FFXI Plot-holes and unclear issues

[Cantih]

Shit, I've been caught out, WotG Sandy I'm still on Haze of Glory.
Been trying to solo it on THF after every level boost, to see if the mobs have a cheating accuracy rate, or just a very high one. 90 was unsuccessful, and I only just finished my new gear sets before the servers went down.

[Charismatic]

Are you purposefully failing so that you can keep testing or something? I went 1/1 on that with DRG solo back when the cap was 75.

[Cantih]

Nope, I genuinely haven't been able to do it.
DRG != THF. You can output more damage, have better defense, and have way better self healing than bloody bolts or /dnc can manage.

[Charismatic]

Erm... none of that really mattered, to be honest. You just MGS your way to the end and then kill the turret (which most/all? jobs can do)
You can destroy one or two of the flasks on your way to the turret and that'll make the orcs around it leave it alone if you can't do it without aggroing them

[Fereydoon]

Spoiler: show

iirc, the people who built Alzaldaal were the Olduum. And yes, it was very long ago, but if the first Alexander/Odin brawl happened in time with Gordeus going supernova, and that matches the Taru calender it means that is was still nowhere near as long ago as the Zilart meltdown brouhaha.

And that's part of why I'm not on board with Odin being based in the northlands. The Zilart's Fei'Yin and the Kuluu's Pso'Xja are up there, they were clearly involved in the area, but Odin has no presence in their history.

I'll need to re-watch the CoP stuff up there though when the game is back on. I was planning to anyway, along with THF AF CS's. I'm doing the San d'Oria nation missions and need to get the whole Vauderame/Louverance/Atarefaunat thing sorted out.

Spoiler: show

iirc, none of the celestials show up in anything remotely Zilart, just the terrestrials, right? It could be they honestly didn't know of their existence, or the proto crystals weren't there then. The closest we see anything remotely Zilart to a cloister is the headstone in Terrigan, right? Wait, I forgot that ice is in the basement of Fei'yen. Hmmm. The honestly could have done nothing to them, maybe the avatars weren't in the somewhat semi-awake state they are now. The CS I was talking about definitely shows a very dark proto crystal in Bearclaw, though. Perhaps the proto crystals weren't around before Gordeus blew up? The celestials have been asleep since before the Zilart though, feels like I'm missing a key CS or SE just hasn't explained something..

Ugly range is also a bit more north than the glacier is, they could have just not gone that high, it also wasn't an icy wasteland until the meltdown, it could have knocked his proto crystal out of place, waking him up in the process, he goes after Alexander, Gordeus blows up, he's weakened, goes back to the Crystal to recover? Feels fine around the time Raogrimm goes crazy, gives him power in exchange for release?

[Azat]

Spoiler: show

iirc, none of the celestials show up in anything remotely Zilart, just the terrestrials, right? It could be they honestly didn't know of their existence, or the proto crystals weren't there then. The closest we see anything remotely Zilart to a cloister is the headstone in Terrigan, right? Wait, I forgot that ice is in the basement of Fei'yen. Hmmm. The honestly could have done nothing to them, maybe the avatars weren't in the somewhat semi-awake state they are now. The CS I was talking about definitely shows a very dark proto crystal in Bearclaw, though. Perhaps the proto crystals weren't around before Gordeus blew up? The celestials have been asleep since before the Zilart though, feels like I'm missing a key CS or SE just hasn't explained something..

Ugly range is also a bit more north than the glacier is, they could have just not gone that high, it also wasn't an icy wasteland until the meltdown, it could have knocked his proto crystal out of place, waking him up in the process, he goes after Alexander, Gordeus blows up, he's weakened, goes back to the Crystal to recover? Feels fine around the time Raogrimm goes crazy, gives him power in exchange for release?

Spoiler: show

The whole "Dark Protocrystal" was pretty confusing. As SE themselves didnt seem to know what to do with it, considering its use has been vague in general and with several retcons attached to it. Been awhile but I remember it like this:

During cop most people believed it was a dark protocrystal that had exsisted, with all the references of it pointing to the dark divinity. however it was hinted at being remains of a huge chunk of crystallized emptiness magicite. the Mithra SinHunter was seeking out the dark divinity due to the whole bow of light and the evils it brought about thing.
during one of the side path questlines in cop, it established the Sinhunter believed it was a crystal and assumed it to be a protocrystal that the power of the bow came from, and had traveled to bearclaw pinnacle pinpointing that as the location of this power, arriving to only find broken shards. This was the same location Prishe merged her piece of empty magicite with the pieces there.

As far as Raogrimm it was originally hinted that his direct contact with the 4th mother crystal caused the physical changes in him, as the zilart prince with the crystal eye suffered a somewhat similar fate by touching the mother crystal.

cop hinted that his creation/power was instead from a dark divinity due to contact with the emptyness magicite, given the whole protocrystal/magicite/dark divinity confusion. Atho not really explained your suppose to make connections that dark divinity refers to the emptiness. Toau and wotg retcon it to being that of odin himself tho.

Toau established that whether or not they have proto crystals, both odin and alex can work freely without them. Might possibly be due to them being fully awake or due to their opposing traits, they arn't in the same class as the elemental celestials.

Memory is a little hazy but the original confrontation between odin and alex was 1000 years before current time, Epharamadian people followed odin, which one of their people at that time made a pact with odin to become his knight. Odin likes to lend his power to those with great emotion that fuels them, particular rage and hate.
The Emperor of Al'zahbi alligned himself to alexander. Alex power always seemed to be connected through using vessels, as arcane is affliated with him, Alzadaal was created as the giant construct to harness alex power. The two clashed causing a supernova of power in their wake, aftermath left a new star in the sky created labeled by windurst as the Gordeus.

Wotg established Odin is drawn to and will share his power with people who have strong souls created from intense emotion built from suffering.
"The cry of a mortal's soul is that which calls forth the Dark Divinity. For it is the profoundest depths of emotions--those tempered in the forge of suffering--that he looks upon with favor. Grief. Rage. Rancor. And finally Love."
Raogrimm was perfect for this, and odin came to him offering his favor to him.

If there really is a real dark protocrystal its not known at this time. Only the one in northlands was really just a chunk of Emptiness Magicite that was brought there. Altho my memory could be failing me about some of it.

[Fereydoon]

Spoiler: show

The whole "Dark Protocrystal" was pretty confusing. As SE themselves didnt seem to know what to do with it, considering its use has been vague in general and with several retcons attached to it. Been awhile but I remember it like this:

During cop most people believed it was a dark protocrystal that had exsisted, with all the references of it pointing to the dark divinity. however it was hinted at being remains of a huge chunk of crystallized emptiness magicite. the Mithra SinHunter was seeking out the dark divinity due to the whole bow of light and the evils it brought about thing.
during one of the side path questlines in cop, it established the Sinhunter believed it was a crystal and assumed it to be a protocrystal that the power of the bow came from, and had traveled to bearclaw pinnacle pinpointing that as the location of this power, arriving to only find broken shards. This was the same location Prishe merged her piece of empty magicite with the pieces there.

As far as Raogrimm it was originally hinted that his direct contact with the 4th mother crystal caused the physical changes in him, as the zilart prince with the crystal eye suffered a somewhat similar fate by touching the mother crystal.

cop hinted that his creation/power was instead from a dark divinity due to contact with the emptyness magicite, given the whole protocrystal/magicite/dark divinity confusion. Atho not really explained your suppose to make connections that dark divinity refers to the emptiness. Toau and wotg retcon it to being that of odin himself tho.

Toau established that whether or not they have proto crystals, both odin and alex can work freely without them. Might possibly be due to them being fully awake or due to their opposing traits, they arn't in the same class as the elemental celestials.

Memory is a little hazy but the original confrontation between odin and alex was 1000 years before current time, Epharamadian people followed odin, which one of their people at that time made a pact with odin to become his knight. Odin likes to lend his power to those with great emotion that fuels them, particular rage and hate.
The Emperor of Al'zahbi alligned himself to alexander. Alex power always seemed to be connected through using vessels, as arcane is affliated with him, Alzadaal was created as the giant construct to harness alex power. The two clashed causing a supernova of power in their wake, aftermath left a new star in the sky created labeled by windurst as the Gordeus.

Wotg established Odin is drawn to and will share his power with people who have strong souls created from intense emotion built from suffering.
"The cry of a mortal's soul is that which calls forth the Dark Divinity. For it is the profoundest depths of emotions--those tempered in the forge of suffering--that he looks upon with favor. Grief. Rage. Rancor. And finally Love."
Raogrimm was perfect for this, and odin came to him offering his favor to him.

If there really is a real dark protocrystal its not known at this time. Only the one in northlands was really just a chunk of Emptiness Magicite that was brought there. Altho my memory could be failing me about some of it.

Spoiler: show

That makes sense, the only thing I'm left wondering, when we see the "Dark Protocrystal" that's actually magicite, there are many Kindred around it, we've been told Odin gave the Kindred army to Raogrimm when he became a knight, yes? Were they just randomly guarding this magicite? Where did it even come from?

Also kind of curious as to what Alexander's original body was, as he has to inhabit vessels. I still wanna know what relationship the Zilart had with the Celestials, as well. Were they just kinda there? It seems like a lot of power they weren't using. Was Luzaf the prince from that time period? I know he's been a Knight for a while, just don't remember how long. Why did the Magicite chunk have the same shape as a protocrystal, though? Unless the broken pieces were then used to store emptiness? If this rock can harbor Odin I'm sure it can store emptiness. I kind of want to go rewatch those cs's now.. Even if it were a protocrystal though, why would Odin return to it?

I know Odin and Alexander are both awake, don't know why. Only reason they haven't destroyed everything is because they have a greater desire to fight each other, only problem is Alexander is bodyless and Odin is sealed at the testing grounds, iirc? He can only send out images of himself, like the Dark Rider, to see outside? Hence his need for knights and such?

Seems kinda like SE is going somewhere with this, or everything AU and after is an asspull, I can see both happening.

[Odin'sLaw]

Spoiler: show

The whole "Dark Protocrystal" was pretty confusing. As SE themselves didnt seem to know what to do with it, considering its use has been vague in general and with several retcons attached to it. Been awhile but I remember it like this:

During cop most people believed it was a dark protocrystal that had exsisted, with all the references of it pointing to the dark divinity. however it was hinted at being remains of a huge chunk of crystallized emptiness magicite. the Mithra SinHunter was seeking out the dark divinity due to the whole bow of light and the evils it brought about thing.
during one of the side path questlines in cop, it established the Sinhunter believed it was a crystal and assumed it to be a protocrystal that the power of the bow came from, and had traveled to bearclaw pinnacle pinpointing that as the location of this power, arriving to only find broken shards. This was the same location Prishe merged her piece of empty magicite with the pieces there.

As far as Raogrimm it was originally hinted that his direct contact with the 4th mother crystal caused the physical changes in him, as the zilart prince with the crystal eye suffered a somewhat similar fate by touching the mother crystal.

cop hinted that his creation/power was instead from a dark divinity due to contact with the emptyness magicite, given the whole protocrystal/magicite/dark divinity confusion. Atho not really explained your suppose to make connections that dark divinity refers to the emptiness. Toau and wotg retcon it to being that of odin himself tho.

Toau established that whether or not they have proto crystals, both odin and alex can work freely without them. Might possibly be due to them being fully awake or due to their opposing traits, they arn't in the same class as the elemental celestials.

Memory is a little hazy but the original confrontation between odin and alex was 1000 years before current time, Epharamadian people followed odin, which one of their people at that time made a pact with odin to become his knight. Odin likes to lend his power to those with great emotion that fuels them, particular rage and hate.
The Emperor of Al'zahbi alligned himself to alexander. Alex power always seemed to be connected through using vessels, as arcane is affliated with him, Alzadaal was created as the giant construct to harness alex power. The two clashed causing a supernova of power in their wake, aftermath left a new star in the sky created labeled by windurst as the Gordeus.

Wotg established Odin is drawn to and will share his power with people who have strong souls created from intense emotion built from suffering.
"The cry of a mortal's soul is that which calls forth the Dark Divinity. For it is the profoundest depths of emotions--those tempered in the forge of suffering--that he looks upon with favor. Grief. Rage. Rancor. And finally Love."
Raogrimm was perfect for this, and odin came to him offering his favor to him.

If there really is a real dark protocrystal its not known at this time. Only the one in northlands was really just a chunk of Emptiness Magicite that was brought there. Altho my memory could be failing me about some of it.

didn't the shadow lord have his Demon minions have them drag the "dark prototype crystal" (we know it was just a chuck of Emptiness) so he could draw out more power? (at that point presuming he though it was Odin's crystal and hoped to steal some more pure power from him) but on that note trying to open the emptiness like it was a proto-crystal just wake up the emptiness inside to make promy's?

[Azat]

Spoiler: show

That makes sense, the only thing I'm left wondering, when we see the "Dark Protocrystal" that's actually magicite, there are many Kindred around it, we've been told Odin gave the Kindred army to Raogrimm when he became a knight, yes? Were they just randomly guarding this magicite? Where did it even come from?

Also kind of curious as to what Alexander's original body was, as he has to inhabit vessels. I still wanna know what relationship the Zilart had with the Celestials, as well. Were they just kinda there? It seems like a lot of power they weren't using. Was Luzaf the prince from that time period? I know he's been a Knight for a while, just don't remember how long. Why did the Magicite chunk have the same shape as a protocrystal, though? Unless the broken pieces were then used to store emptiness? If this rock can harbor Odin I'm sure it can store emptiness. I kind of want to go rewatch those cs's now.. Even if it were a protocrystal though, why would Odin return to it?

I know Odin and Alexander are both awake, don't know why. Only reason they haven't destroyed everything is because they have a greater desire to fight each other, only problem is Alexander is bodyless and Odin is sealed at the testing grounds, iirc? He can only send out images of himself, like the Dark Rider, to see outside? Hence his need for knights and such?

Seems kinda like SE is going somewhere with this, or everything AU and after is an asspull, I can see both happening.

didn't the shadow lord have his Demon minions have them drag the "dark prototype crystal" (we know it was just a chuck of Emptiness) so he could draw out more power? (at that point presuming he though it was Odin's crystal and hoped to steal some more pure power from him) but on that note trying to open the emptiness like it was a proto-crystal just wake up the emptiness inside to make promy's?

Spoiler: show

I am remembering that I've seen that cs with the Kindred now, but can't recall the details on it. Given what the wotg cs show, just assumed Odin is able to manifest his avatars anywhere they are called to. Odin exists within the astral plane rather then a crystal, as the same as Alexander.

The very least the Zilart were already aware of the Celestials, given the Hall of the Gods has statues dedicated to them. Beyond that not sure how they interacted with them. Olduum civilization had ties to Ramuh exploiting lightning into their technology but that was the only instance of a specific celestial being tied to technology advancement, wish they had expanded more on that.

Luzaf agreement with Odin was his ability to survive in the world until he had his revenge against the royal family of Al'zahbi, it would be only after that he would give up his soul to take up the mantle of Knight. Never do know who was the knight during the first clash, only that it fought against the Alexander construct.

If I recall Masato Kato,the original scenario writer, had the overall storyline written out from shadowlord to zilart and the framework for cop already thought up before he left. Toau and beyond were complete new storylines that had to still feel like they belonged to the overall story. Its because of that I feel we get the confusions and oh yeah also vague = compelling mystery in this game.

[ronin sparthos]

Spoiler: show

TOAU seems to heavily imply that Odin has his own realm (Valhalla) within the astral plane where his army of demons/imps/fomor reside. What's unknown is if this was just thrown into the plot to legitimize Einherjar of if there is more to it.

[Yubar]

Spoiler: show

TOAU seems to heavily imply that Odin has his own realm (Valhalla) within the astral plane where his army of demons/imps/fomor reside. What's unknown is if this was just thrown into the plot to legitimize Einherjar of if there is more to it.

Spoiler: show

Does this mean that Alexander has own realm as well, "heaven" that would be full of "angels" and who ever makes a pact with Alexander has control over angels in the same way that someone who makes a pact with Odin has control over demons, etc.?

[Souj]

no.

[Jeryhn]

Regarding Odin/Alexander:

Spoiler: show

They currently inhabit what is known as the "astral plane". It seems that in order to be active in Vana'diel, both of these avatars require specific mediums - for Odin, an organic vessel; for Alexander, an automaton-type vessel. This is possibly because the normal mediums that avatars pass through when summoned to fulfill their pacts are broken or are otherwise incapacitated, those mediums being the protocrystals. It is assumed although both of these avatars normally inhabit the astral plane that their conflict cannot come to resolution there. This is possibly because of the pacts each avatar forged with their followers.

Odin's protocrystal is shattered. Whether or not that's due to Raogrimm's rage is not explicitly made clear, but we do known Raogrimm and Odin make contact, and through the power Odin bestows upon the other, the Shadow Lord is born. My guess is that Odin's crystal was shattered long, long before the events of the multinational expedition into the Northlands.

My guess is the five Astral Candescences are the actual shards of Alexander's protocrystal, which is why they expel astral wind. The power they grant by simply being near them fuels the conflict that compasses the siege of Al Zahbi by the beastmen forces. This power is quite similar to what Lilith talks about when Odin makes his appearance in the Throne Room of Castle Zvahl in WotG.

The reason the two avatars are in conflict to begin with? Most likely it has to do with Emperor Alzadaal (of the Olduum) confronting the Epharamadians. Both nations would have invoked the pacts of their patron deities, leading to the conflict of "Age of Judgment". Likely the conflict ended without proper resolution, leaving the pacts unfulfilled until present day time.

I am fairly sure the Gordeus supernova has very little to do with the actual state of Alexander. Moreover, it doesn't explain why there is a puzzle in the Walahra Temple called the Gordeus that apparently still functions that no one can solve - the only record of this actually happening being by Walahra himself, iirc.

Regarding Lekho Habhoka:

Spoiler: show

He's definitely not a time traveler, but was given a reprieve from death by Altana in the form of combining with the tenth fallen Cait Sith (yes, there were ten). He was executed in the Mithran Homeland for traitorous dealings involving the Bow of Light. His mission in coming to Windurst was to lead the Mithra to their ruin by having them participate in the Crystal War. While not a time-traveler, he had definite knowledge of the future in the form of the false Robel Akbel, otherwise known as the Spitewarden Karaha-Baruha, who was a time traveler and came to the time of the Crystal War with Lilith. As a previous poster said, he came with his own agenda - to save the love he lost, the Star Sibyl, by completing the summoning.

At the end of the Windurst segment in WotG, Lehko's plans are revealed by the Shikaree hunter that has been following him and attempting to track down the Bow of Light. After the battle with the combined form of Fenrir and the two Karaha-Baruhas, Lehko tells you to leave Castle Oztroja without him,and he suddenly collapses from his wounds and speaks with Cait Sith Deich (meaning 10). Cait Sith goes to rejoin the other Caits and Lekho passes.

Back at Windurst, you find Lekho again in Sarutabaruta. Seems he's been given another reprieve from death by Altana thanks to his changed ways in teaming up with the Mithran mercenaries. It is strongly indicated that he is Nanaa Mihgo's father.

As far as the Bow of Light goes, it is assumed that it is connected to the Dark Divinity (Odin) because of its raw destructive power and because the Shikarees are aware of a plan to wake "sleeping gods". In fact, it is a piece of magicite, a form of crystallized Emptiness - Emptiness being death given substance, that fuels the power of the Bow.

Regarding Atomos and WotG:

Spoiler: show

Atomos is the comet you see in WotG, and his avatars are the Cavernous Maws that lead to various times. The differing appearance of the Maws is indicative of when that particular gateway was formed - in time, the Maws "freeze" over when their use has been fulfilled, becoming stone.

Atomos is invoked by the Cait Siths upon Altana's orders in order to ease the suffering endured by her children during the time of the Crystal War. In the one "true" timeline, the Crystal War never ended. Lilith comes from this timeline. We can probably presume that Altana decided to interfere because of Promathia's connection with the children of Altana - if they're all wiped out, and there's no containment for Promathia's Emptiness, leading to the Twilight God's eventual true death... though this is not explicitly stated.

However, because Atomos is invoked, Lilith and her Spitewardens are able to hijack the Maws as well. Most of the central WotG missions has to do with you and Lilisette dealing with the problems of Lilith using Atomos for her future's own gain.

Regarding the form Lilith takes at the end of WotG, remember that Lilith has risen to such power in her own timeline as to be likened to a goddess as well. At the end of WotG, Lilith takes the power that infuses Lilisette with the essence of a Champion of the Dawn and subsequently fuses with Lilisette, becoming essentially the presence of the Goddess Altana on the plane of Vana'diel.

It is at this point in which the prevailing future is determined. When you defeat Lilith Ascendant, Lilith dies and Lilisette goes to the Timeline of Strife in order to assume Lilith's mantle as custodian of Vana'diel at Lilith's request. From there, Lilisette is able to sever the link of Atomos' Maws found there - leading to the eventual freezeing of the Maws over time - their roles fulfilled.

Ragelise and Portia eventually get married, their memories erased. Through your influence by mentioning Lilisette and showing Portia the Mooshade Earring that Lilisette gives you, Ragelise and Portia decide to name their first child Lilisette. In essence, the conflict between the two future timelines becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I think that covers most of the questions.
If there are more, especially about WotG, I'll be happy to answer (all three lines + main missions for me complete).

[Spira]

man i had no idea there was such an active story / plot-hole thread going on.

to pitch in..

This had always been iffy due to the way they'd been very vague about it, but the Dark Divinity is Odin and Odin is technically responsible for a majority of the events that happen in FFXI's story. Especially since the Shadow Lord, Luzaf and Lilith all swore themselves to him at some point. Odin is free to roam because his proto-crystal has been destroyed. Memory fails me, so I'm not sure if the dark crystal in bearclaw pinnacle was his protocrystal (but I'm pretty sure it was). The beastmen used Emeline's Lay of the Immortals to awaken him so he is able to roam free. But he has his own agenda, unlike the other celestial avatars.

The other celestial avatars are contained within proto-crystals, and it is Carbuncle's wish for them to manifest in Vana'diel (through drawing bits of their power at a time) because she believes they will be the solution/distraction necessary to stop the terrestrials (especially bahamut) from carrying out their duties when Promathia awakens. This is shown in Waking the Beast when the celestials do actually manifest in Vana'diel and attack Carbuncle because she is a false god, which is pretty much according to plan, except that at the time she just wanted to help Fenrir out.

The Caits are servants of Altana, born from her tears. They're pretty much like terrestrial avatars in a sense, I suppose. What amuses me is that Ceithir, supposedly born from Altana's purity is still capable of betrayal. They're the ones who summon Atomos, which is also like a terrestrial avatar, but i suppose he is perpetually bound by his duty to devour time.

Atomos exists beyond time-space, and so does the Walk of Echoes. You can kind infer this from the fact that his Maws are like the standard interspace/time gateway tool, except where traveling to Walk Of Echoes itself, its usually a Veridical Conflux then.

As for time travelers, its just you, Lilisette, Lilith and the Spitewardens, and Zogbog, iirc. Excenmille too, if you count people traveling into the future.

Lilith Ascendant is essentially an amalgamation of Lilith with her Odin powers, and Lilisette with her Champion of the Dawn (Altana) powers. She looks identical to Altana. I think SE just wanted it to be that you symbolically fight Altana as the last boss in Wings of the Goddess (lit. Crusaders of Altana in Japanese), just as you fight Promathia as the last boss in CoP. But seeing as she's good, you're probably never gonna actually fight her anyway.

based on the outcome of the WotG story, and given the dev teams reputation for happy endings, I expect that we'll see a follow up quest to the story soon, so that we'll get to meet Lilithsette again. Come to think of it, it'd even make a good premise for future add-ons - more rehashed areas with strife versions of just about everyone else lol. but thats another discussion for another day..

[Azat]

man i had no idea there was such an active story / plot-hole thread going on.

to pitch in..

This had always been iffy due to the way they'd been very vague about it, but the Dark Divinity is Odin and Odin is technically responsible for a majority of the events that happen in FFXI's story. Especially since the Shadow Lord, Luzaf and Lilith all swore themselves to him at some point. Odin is free to roam because his proto-crystal has been destroyed. Memory fails me, so I'm not sure if the dark crystal in bearclaw pinnacle was his protocrystal (but I'm pretty sure it was). The beastmen used Emeline's Lay of the Immortals to awaken him so he is able to roam free. But he has his own agenda, unlike the other celestial avatars.

The other celestial avatars are contained within proto-crystals, and it is Carbuncle's wish for them to manifest in Vana'diel (through drawing bits of their power at a time) because she believes they will be the solution/distraction necessary to stop the terrestrials (especially bahamut) from carrying out their duties when Promathia awakens. This is shown in Waking the Beast when the celestials do actually manifest in Vana'diel and attack Carbuncle because she is a false god, which is pretty much according to plan, except that at the time she just wanted to help Fenrir out.

The Caits are servants of Altana, born from her tears. They're pretty much like terrestrial avatars in a sense, I suppose. What amuses me is that Ceithir, supposedly born from Altana's purity is still capable of betrayal. They're the ones who summon Atomos, which is also like a terrestrial avatar, but i suppose he is perpetually bound by his duty to devour time.

Atomos exists beyond time-space, and so does the Walk of Echoes. You can kind infer this from the fact that his Maws are like the standard interspace/time gateway tool, except where traveling to Walk Of Echoes itself, its usually a Veridical Conflux then.

As for time travelers, its just you, Lilisette, Lilith and the Spitewardens, and Zogbog, iirc. Excenmille too, if you count people traveling into the future.

Lilith Ascendant is essentially an amalgamation of Lilith with her Odin powers, and Lilisette with her Champion of the Dawn (Altana) powers. She looks identical to Altana. I think SE just wanted it to be that you symbolically fight Altana as the last boss in Wings of the Goddess (lit. Crusaders of Altana in Japanese), just as you fight Promathia as the last boss in CoP. But seeing as she's good, you're probably never gonna actually fight her anyway.

based on the outcome of the WotG story, and given the dev teams reputation for happy endings, I expect that we'll see a follow up quest to the story soon, so that we'll get to meet Lilithsette again. Come to think of it, it'd even make a good premise for future add-ons - more rehashed areas with strife versions of just about everyone else lol. but thats another discussion for another day..

It does begin to feel like they are over using Odin. Reminds me of the Simpsons episode where Lucy Lawless is explaining the inconsistencies of Xena are due to a warlock.

SE: If you ever notice something that doesn't match in cutscenes, it's due to Odin doing it.

Player: What about in that one cutscene where..

SE: Odin did it.

Player: Ok, but what about...

SE: Odin!

Rehashing seems to be the favorite thing to do, especially cause of ps2 limitations, but I think the JP would riot if they don't get the far east expansion sometime soon. I agree somewhat tho, I would really like to see more information about the emptiness and its effects on Tenzens country.

Sucks so much they keep adding more information about the other continents but you know in reality its nothing but lore buffing and will most likely never visit them.

[Ferr]

If I recall Masato Kato,the original scenario writer, had the overall storyline written out from shadowlord to zilart and the framework for cop already thought up before he left

is that true¿? I thought Kato did only vanilla FFXI and Zilart, but CoP really seems to be made at the same time. Also I dont know who is credited for CoP storyline.

[Spira]

SE: If you ever notice something that doesn't match in cutscenes, it's due to Odin doing it.

Player: What about in that one cutscene where..

SE: Odin did it.

Player: Ok, but what about...

SE: Odin!

made me lol. XD

the only real good thing about the Odin thing is that it kinda creates a direct link between ToA and the rest of the FFXI universe's story...

i'm actually looking forward to this next version update because I was hoping they'd use it to foreshadow whatever they've planned for 2011, if they don't outright announce it. having a content timeline like last year was quite a useful thing as it gave u something to look forward to. hope they do something like that soon, even with the delays due to the disaster

[calinz]

I vaguely remember a mentioning of West Aht Urhgan being at war with the east side... why is this conflict never mentioned in more detail? I know that ToAU's focus is Alex vs Odin, but I still want to know what's up with the rest of the continent.

[Tsuko_Asura]

The other celestial avatars are contained within proto-crystals, and it is Carbuncle's wish for them to manifest in Vana'diel (through drawing bits of their power at a time) because she believes they will be the solution/distraction necessary to stop the terrestrials (especially bahamut) from carrying out their duties when Promathia awakens. This is shown in Waking the Beast when the celestials do actually manifest in Vana'diel and attack Carbuncle because she is a false god, which is pretty much according to plan, except that at the time she just wanted to help Fenrir out.

Fairly certain this is incorrect. Doesn't Carbuncle want you to gather and summon all of the celestial avatars so they can experience Vana'diel, and hopefully not attempt to revert it to paradise when they're finally awakened completely? I could be wrong, but I was under the impression that the situation was akin to taking someone to Disney so they don't blow up Florida.

[ronin sparthos]

I vaguely remember a mentioning of West Aht Urhgan being at war with the east side... why is this conflict never mentioned in more detail? I know that ToAU's focus is Alex vs Odin, but I still want to know what's up with the rest of the continent.

All we got from TOAU is that Aht is in a two-pronged fight with the beastmen and that a Yagudo Shogunate (same shogunate that supplied warriors to the Yagudo Theocracy during the Crystal Era) is warring with them in the east. The same shogunate that sent Gessho to investigate the superweapon Aht had been working on. What's unclear is if the far-east Yagudo and Tenzen's lands are the same.

Granted Razfahd wanted to annihilate all enemies using the Alexander, it'd be no surprise if that war in the East ended since Nashmiera became empress of Aht.

The Mamool Ja should technically no longer fear Aht since the aggression has stopped, the Lamia have a grudge against their creators so they should still be hostile and the Trolls were hired by Martial Maestro Megomak IIRC to capture the Astral Candy for his own desires? It's been a while.