /SAM sub, and brutal (Store TP+16) for 7.4 TP/hit, and swung 16 times for a total of 118.4 TP.

I used Koggelmander (6.0 TP), with /WAR sub, Store TP set from spells and no brutal (Store TP+10) for 6.6 TP/hit, and swung 18 times for a total of 118.8 TP.

Finally (although not really necessary for this) I used Frag (6.4) /WAR, Store TP from spells and no brutal (agan, +10) for 7.0 TP/hit, and swung 17 times for 119.0 TP.

Damage was,
118.4: 166
118.8: 171
119.0: 171


This works out, as was said in an earlier post, as a step function that approximates a linear function.

[1253 * (32 + [(48-32) * ((118.4-100)/100))]/256] = [1253 * 34/256] = 166
[1253 * (32 + [(48-32) * ((118.8-100)/100))]/256] = [1253 * 35/256] = 171
[1253 * (32 + [(48-32) * ((119.0-100)/100))]/256] = [1253 * 35/256] = 171

So, in tests for Atonement (and any WS), it's important to record the exact TP used, to the tenth of a percent.

[FailureMidgard]

I know this is probably better suited to a general WS thread (or a Random Fact thread!) but someone asked about it earlier in this thread. It does appear that fTP uses tenths-place TP values.

I used Spirits Within to test, which is 32/256 at 100%, 48/256 at 200%, and 120/256 at 300%.

On BLU with 1253 HP for all WSs, I used Fragarach (base TP 6.4), with /SAM sub, and brutal (Store TP+16) for 7.4 TP/hit, and swung 16 times for a total of 118.4 TP.

I used Koggelmander (6.0 TP), with /WAR sub, Store TP set from spells and no brutal (Store TP+10) for 6.6 TP/hit, and swung 18 times for a total of 118.8 TP.

Finally (although not really necessary for this) I used Frag (6.4) /WAR, Store TP from spells and no brutal (agan, +10) for 7.0 TP/hit, and swung 17 times for 119.0 TP.

Damage was,
118.4: 166
118.8: 171
119.0: 171


This works out, as was said in an earlier post, as a step function that approximates a linear function.

[1253 * (32 + [(48-32) * ((118.4-100)/100))]/256] = [1253 * 34/256] = 166
[1253 * (32 + [(48-32) * ((118.8-100)/100))]/256] = [1253 * 35/256] = 171
[1253 * (32 + [(48-32) * ((119.0-100)/100))]/256] = [1253 * 35/256] = 171

So, in tests for Atonement (and any WS), it's important to record the exact TP used, to the tenth of a percent.

Speaking of, if you care, w/ 3 dispels, the jump from 86>87 dmg is going from 103.9>104.0 TP exactly. I meant to go find the 87>88 jump for a more precise slope, but never got around to testing it.

[Max™]

Uhhh...

So, why does Mijin put people in your party within the monster's detection range on the hate list?

How much does it generate?

Am I a bad person for doing this to my friends when they afk randomly?

[Kirschy]

Uhhh...

So, why does Mijin put people in your party within the monster's detection range on the hate list?

How much does it generate?

Am I a bad person for doing this to my friends when they afk randomly?

Just needed to say I love the equation in your signature. Thats always been my favorite~

Ontopic- I'm kinda interested in the Mijin thing too~

[Enedin]

Just needed to say I love the equation in your signature. Thats always been my favorite~

Same here.

[Kaeko]

I would need someone with the mythic kama to test mijin's hate generation. I didn't know about the party hate effect though.

[Kirschy]

I would need someone with the mythic kama to test mijin's hate generation. I didn't know about the party hate effect though.

Mythic wouldn't help for the test since it just changes your HP when raised (IIRC). But is there anything that explains why when you Mijin a mob close to your party, it'll target one of them next? It's a great way to 'accidently' mpk, when all you meant to do is Mijin-HomePoint!

[Virtuous Saint]

Mythic wouldn't help for the test since it just changes your HP when raised (IIRC). But is there anything that explains why when you Mijin a mob close to your party, it'll target one of them next? It's a great way to 'accidently' mpk, when all you meant to do is Mijin-HomePoint!

Pt hate mob? lol

[Kirschy]

Pt hate mob? lol

Works on all mobs for some reason