FFXI Plot-holes and unclear issues

[Rocl]

I always thought the opening CS for CoP was concurrent with the CS after the Eld'narche fight. I (vaguely) remember a similar static-y lightning effect in the CS that is similar to the Crystal Line fucking shit up and waking up Bahamut.

CoP is like the direct sequel to Zilart, in fact I thought they even said it was supposed to be one deal, but they couldn't fit it in due to time restraints? I could have imagined that.

As for the Far East bit, I've always been really fucking confused too. Did the Zilart/Kuluu exist outside of the Middle Lands? The Olduum ruins are supposedly the same age/older than cermet structures and those rocks in Buburimu are supposed to be some sort of construct too, right? Or am I just too literally interpreting the Ramuh myth.

Also why is Ramuh such a big deal? Fucking Olduum loved the guy. What is up with Olduum? Why are 7/8 of the celestial protocrystals in the Middle Lands? All five mothercrystals? It just seems really weird that there's supposed to be more world when everything is so centrally located. (Of course maybe that's it, evidence of a divine creator, everything important centralized etc.)

Also, didn't every race except maybe the Galka immigrate to the Middle Lands? I know the Elvaan came from Aldauine (sp?), aka the North and the Mithra came from the Southern Islands. I thought the Humes came from the East, and I can't remember where the tarutaru came from, but I thought they immigrated too. (According to Elmer's timelines, the tarutaru immigrated approximately 200 C.E., and there have been Humes on Quon since 3000 B.C.E. so whoops, they didn't immigrate.)

So yeah, where the fuck did the tarutaru come from? And the quote is very vague, they just immigrate to Mindartia, doesn't say where from. It could be Quon for all we know.

Also what the fuck was Phoenix doing in the Far East. I know Tenzen's family petitioned her or some shit to help in the war, but if I remember rightly, she was always kind of there. Phoenix is the Terrestial Avatar of Al'Taieu and therefore Galka, why wasn't she in Zepwell!? (And what the fuck at Parradamo Tor being connected to her.)

What are the other Terrestial:Crag:Race relations?

Phoenix:Al'Taieu:Galka
Diabolos:Vahzl:Hume

then I don't fucking know.

Carbuncle:Holla:Tarutaru?? (Carbuncle seems cowardly..)
Fenrir:Mea:Mithra (???)
Bahamut:Dem:Elvaan (Bahamut is an arrogant bastard...)

Well, I guess if I wasn't Hume I'd know which Lights you recover from the CoP Mission of scaling the EBON PANELS that'd solve the Crag:Race relation I guess.

[Kaisha]

If CoP follows ZM, I'm taking it that the Jeuno embassy hides the fact that Kam'lanaut/Eald'narche are dead? Esha'ntarl references Kam couple times during CoP's plot regarding orders and other shit, but that would have to be a lie for it to fit.

Hell, with those two out of the picture, who exactly is supposed to run Jeuno anyways. Those hooded mammet guys?

[Rocl]

If CoP follows ZM, I'm taking it that the Jeuno embassy hides the fact that Kam'lanaut/Eald'narche are dead? Esha'ntarl references Kam couple times during CoP's plot regarding orders and other shit, but that would have to be a lie for it to fit.

Hell, with those two out of the picture, who exactly is supposed to run Jeuno anyways. Those hooded mammet guys?

How do Kam'lanaut and Eald'narche reappear every time I switch nations!? I could have sworn Esha'ntarl directly references you killing the Princes during a cutscene, but it might have been for Apocaplyse Nigh and the Wyrmking Descends BCNM. Based on those quests though, I'd definitely say Esha'ntarl and the Arthawn (sp?) Society run Jeuno, most assuredly the former, I think the latter was always involved in some way. The hooded men are actual Zilart/Kuluu, no? Or are they just Mammets? That always confused me. I thought the Princes were the last Zilart.. but then you have Esha'ntarl, Nag'molada, etc. so others had to have survived.

(I also found it wildly amusing that the CoP cutscenes featuring the princes, I think there was only one? really, but anyway they go through great strains to not show Kam'lanaut or Eald'narche's face and they appear as ??? in dialogue.)

[Souj]

I don't remember anything saying the terrestrial avatars were linked to crags. I could be wrong though, I often am.
As for are Kam'lanaut and Eald'narche being alive during CoP, I always just assumed they were dead, but that Esha'ntarl and the society were keeping their death quiet and just running things instead. How would the public react when they are told; "oh hey, the Archduke was really a member of an ancient race. Oh, and also he just tried to kill every single one of you by merging the mother crystals together. What are Mother Crystals? Those are the things that keep this planet alive and have enormous power and we were keeping it a secret from everyone because we thought people would use it as a weapon to fuck shit up even more. But don't worry. The Archduke and his brother were both killed by some adventurer up in a flying island. So we don't have to worry about the end of the world. At least not for the next 5 minutes cause now theres some big ass fucking dragon that wants to kill you all now."

[ronin sparthos]

The Arthawyn society gives me that Illuminati-vibe where the ultimate effect of revealing their leaders have been assassinated would eventually reveal the true story behind the 5races, Tu'lia, Zilart and Kuluu which would be detrimental to the lives of normal Vana'dielians and to their organization as the ruling body of Jeuno. It wouldn't be long before unrest took hold when the commoners find out that an ancient race of superpeople have been pulling the strings so they just keep things quiet for the sake of everyone.

But somehow Kam'lanaut seemed normal to them.... yeah. He hasn't aged a single day since the Crystal War and somehow he hasn't tripped any mental alarms.

The rank and file members of the society are Zilart survivors iirc as they have names that go with theme given to Zilart/Kuluu and there is a cutscene in CoP where they converse with Esha'ntarl. The mammets just seem to be androids created by the survivors for the purpose of combating the Wyrmking (and you).

[Spira]

the events from RotZ most definitely trigger CoP.
it's Eald'narches return to paradise thingy + Lion's jumping that reverses the crystal line, allowing Sehl'teus to escape etc etc.

Both Kam'lanaut and Eald'narche are very much dead from CoP onwards.. I'm assuming Eshan'tarl has no clue that you're behind it and the Armathwn Society is really just a group of surviving Zilartians in Jeuno who also run Jeuno and cover up the fact that the Archduke is dead. In fact, it is them who handle everything that happens in the city to begin with.... Even in Voidwatch, when they extend to Jeuno areas, it is a Armathwn guy who issues orders to you.

Switching nations.. well.. isn't canon to the story. Just as the Archduke is "already dead" when you attempt the missions, so too is the Shadow Lord.

Far East emptiness is never really explained but I kinda assume that just happens to be some side effect of Emptiness that occurs there for no real reason.

whilst there is no timeline established between CoP and ToAU or WotG, one can safely assume that all of them are supposed to occur affter CoP ends.
Abyssea storyline carries on from after CoP, to say the least.. and Voidwatch story starts somewhere after WotG begins.. possibly after its end.

[Gwynplaine]

No, the existence of the Shadow Lord was creating the "noise" in the crystal line. The zilart couldn't do anything to begin opening the gates of paradise until the Shadow Lord was dead again how he should be and the "noise" was gone. They say this very matter of fact in the cutscene right after you kill him.

IIRC the emptiness in the far east they said it was haunting or killing children in their dreams or something?

[Rocl]

I don't remember anything saying the terrestrial avatars were linked to crags. I could be wrong though, I often am.

Possible I made that connection up. I had definitely thought they were connected to the races (I specifically remember Phoenix & Galka) and the races are connected to the crags (well, the mothercrystals housed in them), so that's where I was coming from.

[ronin sparthos]

The emptiness was also eating away at the land according to Tenzen.

[Hyan]

It just seems really weird that there's supposed to be more world when everything is so centrally located.

Imo we were never intended to leave the vanilla continents but then somewhere between end of rotz and cop they came up with the grand plan to expand the world. I wouldn't be surprised if they had everything set up for until the end of cop and most things after that were afterthoughts. Maybe aside from Odin's part in the grand scheme of things?

In the end it became such a cocktease....and plot holes started appearing.

[Gwynplaine]

I doubt that very much seeing as how the boats that go to the far continents were put straight into the main game since the beginning. The opposite is probably true. They intended to expand to all the areas but shit was harder and more time/resource consuming than expected. So instead they just recycled all the already existing shit and crapped out Wings and Abyssea to focus on 14 then move on.

[Azat]

From what I understood appearance of the emptiness in the far east was due to the general power drain of the crystal energy when the prince activated the gates. Think I remember them explaining the farthest points from the crystals, namely the far east, were showing the first signs of the emptiness. Kinda of thought of the crystal energy like a puddle that gets smaller due to evaporation.

I vaguely remember it being spoken that the localized emptiness in the crags was the result of Selh'teus stealing some energy from each crystal.

[Niiro]

I doubt that very much seeing as how the boats that go to the far continents were put straight into the main game since the beginning. The opposite is probably true. They intended to expand to all the areas but shit was harder and more time/resource consuming than expected. So instead they just recycled all the already existing shit and crapped out Wings and Abyssea to focus on 14 then move on.

Not sure what you mean, there's only 1 boat that goes to another continent and it was simply added to an already used port (Mhaura).

[Spira]

No, the existence of the Shadow Lord was creating the "noise" in the crystal line. The zilart couldn't do anything to begin opening the gates of paradise until the Shadow Lord was dead again how he should be and the "noise" was gone. They say this very matter of fact in the cutscene right after you kill him.

IIRC the emptiness in the far east they said it was haunting or killing children in their dreams or something?

yes.. but that doesn't mean that the events that led to CoP would have occured at that point.

its true theres really nothing to say either situation would have kickstarted CoP, but the fact that CoP is a separate story from RotZ lol.

..as for the boats.. well. they only intended for the main continents to be accessible in FFXI in the initial concept plan - hence how early amano art of vana'diel only feature those continents (but also in a lot of detail). this isn't to say the far east/southern islands/other continents never existed.. they just never planned for players to ever go to them. When ToAU was added they just decided to throw the boats in someplace that already existed.

rightfully speaking if they followed in the plan they probably had before conceiving ToAU, what you'd have ended up seeing for the expansions after it are various zones and regions inserted in places which kinda allowed for it. There are lots of fake caves and tunnels that lead to nowhere, like in Zitah, Batallia, Sauromugue, Altepa which could still possibly be used some day. instead they did 1 real huge expansion and the rest were just a bunch of areas and many remixed zones since then

[Ferr]

What I didnt understand was Promathia intentions? Wasnt he a good god?At the end Prishe hints that Altana loved him, so I assumed they were living happily till Promathia died. But then, why he did want to kill everything after his death and "resurrection" by Altana?
And why that involved to kill himself (or so says Seltheus)?

Also, I though that at the end, Promathia just gives up to kill everyone when he hear Altana..

[Septimus]

I am quite sure that Esha'ntarl knew about her brothers' deaths and that we were involved during. I doubt that they kept their plans to wreck up the world secret from the Armathrwn Society, just just probably didn't have the juice with them alive to stop them. With them dead though, she was the highest-ranking member (being the King's daughter), especially with Nag'molada on the outs with the Society. I doubt that she would harbor any ill will towards us, since they did die trying to destroy the planet.

And I do remember a mention of Terrestrials linking up with mother crystals and races. I the only ones I remember are Bahamut with Vahzl and Phoenix with Al'Taieu. I don't remember if this was supported in game, with supplemental materials, or just player theorycraft.

What I didnt understand was Promathia intentions? Wasnt he a good god?At the end Prishe hints that Altana loved him, so I assumed they were living happily till Promathia died. But then, why he did want to kill everything after his death and "resurrection" by Altana?
And why that involved to kill himself (or so says Seltheus)?

Also, I though that at the end, Promathia just gives up to kill everyone when he hear Altana..

Promathia's intention was that he wanted to die. I think that because the Emptiness was contained in the five races of Altana, the only way for him to die a complete death was for us to die a complete death also. We would consider an extinction-level event to be fairly evil, but to Promathia we were just pawns (and we were pawns in Altana's scheme to keep Promathia alive) in the way of what he wanted.

Maybe he wanted to die because he was bored of eternity and wanted to shake things up. It is one of those things where we probably wouldn't understand a god's reasoning skills. But of course Altana did love him, just like she loves all of the other characters in the game. She just isn't very good at showing it. Or doing anything about it. Like when the Crystal War went bad, instead of going all "DEUS EX MACHINA" upside the Shadow Lord's head, she waited until the end of time, cried, then expected those tears to fix everything. And a bang up job they did.

[Souj]

I haven't even gotten half way through wotg yet, but has there been any actual proof that Altana actually does exist? From what I remember, Yvon...the head dawn maidens, i think mentioned talking to altana or talking for her or something, but i dont remember the zilart ever saying they saw/knew her, they only talk about paradise, or anything else.
Maybe we all evolved from Opo-opos!!

[Ferr]

Promathia's intention was that he wanted to die. I think that because the Emptiness was contained in the five races of Altana, the only way for him to die a complete death was for us to die a complete death also. We would consider an extinction-level event to be fairly evil, but to Promathia we were just pawns (and we were pawns in Altana's scheme to keep Promathia alive) in the way of what he wanted.

Yeah, though it seemed odd to me how he died, like if he gave up after hearing Altana.

Maybe he wanted to die because he was bored of eternity and wanted to shake things up. It is one of those things where we probably wouldn't understand a god's reasoning skills.

that, or maybe he was in pain because the Emptiness in him? What I did understand is that he was hit with the Emptiness when he was in paradise
yeah that could be the case, though is odd how he seems to give up at the end. Maybe he sees us as his children when he hears Altana, like her.

She just isn't very good at showing it. Or doing anything about it.

Seriously, she is really useless. Wasnt the split of the crystal her fault when she was trying to resurrect Promathia also?

I haven't even gotten half way through wotg yet, but has there been any actual proof that Altana actually does exist?

well, she does speak at the end of CoP so yeah

[Ocara]

Yeah, though it seemed odd to me how he died, like if he gave up after hearing Altana.

He didnt really die, he returned to the crystal. They mention at the end battle of CoP that the keeper will be reborn some day because Promathia returned to the crystal instead of dying his true death (which would require everyone to die; see Abyssea plot for what he would ideally do if we didn't stop him.)

[Spira]

Promathia always wanted to die because he was kinda meant for oblivion.. Altana didn't wanna let him cos she loved him so she was the one who destroyed paradise and gave birth to the 5 races harboring fragments of Promathia.

Eshantarl was never on the side of the Armathwn society. She is after all the only Zilartian who actually lived consciously the last 2000? years. She never underwent the stasis that the princes and those in delkfutt had cos she wasn't there. She was busy gathering the pieces of the puzzle of Promathias return, talking to Fenrir, that sort of thing... But her returning to them would give her defacto leader status after the death of her brothers

Yvenoile and the dawnmaidens had a special relationship with
Altana and it's kinda implied they had some means of convening with her.
Altana most definitely does exist anyway. She appears in CoP and WotG thru her tears...

She does seem kinda useless now since she doesn't really intervene very much, but then again she did split the world apart maybe it was tiring