Relic Weaponskills & JoL

[Lordwafik]

Shiva casts sleepga but that doesn't make sleepga Ice

[Slott]

Just found another screenshot where he absorbed darkness damage after slowga, maybe his is earth based, and he changed forms after the previous screenshot i showed. Anyway, if you test it out in the various modes, he only absorbs in earth -.-

Ignore my slowga talk above about being water based, it was an early morning just out of bed brain fart ;D

[Alistaire]

http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/5491/mercyoz9.jpg
I guess he'd say differently

Didn't Ruke mention Kaiten is good when mob def is low?

That's probably cheating with Aura Steal.

[Anza]

really? you think so huh?

[Alistaire]

Meh, just woke up, missed that already being in the thread. Aside from that, I also thought this was gonna be about Jennifer Lopez.

[RKenshin]

@OP.

Basically as other people brought up, on higher defense/more difficult mobs Kaiten just doesn't do so well unless you have insanely high amounts of attack. I'm still not quite sure how to explain it and many people have tried, but no one seems to know for certain and it's not something I've really had the time or motivation to try to figure out considering the reason doesn't really interest me.

You can kind of see the drastic effects on Kaiten's damage with your attack vs mob's defense in an exp PT though. If you pop defender and have no attack buffs or food, your Kaiten average will fall drastically (like, by much more than half). Where as your 100% YGK average falls a lot but not as much. Then, with full buffs your Kaiten averages go back up to insane values by a factor of like 2-3. IIRC doing a quick test on Lesser Colibri I'd do about an 800 Kaiten with no buffs whatsoever versus a 1800 with full buffs, for an increase of over two times more. The difference in no buff Gekko/full buff Gekko was like 800 to 1200 I think, not sure.

But yeah, JoL you'd be hard pressed to average a decent WS number without really good food+songs considering he has insanely high defense. I think I would peak at like 900 without DA with curry/berserk/minuets. However I'd still argue that in most situations, spamming a 100% Kaiten is > any alternative unless you're going for Paralyzing/Silencing a mob or a SC.

I probly shouldn't even say this with the amount of data that was collected, but in some tests Ruke and I ran some time ago (same test diffrent servers) we found that Gekko seems to ignore defence slightly, I recall correctly we didn't use Kaiten at all during these tests, I don't belive Ruke had Amano yet. anyway using a *warning* very small sample size (about 30 of each ws) I invented this theoretical chart...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v98/b ... -1copy.jpg
I don't rember where my data is, it might even be on my old computer, Ruke might have his still though

I still have it, and actually I did have relic for those tests. I didn't bother with doing a detailed comparison with Kaiten involved since the discussion was concerning YGK, but I did use Kaiten a few times and there are definitely conclusive results towards Kaiten's damage being hurt badly by low levels of attack. IIRC, my Gekko average with Defender was ~700 in those tests on T Steelshells, and my Kaiten average under the same situation was ~300 (lower than all of YGK by a LOT). Then with Berserk Kaiten surpassed Gekko's average easily.