FFXI Plot-holes and unclear issues

[ronin sparthos]

So it was a random sentient crystal that appeared with the purpose of restoring the crystal to its former splendor? I wonder where it came from and who sent it. Seems like it failed for the same reason Promathia failed and the Zilart failed. POWEROFLOVE WILLTOLIVE

It failed because the plot was shit and made no sense.

[ronin sparthos]

I don't really understand how that would actually make any sense. Wouldn't they actually have turned to stone because she restored the barrier between the dimensions? How, exactly, is she supposed to come back?

You're right, she can't. Unless SE handwaves the events at the conclusion WOTG, Lilisette is trapped in Lilith's alternate future as it's only connection via maws was to the Shadowreign and those have been severed from the Walk of Echoes as far as we know.

I mean, if SE really wanted to create a setup for an expansion in that time period they could easily have a slightly older Lilisette return from that future using a maw connected to Vana'diels present to get around the whole "maws turned to stone" mess.

[Sagacious Sundi]

So when Lilith summoned Odin and got her parents branded, was that past Odin or the Odin from her future? Does that scene take place after the fall of Tavnazia (ie the kidnapping of Aldo's sister to awaken Odin)? It's not really important, just something that occurred to me.

Oh and what the hell happened to Atomos at the end, when it tried to devour both Altana and Odin or something? Best I could think of is that it either had an emotional hissyfit, or is a logical computer of sorts, thus the deaths of both Lilith and Lilisette made it deem both realities dispensable. Or it had good intentions and knew that doing so would end up restoring all timelines. Or shitty writing. Hopefully it'll be explained in the summoning quest.

[ronin sparthos]

So when Lilith summoned Odin and got her parents branded, was that past Odin or the Odin from her future? Does that scene take place after the fall of Tavnazia (ie the kidnapping of Aldo's sister to awaken Odin)? It's not really important, just something that occurred to me.

Oh and what the hell happened to Atomos at the end, when it tried to devour both Altana and Odin or something? Best I could think of is that it either had an emotional hissyfit, or is a logical computer of sorts, thus the deaths of both Lilith and Lilisette made it deem both realities dispensable. Or it had good intentions and knew that doing so would end up restoring all timelines. Or shitty writing. Hopefully it'll be explained in the summoning quest.

Tavnazia has fallen by the time you reach Darkness Descends (where Lilith summons Odin) because the prerequisite to make it that far on the main story arc is to have completed "Blood of Heroes" on the Sandy arc which takes place after a previous mission (Bonds that never Die) where we clearly see Tavnazia destroyed.

As for Odin? It's the Shadowreign Odin as he asks who summoned him which wouldn't make sense if Lilith packed her time periods Odin along with her. She merely summoned Odin knowing that her parents would complete the pact after Ragelise was discharged from the Allied Forces and that Odin would oblige.

Fun Fact: Odin opens with the same line to Portia/Ragelise that he uses on you in the final chamber of Einherjar.
"In ages past, I oft journeyed the boundless aethyr to pay visit this emerald isle."

[Spira]

Atomos choked.. there were too many memories relevant to Altana and Odin to devour.

[Septimus]

You're right, she can't. Unless SE handwaves the events at the conclusion WOTG, Lilisette is trapped in Lilith's alternate future as it's only connection via maws was to the Shadowreign and those have been severed from the Walk of Echoes as far as we know.

I mean, if SE really wanted to create a setup for an expansion in that time period they could easily have a slightly older Lilisette return from that future using a maw connected to Vana'diels present to get around the whole "maws turned to stone" mess.

Spoiler: show

Cait Sith: Lilisette!

Cait Sith: Oh, thank the Goddess you haven't taken harm!
We must quit this place without delay! Put distance between it and ourselves!

Lilisette: Wait!

Lilisette: I...can't leave with you. The gates...they must be closed.

Lilisette: Unless somebody stops the two realities from breaching one another, there's no future for us--for anyone.

Cait Sith: What do you mean? What is your meaning?

Lilisette: I must cross over to the world of strife and seal off Atomos from there.

Cait Sith: Wh-what did you say!? Come again!?

Lilisette: But...that's not all. I want to grant Lilith--my other self--her dying wish.

Cait Sith: ...

Lilisette: (Player Name). As I seal off Atomos from Lilith's world, I need you to do the same in ours.

Lilisette: And then we must keep watch over it, making certain that the two realities collide no more.

Lilisette: Patiently and resolutely, until the day Atomos turns to stone.

Will you do as requested?
Anything for my Lilisette.
I'm not sure I can...

Lilisette: Please, (Player Name)! You're my tag-team partner!
There's none other I can depend on!

Lilisette: Thank you, (Player Name). I knew I could depend on you.
Now then, let us go and finish this.

Lilisette: Hehehe...
What we're about do--it's a grand finale worthy of the proud name of Future Fabulous, don't you think?

Lilisette: (Player Name). I want you to have this, to remember me by.

Lilisette: Come what may, I won't ever forget you.

Lilisette: So promise me you won't ever forget me either.

Lilisette: The countless journeys we embarked upon...
The battles we fought, the insurmountable odds we overcame...

Lilisette: Every single moment we spent together--even the mundane--I will treasure for all my days.

Lilisette: Space and time may separate us, but you will always be a part of me.

Lilisette: Well, this is it. I'd best be off.

Lilisette: Cait Sith. (Player Name).
From the bottom of my heart, thank you. For everything.

Lilisette: Till we meet again!

Cait Sith: Lilisette...

Cait Sith: Lilisette!

Cait Sith: Hm? Has Atomos...stopped?

Cait Sith: Should Lilisette succeed in closing the gateway, Atomos will gradually revert to a petrified state. Fall into a deep slumber.

Cait Sith: The process may take years--perhaps decades--but the Distorter of Time will eventually become dormant. Distort time no more.

Cait Sith: (Player Name). I fear the hour of our parting, too, has come. Time to say goodbye.

Cait Sith: My mission here is accomplished. The purpose of my existence fulfilled.

Cait Sith: The Goddess needs no longer weep. No further call for sorrow.
As such, I must make like a tear and dry up. Disappear.

Cait Sith: Thank you, (Player Name).
It's been swell fighting alongside you. Had myself a gay old time.

Cait Sith: Take good care of your future, you hear? Watch over it in Altana's name!

This is the text from the final cutscene. When they want to bring Lilisette back they don't have to handwave anything, they have already Checkov'ed that gun. We closed Atomos from our side as well, but we have free reign to go back and forth between the present and the past. The fact that they mentioned the maws freezing into stone twice and Cait Sith explicitly stating that it could take "decades" is obviously important as the present is two decades after the Crystal War and the Cavernous Maws in the present have turned into stone.

[Spira]

isnt this exactly the same as when Eald'narche is defeated and Tu'Lia is "powered down" but you can still go back there and do shit anyway..?

like because its an MMO the world is supposed to be like a constant for all characters, so mission progress can change some things but you won't suddenly have a changed zone or see different things than people who havent done them

[Niiro]

And how the Super Zilart Bros. apparently continue to govern Jeuno in death.

[Priran]

because its an MMO the world is supposed to be like a constant for all characters, so mission progress can change some things but you won't suddenly have a changed zone or see different things than people who havent done them

I'm Blizzard and what is this

[Tortalius]

Lets be reasonable. Our stupidly old game is not designed to make that work. I'd wager it's a structural problem of the game itself, and honestly PS2 limitations probably will keep it that way.

[Spira]

And how the Super Zilart Bros. apparently continue to govern Jeuno in death.

at least you dont still see the archduke and his little brother in cutscenes anymore. in other words, its pretty much an unstated fact that they are dead. they either don't announce it because they don't want people to know.. or were too lazy to script it in and have NPC's dialogue change according to whether you talk to them before or after the fact.

I'm Blizzard and what is this

not sure what exactly u're referring to, but its the same thing really isnt it? except that instead of constant unchange, there is universal change.
take Cata for eg. the zone changes happened without you doing anything.. and once it did, there was no longer a way for you to go back to the old ones. its forever gone.

...what i meant by my statement was that in MMOs, you don't usually get situations where say I, having done the quest am now in like new version of Zone A whereas friend who hasn't is in old version of Zone A - and we cant meet each other or go to the other version of that zone. The idea of an MMO is you all play on the same field, unless its like an instance...

[Alkimi]

at least you dont still see the archduke and his little brother in cutscenes anymore. in other words, its pretty much an unstated fact that they are dead. they either don't announce it because they don't want people to know.. or were too lazy to script it in and have NPC's dialogue change according to whether you talk to them before or after the fact.

Had a friend do the cutscenes for Jeuno Voidwatch recently and Kam'lanaut is still there if you haven't finished Rise of the Zilart. For everyone else it's just random NPCs 'speaking on his behalf'.

Nice touch I think.

[Kaisha]

Had a friend do the cutscenes for Jeuno Voidwatch recently and Kam'lanaut is still there if you haven't finished Rise of the Zilart. For everyone else it's just random NPCs 'speaking on his behalf'.

Nice touch I think.

You sure he didn't get the CS in Sauro[S]? You can get and upgrade the Jeuno abyssite up to T2 via the past zones, which Kam'lanaut appears himself.

[NynJa]

I've always been under the assumption alternate Shantotto came from Abyssea. I thought it was their way of alluding to the next coming set of addons. Sort of how past expansions have contained traces of the next expansion.

to

That would still leave the Other alternate Shantoto lol.

I cant find any trace of a (A) version of shantotto existing in abyssea on other wiki, nor could I find her in any of the 9 zone dats, unless you see her in a cutscene and I forgot about it.

[Eurell]

to


I cant find any trace of a (A) version of shantotto existing in abyssea on other wiki, nor could I find her in any of the 9 zone dats, unless you see her in a cutscene and I forgot about it.

There were 2 Shantotos aside from the original in ASA. One could possibly be from abyssea, but that still leaves the other coming from god knows where. Someone did bring up the possibility of it being 1 shantoto split apart into 2 when she came into our world or something, but while it may be true, thats just as ridiculous as there just being a 3rd? world that shantoto came from lol.

[Apelila]

I thought ASA made it pretty clear that When Shantotto swapped dimensions, the alternate split into 2 personalities.

Thus we have
Shantotto Prime (Got zapped to god knows where)
Belle Shantotto (The good one)
Domina Shantotto (The 'bad' one)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-gzz...eature=related - She starts explaining around 3:20 what happened.

So only '2' Shantotto's, but the one that would up in Vanadiel was split into 2 personalities.

[Priran]

not sure what exactly u're referring to, but its the same thing really isnt it? except that instead of constant unchange, there is universal change.
take Cata for eg. the zone changes happened without you doing anything.. and once it did, there was no longer a way for you to go back to the old ones. its forever gone.

...what i meant by my statement was that in MMOs, you don't usually get situations where say I, having done the quest am now in like new version of Zone A whereas friend who hasn't is in old version of Zone A - and we cant meet each other or go to the other version of that zone. The idea of an MMO is you all play on the same field, unless its like an instance...

http://www.wowwiki.com/Phasing

[Septimus]

isnt this exactly the same as when Eald'narche is defeated and Tu'Lia is "powered down" but you can still go back there and do shit anyway..?

like because its an MMO the world is supposed to be like a constant for all characters, so mission progress can change some things but you won't suddenly have a changed zone or see different things than people who havent done them

The fact that we sealed off Atomos in the past means that we shouldn't have been able to use it in the present at the start of the WotG missions. (This is why time travel stories suck.) But even sealed off, Zogbog and your Adventuring Fellow got pulled into them from the present by accident, and the player and Lilisette were able to freely traverse them with the Pure white feathers. It could be argued that the Pure white feathers make us exempt from Atomos being sealed off, we could come and go to the Shadowreign as we pleased because we were the Wings of the Goddess. (Ha ha ha! Titular line.)

But my whole point is that they pretty much stated in the last WotG mission "She has to stay there until something that has already happened happens." There is just no reason to talk about the stone maws twice if it isn't important. I would hazard a guess that if we don't see Lilisette it has less to do with them leaving an opening in the storyline to allow it and more to do with a lack of budget.

[Odin'sLaw]

yes big bang theory says it best "i guess i should congratulate you on your time travel success haha" "would have been in order Lenard i'd have already come back in time and give it to myself" if we beat the last mission then it would have blocked off the maws before the characters are born (always felt our character are about 18 year old)

[Rocl]

I'd just love to kick the shit out of Portia again tbh

(I also really wish they'd have done the Spitewarden fight would be Spitewarden <Player Name>; alternatively a BC fight against a mirror party with intelligent AI would be an interesting fight, but you know, RDMs have staff skill and use Cataclysm its cool nbd melee all the time w/ like 4 acc)