FFXI Plot-holes and unclear issues

[Hyan]

Nothing wrong with XIV's lore tho, albeit they might fuck it up with the whole reboot thing.

[Charismatic]

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A followup expansion on WOTG (a trip to Lilith's steampunk future)

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You have no idea how much that would piss me off considering the two are supposed to be completely separate now, the whole deal where you send Lilisette off at the end would lose all meaning (similar to how Lion's sacrifice did) if they pulled some shit like that.

[Septimus]

Watch the opening Cutscene the illustration I'm guessing reflects those that fought against the beastmen as they invaded Tavnazia them being not colored I guess resembles their spirits that were left un-rested on that night, the models drawn in the picture closely resemble the characters of the cutscene.

The expansion was pretty shallow it could have been so much more then what it turned out to be but that's what 10$ is worth, could go buy a bunch of bubble gum and some pretzels and have a better evening then playing through the mini-expansions that offer up no real story.

I wrote this some time back on ffwiki when i was trying to clean up their ffxi articles.. i think its a pretty good summary of what the Seed Crystal is.

A sentient crystal from ages past, it was drawn to Vana'diel by the ancient song Memoria de la S^tona resonating within Emeline's heart. As the song itself prophesies destruction, the Seed Crystal seeks to return Vana'diel to the darkness from which it was born. It was banished by both the efforts of the player and the song's antiphon, the Ode of Life Bestowing, through the peoples' will to live.

essentially, it was a badly thought out plot device. ACP was the worst add-on by far.

agreed to that extent. they overdid trying to stretch the world laterally instead of just going ahead with adding new areas. it kinda spoils the experience of the world view tho..
i mean.. how many universes and parallel worlds are there now? its almost as bad as a marvel comic.

Honestly the multiverse hasn't become so bloated yet that a reboot would be needed. We've got 3 important universes in XI: Lilith's , Prime universe, Abyssea. The rest are just throwaway.

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Sadly XIV is the only thing slated for some lore in the upcoming future. >(

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A followup expansion on WOTG (a trip to Lilith's steampunk future) or Abyssea (rebuilding after the nigh apocalypse) wouldn't be terrible if done correctly. All of the previous expansions have followed eachother chronologically anyway.

I would love to see new storylines that follow the ramifications of the various missions. How is the rebuilding of Tavnazia going? What about the Eastern Empire's war with Aht Urhgan? (You would think that someone who has helped both of them like the player has would be called upon to negotiate a peace treaty.) Is Lilisette having an luck making Lilith's world better? And one of the most dangerous thoughts, what if the Celestial avatars start waking up?

So much potential just sitting there...

[Priran]

it would please me to no end if SE tied together 11 and 14's story. just pull some EQ2 shit and say FFXI is the... 3rd? (zilart -> alzadaal -> current) astral era.

but nope, let's just be lazy cunts and keep HD-reskinning FFXI mobs and namedropping the randomest shit like a guildleve saying you're working for the brugaire consortium because thinking of new names is hard.

[6souls]

Spoiler: show

You have no idea how much that would piss me off considering the two are supposed to be completely separate now, the whole deal where you send Lilisette off at the end would lose all meaning (similar to how Lion's sacrifice did) if they pulled some shit like that.

Unless the upcoming Atomos & Cait Sith avatars represent Voidwatch, they'll probably attempt to tie up loose ends like they did when they added Alexander & Odin, or they'll just make it more convoluted.

[Odin'sLaw]

i always though Lilith's world abyssea and voidwatcher was one in the same, but voidwatcher is abyssea coming to us instead of us going to abyssea.....rifts be ruining our world now >< (i'd love a steampunk world but that's just me)

Edit: i know abyssea is what happened after we failed CoP but i like to think of it like futurama there are only 2 different dimensions us and one's that wear cowboy hats, so in our case

the cool world where we beat shit everytime and the world that's doomed to suck balls

[Rocl]

Well you are almost 100% wrong in thinking there are only 2 worlds. The fact there were 3 Shantottos in A Shantotto Ascension pretty much proves you wrong immediately.

And the fact in the Abyssea add-ons, we would have to have won the Crystal War to remove the noise in the Crystal Line to open the path to Tu'Lia to have Lion sacrifice herself to start the events of Chains of Promathia to have us work our way to Promatha to lose.

In Lilith's world the Crystal War never ended. In Abyssea, it had to have ended with the Shadow Lord dead. Assuming all their pasts are the same. [btw, wtf @ Promathia/Altana? They are clearly not above the different dimensions, well, Promathia isn't but Altana is??? Altana can pick and choose between Lilith's world and ours but Promathia can exist as a dead man in our world and as Shinryu in Abyssea??? FUCKING TIME TRAVELLING PARALLEL DIMENSION BULLSHIT.]

[ronin sparthos]

Well you are almost 100% wrong in thinking there are only 2 worlds. The fact there were 3 Shantottos in A Shantotto Ascension pretty much proves you wrong immediately.

And the fact in the Abyssea add-ons, we would have to have won the Crystal War to remove the noise in the Crystal Line to open the path to Tu'Lia to have Lion sacrifice herself to start the events of Chains of Promathia to have us work our way to Promatha to lose.

In Lilith's world the Crystal War never ended. In Abyssea, it had to have ended with the Shadow Lord dead. Assuming all their pasts are the same. [btw, wtf @ Promathia/Altana? They are clearly not above the different dimensions, well, Promathia isn't but Altana is??? Altana can pick and choose between Lilith's world and ours but Promathia can exist as a dead man in our world and as Shinryu in Abyssea??? FUCKING TIME TRAVELLING PARALLEL DIMENSION BULLSHIT.]

Yeah, Abyssea assumes that the player stopped the zilart bros in order to initiate the events of CoP but minor things are changed around like how Curilla lost her eye.

My assumption is that because Promathia was divided in all dimensions to create the 5races, he no longer exists outside the multiverse like Altana does. There is only one Altana because she effectively exists outside of the whole construct as a chessmaster. Atomos is her trash compactor and the Caits were created to erase Lilith's particular Vana'diel and now to counter the Voidwatch.

Basically there are infinite dimensions in such a model with infinite Promathias, Celestials, Terrestrials assigned to each.

[Spira]

Our Vanadiel
Lillith's world
Shantoto B
Shantoto C
Abyssea
Voidwatch

So at least 6 (and im sure im missing some from the shantoto story or from voidwatch story)? When 2 with Walk of echoes staying as the inbetween world would have been 634785623786978x more epic. I'm still sad they didn't make abyssea as Lilliths world, when it would have been such an easy tie in.

come to think of it there are probably a few less than that.

We have our Vana'diel, which is pretty straightforward.. although we do have two sub-realms (for the sake of zone usage discussion), one being Dynamis, and the other being the Crystal Era.

Then theres Abyssea, which is a parallel dimension as a result of losing the battle to Promathia

Lilith's realm, is a parallel "original" reality, where they lost the Crystal War.

Belle and Domina are likely from the same universe, as it is implied that they were one being spliced into two as a result of dimension travel - they could have originated from any other dimension.

The origins of Voidwatch are still unknown at this point.. so I'll hold on that..

tentatively, we have 3 confirmed realms and possibly 2 more.. and i'm hoping they stop all this nonsense and focus on the rest of the undiscovered parts of Vana'diel. Aht Urhgan was extremely refreshing and we could easily have some other unexplored region fleshed out in the amount of zone resources they used for all 3 Abyssea add-ons, released in a similar style (9 big zones, 1 bc)..

*side-tracking for idyllism fanspeculation* i was thinking they could release the far east in 3 add-ons.. the first being a town hub + 3 adjacent areas, the second being 3 areas branching from those areas that can be tele'd to from town hub. and the 3rd being 3 dungeons connected to those areas + 1 bonus dungeon/bc. to throw in more fun, in these areas are 3 warring clans and players have to pick an allegiance, for which they can engage in open PVP and storming other clan HQs (the dungeons) and yet have an overarching PVE story for which progress is affected by the PVP element.

back on track, there are a whole bunch of possibilities they can explore without having to go into the whole alter-world thing that they're doing with VW and Walk of Echoes... I'd like to see where the new crystal zone comes in tho..

[Priran]

The Last Stand is the Walk of Echoes for a second universe presided over by a second Altana whose coin tosses always have the opposite outcome of those in our universe!

[Gwynplaine]

There is only one other true alternate dimension: the dimension where Square doesn't want to spend time and money making new zones. It has many names but one face.

[Septimus]

Spoiler: show

You have no idea how much that would piss me off considering the two are supposed to be completely separate now, the whole deal where you send Lilisette off at the end would lose all meaning (similar to how Lion's sacrifice did) if they pulled some shit like that.

Oh, I must have missed this post...

Spoiler: show

If you thought that Lilisette being caught in Lilith's dimension was a forever thing, you need to rewatch the end. It was stated that Lilisette would have to remain there "until the Cavernous Maws freeze into stone". The Cavernous Maws in the present are stone, meaning that she can come back at any time. Not sure if she would be older or not, i.e. stuck in the past taking the long route to our present.

Unless the upcoming Atomos & Cait Sith avatars represent Voidwatch, they'll probably attempt to tie up loose ends like they did when they added Alexander & Odin, or they'll just make it more convoluted.

I am still hoping against hope for an Apocalypse Nigh type quest to tie up ToAU and WotG since there was a lot of cross-over between them.

Yeah, Abyssea assumes that the player stopped the zilart bros in order to initiate the events of CoP but minor things are changed around like how Curilla lost her eye.

My assumption is that because Promathia was divided in all dimensions to create the 5races, he no longer exists outside the multiverse like Altana does. There is only one Altana because she effectively exists outside of the whole construct as a chessmaster. Atomos is her trash compactor and the Caits were created to erase Lilith's particular Vana'diel and now to counter the Voidwatch.

Basically there are infinite dimensions in such a model with infinite Promathias, Celestials, Terrestrials assigned to each.

It does bring up an interesting point, would Altana exist outside of the multiverse or would there be an infinite number of Altanas also? She wept 10 tears at the end of the universe where the Crystal War never ended causing an alternate universe, but why didn't she weep for Abyssea? (Or did she and they became our Cavernous Maws?) Alternate universes just make things too convoluted...

[Gwynplaine]

That's what happens when you introduce contradictions. It cheapens everything.

[Septimus]

That's what happens when you introduce contradictions. It cheapens everything.

Maybe it is just that alternate universes are so cliche that if you don't play them for laughs (i.e. everyone has cowboy hats or is evil with a goatee) it is hard to deal with them well.

[Charismatic]

Oh, I must have missed this post...

Spoiler: show

If you thought that Lilisette being caught in Lilith's dimension was a forever thing, you need to rewatch the end. It was stated that Lilisette would have to remain there "until the Cavernous Maws freeze into stone". The Cavernous Maws in the present are stone, meaning that she can come back at any time. Not sure if she would be older or not, i.e. stuck in the past taking the long route to our present.

I don't really understand how that would actually make any sense. Wouldn't they actually have turned to stone because she restored the barrier between the dimensions? How, exactly, is she supposed to come back?

[Miroku_Asura]

Side question, but if Lilisette can come back when the maws turned to stone, I'm wondering if that means just the ones connecting to the past or if somehow SE has a plan to tie Abyssea and WotG together. I could see them making a final fight where you're assisted by Prishe (A) and Lilisette (akin to the Promathia fight) in the Abyssean Paradox against Atomos or an image of him at least. Meh, who knows.

[Septimus]

I don't really understand how that would actually make any sense. Wouldn't they actually have turned to stone because she restored the barrier between the dimensions? How, exactly, is she supposed to come back?

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Altana allows players free access to the frozen Cavernous Maws with the Pure white feathers. Lilisette was also able to freely move back and forth between the past and present, so she should be able to use the frozen maws because she has a matching feather. Then again, the frozen maws aren't all that frozen, there is a cutscene in Sauromugue Champaign (S) if you have an NPC because he/she got pulled in while investigating the frozen maw in the present. But was explicitly stated that she will be able to return when the maws are frozen in stone, the out for the situation was already written so they don't have to ass-pull one later. And it is better that way, because you know that they wouldn't leave a main character from expansion in limbo forever.

Side question, but if Lilisette can come back when the maws turned to stone, I'm wondering if that means just the ones connecting to the past or if somehow SE has a plan to tie Abyssea and WotG together. I could see them making a final fight where you're assisted by Prishe (A) and Lilisette (akin to the Promathia fight) in the Abyssean Paradox against Atomos or an image of him at least. Meh, who knows.

One could only hope.

[Ophannus]

Seed Crystal = Mothercrystal or what? Kind of no explanation.

[Septimus]

Seed Crystal = Mothercrystal or what? Kind of no explanation.

No, it was a different crystal. Were it the Mothercrystal, we would have been in deep shit.

[Ophannus]

So it was a random sentient crystal that appeared with the purpose of restoring the crystal to its former splendor? I wonder where it came from and who sent it. Seems like it failed for the same reason Promathia failed and the Zilart failed. POWEROFLOVE WILLTOLIVE