Enmity testing - Still Going!

[Max™]

Flamingo in sky, Demons in Zvahl, Wivres in Grauberg.

Done it a few times to demonstrate it to friends, though the first flamingo was an accident.

Also: yeah, Euler's identity is great, just learned about it recently, and it's a definite fave.

[Deadgye]

I don't know why, but I've always favored expressing it as e^(iπ) = -1. Setting it equal to 0 always seems like excessive work to me.

[Amok]

Why WOULDN'T Mijin put detectable pt members on hate list? All other initial attacks behave that way.

[Spekkio]

Flamingo in sky, Demons in Zvahl, Wivres in Grauberg.

Done it a few times to demonstrate it to friends, though the first flamingo was an accident.

Also: yeah, Euler's identity is great, just learned about it recently, and it's a definite fave.

i had a math teacher in college who had posted in his office a bumper sticker that read "Mathematicians: we're -e^(i*pi)" though it was printed much prettier than i can on the forums. i thought it was great and have been trying to find one ever since.

edit: also, don't forget this! http://xkcd.com/verizon/verizon.jpg
google "verizon math" if you want to know the background behind that.

[Sho]

Also: yeah, Euler's identity is great, just learned about it recently, and it's a definite fave.

Just wiki'd this. Math really amazes me sometimes. You think you learn something within mathematics, then something comes along and blows your mind.

[Max™]

Why WOULDN'T Mijin put detectable pt members on hate list? All other initial attacks behave that way.

Uh, monsters which don't aggro don't hunt down party members who haven't done any action to generate hate.

Yet this will, even with TW mobs.


The reason to set it to equal zero is to include equals, addition, one, and zero in the relation, along with e, i, pi, and multiplication.

[Amok]

They do actually. However, saying so alone won't prove anything, so I'll try to up a video demonstrating it. I've done some tests regarding aggro/deaggro a long time ago and this was one of the things I thought was 'new' knowledge. It appears not many ppl read the post =[

EDIT:
Looking back, you (Max) did read it: http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/54056...s-testing.html

[Kaeko]

Ashi and I got around to Camouflage testing. It seems to be a straight -25 enmity while active.

[Rocl]

I enjoy Euler's proof of god as well.
(a+b^n)/n = x

THEREFORE GOD EXISTS

[Ashira]

Works on all mobs for some reason

Always fun when there were accidental Mijins on a Darter in the Aery. Between windows when everyone was afk.

[Vodou]

Ashi and I got around to Camouflage testing. It seems to be a straight -25 enmity while active.

So, it's part of the ability cap yes?

So did it seem to work like this for the -50 ability cap:

Example 1: if stealth shot is active and you have 3 merits in stealth shot, you'll get -25 -30 = -55, capped at -50.

Example 2: if you then add equipment -20 enmity, you have -50 (capped) -20 ---> -60 enmity. [{(1-.5)*(1-.2)}*100]-100

[Kaeko]

So, it's part of the ability cap yes?

So did it seem to work like this for the -50 ability cap:

Example 1: if stealth shot is active and you have 3 merits in stealth shot, you'll get -25 -30 = -55, capped at -50.

Example 2: if you then add equipment -20 enmity, you have -50 (capped) -20 ---> -60 enmity.

Did not check this, though my personal opinion is it is part of the ability cap. If it is an innate job trait (like muted soul) or is a status effect that goes away after single uses it should be ability.

[Kirschy]

Always fun when there were accidental Mijins on a Darter in the Aery. Between windows when everyone was afk.

I think I've been killed like 3 times from emo-mijins after a fafnir which dropped something useful

On-topic, Enmity-25 is fairly cool for camo. Does it activate on WS? (I remember being saying camo always goes down after a WS)

[Spider-Dan]

One quick question I had regarding a statement in Enmity Testing Part IX:

* The "CE/VE Enmity Reset" (most call this a full hate reset") is caused by only 1 situation - the mob must attempt to target you and find you unavailable (this can be for many reasons such as K.O. status, logging off, zoning, Goblin Footprint, etc.). This also means that the mob must first attempt to hit you, however, so simply dying or zoning does nothing but give you the "hate list" reset, not the "CE/VE value" reset.

Does this mean that THF's Hide does not actually "full reset" your hate unless you are at the top of the list when you use it?

[Kaeko]

One quick question I had regarding a statement in Enmity Testing Part IX:


Does this mean that THF's Hide does not actually "full reset" your hate unless you are at the top of the list when you use it?

EDIT: kinda. You don't have to be at the top when you use it. You just have to be at the top of the list at some point before you do something to it again. If you're at the top when you use it it'll reset. If you're duoing and you use it while your partner has hate, then he dies, it'll reset.

The most common way to use Hide is to deaggro yourself. In this situation, say you get a mob to 50% solo then realize you'll die, so you flee, kite, and hide. The CE/VE as well as hatelist is reset because the mob attempted to find you on its list and was unable to, hence reseting CE/VE.

Now say you are duoing. The mob is on your partner when you hide. Now say enmity-wise, your CE/VE never exceeds your partner's CE/VE when you hit the mob again. In this case your enmity was not reset. The mob was constantly fixated on your partner, never attempted to find you, and hence was unable to clear you.

The way I think about this is something like this:

(1) mob checks who has highest TE on its list (CE+VE)
(2) mob checks if said player is still on its "hate list"
(3) if said player is not found, remove CE/VE values
(4) repeat

Let's run this on case 2 with you as thf and a duo partner. You use hide while hate's on your partner then re-attack it.

(1) mob checks who's got the highest TE (your partner)
(2) you use hide - you are removed from the mob's hate list (not TE)
(3) mob continues to check for highest TE - always your partner
(4) you re-attack mob - placed back on hate list, TE is added

Hope this helps.

[Suiram]

Don't know why I never brought this up before, but was reminded of this just now looking at the recent posts. I'm pretty sure that if you're killed by a mob (say, through AoE) your hate is reset for that enemy without it needing to "look" for you while you are dead. Am I wrong on this?

(I don't think it would work for just being dead. I have memories from years of ago of packs of slept mobs in dynamis waking up and inexplicably (at the time) killing me or another blm who just raised up after dying. But it seems to reset it for the mob that actually kills you.)

[Kaeko]

Don't know why I never brought this up before, but was reminded of this just now looking at the recent posts. I'm pretty sure that if you're killed by a mob (say, through AoE) your hate is reset for that enemy without it needing to "look" for you while you are dead. Am I wrong on this?

(I don't think it would work for just being dead. I have memories from years of ago of packs of slept mobs in dynamis waking up and inexplicably (at the time) killing me or another blm who just raised up after dying. But it seems to reset it for the mob that actually kills you.)

Hm I've never actually tried this. Shouldn't be too hard to test by getting a partner at 1 HP and eating a low level AOE?

[Suiram]

Hm I've never actually tried this. Shouldn't be too hard to test by getting a partner at 1 HP and eating a low level AOE?

I was thinking something like that would work. Maybe three people total and a worm so that you could eat a -ga along with the main target and then compare your enmity with the 3rd person once you raise up.

Again, I could be wrong, but I'm just going by what it "feels" like in practice. It could be that the times it seemed to reset hate the mob actually did look for me while I was dead.

[Kirschy]

From my experience, I would say this isn't true. The examples that come to mind are Khim and Tiamat.

Playing BLM on Tiamat when you have some bad tanks usualli involves a lot of draw-ins. I can recall a few times when myself or someone else died from an AoE that was targetted on the tank or another member. It felt like hate wasn't reset in this case.

On Khim, there are times when I'll want to reset my hate on Ranger, and purposely try to kill myself while top on hate list. But sometimes the last TP is targetted on the tank, and I die from AoE. It feels like my hate isn't reset in this case.

It's just anectodal, so it would be nice to see some confirmation on this~

[Spider-Dan]

EDIT: kinda. You don't have to be at the top when you use it. You just have to be at the top of the list at some point before you do something to it again. If you're at the top when you use it it'll reset. If you're duoing and you use it while your partner has hate, then he dies, it'll reset.

Although it practically goes without saying, let me go ahead and ask anyway: was it specifically tested and verified that Hide does not reset TE by itself?

If so, it seems as though Hide (when it works) is really nothing more than an instant zone from an enmity perspective.