FFXI Plot-holes and unclear issues

[Aldoras]

Hi^^
I think i need some help with the end of CoP:
Prishe finishes Promathia by throwing the star of Tavnazia, sending him back to the Mothercrystal.
But the Star is Magicite, right? and thats Emptiness, which was supposed to completely kill Promathia, which Altana wanted to prevent. So why is it that when you kill him with Magicite thats ok, but killing him with Emptiness would end the world? <.<

[Apelila]

Quick and dirty:

In order for Promathia to 'die' he had to absorb all his parts from all the people/things on the planet. The emptiniess within everyone. So for him to die that way, the world would have to end.

[Aldoras]

ok, so it wasn't enough Emptiness to kill him, but enough to send him back to the crystal.
But my next problem is Apocalypse Nigh: at first it took 10000 years for the Keeper to appear, but now a new one is forming instantly? and which one really is it, Kam'lanaut, Eald'narche, Nag'molada or the Shadow Lord? (btw i can see why the Zilart volunteer to help Promathia, to open paradise, but why does the SL want to become the Keeper?)

[Septimus]

ok, so it wasn't enough Emptiness to kill him, but enough to send him back to the crystal.
But my next problem is Apocalypse Nigh: at first it took 10000 years for the Keeper to appear, but now a new one is forming instantly? and which one really is it, Kam'lanaut, Eald'narche, Nag'molada or the Shadow Lord? (btw i can see why the Zilart volunteer to help Promathia, to open paradise, but why does the SL want to become the Keeper?)

I think that the Shadow Lord was there because they wanted to show all of the Big Bads that were in the game to that point. (Plus 5 people show up, one for each crystal.) The real problem with the Shadow Lord's appearance in the scene is that Raogrimm's soul is trapped in Dynamis for all eternity, so either the Shadow Lord is considered a different personality who died which makes the Dynamis Lord a bit of a sticky wicket, or they just forgot that Raogrimm could not be included in the scene. But any way you slice it, this is a plot hole.

As for why a new Keeper would appear so suddenly, one could say that the machinations of the Zilart from beyond the grave is what did it, or that it made for an exciting and satisfying tie up of several plot points from both expansions. I would love for them to have an Apocalypse Nigh type quest for ToAU and WotG.

[Aldoras]

(Plus 5 people show up, one for each crystal.)

Damn yeah forgot about Lion <.< Why can she be summoned by the Lay of the Immortals anyways? And why does Prishe know her?

The real problem with the Shadow Lord's appearance in the scene is that Raogrimm's soul is trapped in Dynamis for all eternity, so either the Shadow Lord is considered a different personality who died which makes the Dynamis Lord a bit of a sticky wicket, or they just forgot that Raogrimm could not be included in the scene. But any way you slice it, this is a plot hole.

Maybe Raogrimm and the powers he got from Odin (which manifest as the SL) got separated when they returned to the crystal, and Raogrimm got drawn into Dynamis, SL did not. (does that sound a little far fetched to you? <.<) But then how did the Dynamis Lord come to be, and why do the souls that get drawn out by the Lay have a working body ... well i guess its just meh

As for why a new Keeper would appear so suddenly, one could say that the machinations of the Zilart from beyond the grave is what did it, or that it made for an exciting and satisfying tie up of several plot points from both expansions. I would love for them to have an Apocalypse Nigh type quest for ToAU and WotG.

yeah i guess AN was planned from the start as were the first two expansions, whereas the next two just got invented on the fly so probably nobody thought about connecting those two

[Eurell]

I forget exactly what was said, but Prishe knew Lion from the Diabolos mission. Something about seeing her in a dream or something.

[Septimus]

Damn yeah forgot about Lion <.< Why can she be summoned by the Lay of the Immortals anyways? And why does Prishe know her?



Maybe Raogrimm and the powers he got from Odin (which manifest as the SL) got separated when they returned to the crystal, and Raogrimm got drawn into Dynamis, SL did not. (does that sound a little far fetched to you? <.<) But then how did the Dynamis Lord come to be, and why do the souls that get drawn out by the Lay have a working body ... well i guess its just meh



yeah i guess AN was planned from the start as were the first two expansions, whereas the next two just got invented on the fly so probably nobody thought about connecting those two

Lion was summoned by the Lay of the Immortals because she was keeping the Star of Tavnazia safe from Nag'molada, Eald'narche, Kam'lanaut, and the Shadow Lord- apparently they needed it for their plan.

And I am fairly certain that Zilart was planned from the start, but CoP was thought up later. There are certain differences between the two, if you read through this thread you will find some of them.

I forget exactly what was said, but Prishe knew Lion from the Diabolos mission. Something about seeing her in a dream or something.

Specifically, CoP Dynamis. There are several different ending cutscenes depending on how far you are in the CoP storyline, but the nightmare was shared between the two of them.

[Suteru]

1) Where did the Promathia statue in Sacrarium that the moblins found originally come from?

2) What's up with Riverne? Just Wyrm Magic or is there another reason it's all floaty?

[Seraph]

2) What's up with Riverne? Just Wyrm Magic or is there another reason it's all floaty?

I always assumed it was some weird side affect from the event that destroyed the Tavnazian archipelago.

[Eurell]

2) What's up with Riverne? Just Wyrm Magic or is there another reason it's all floaty?

I always assumed it was some weird side affect from the event that destroyed the Tavnazian archipelago.

I think Riverne floating is supposed to be a relatively new occurrence.

[Sagacious Sundi]

Promathia statue was probably found underground near where Al'Taieu sank, so when they lost the statue to the Cardinal (that's what happened, right?) they just kept digging around that general area and found the fifth crystal.

And yeah I think it's strongly implied that Bahamut made Riverne float pretty much when your player enters Tavnazia.

EDIT: Was bringing Al'Taieu back to Vana'diel what "opening the Gates to Paradise" really was? So that's what the Zilart tried doing 10,000 years ago and in RotZ? And the entire purpose of the crags, Delkfutt, and Tu'Lia was solely to do that?

And was it ever said how Eald'narche got his vision about paradise? Did he just touch one of the mothercrystals? Taking into account CoP, I wonder if it was really Promathia who gave him those visions.

[Azat]

EDIT: Was bringing Al'Taieu back to Vana'diel what "opening the Gates to Paradise" really was? So that's what the Zilart tried doing 10,000 years ago and in RotZ? And the entire purpose of the crags, Delkfutt, and Tu'Lia was solely to do that?

And was it ever said how Eald'narche got his vision about paradise? Did he just touch one of the mothercrystals? Taking into account CoP, I wonder if it was really Promathia who gave him those visions.

If I remember right, from rotz point of view, the zilart believed the paradise was a separate physical location that could no longer be reached due to the crystal splitting, it was there hopes that combining the energies of all the crystals would create a portal to that realm. That was the original plan 10,000 years ago, a plan that failed due to fei'yin explosion creating a chain-reaction.

The visions Eald'narche had were after he touched the crystal, now if choose to believe rotz as a stand alone plot can assume it was memory fragments from the crystal that he saw and it was religious beliefs that pushed towards going to paradise, otherwise cop plot dictates it was the emptiness that fueled the desire to reach paradise.

From Rotz standpoint everyone, including the remaining zilart believed the capital city had sunk into the sea, but since the connection to that crystal was still operational there was no need to pursue the location of the capital. Al'Taieu returning in the present simply was a bi-product of the 2nd attempt to open the gates.

[Septimus]

If I remember right, from rotz point of view, the zilart believed the paradise was a separate physical location that could no longer be reached due to the crystal splitting, it was there hopes that combining the energies of all the crystals would create a portal to that realm. That was the original plan 10,000 years ago, a plan that failed due to fei'yin explosion creating a chain-reaction.

The visions Eald'narche had were after he touched the crystal, now if choose to believe rotz as a stand alone plot can assume it was memory fragments from the crystal that he saw and it was religious beliefs that pushed towards going to paradise, otherwise cop plot dictates it was the emptiness that fueled the desire to reach paradise.

From Rotz standpoint everyone, including the remaining zilart believed the capital city had sunk into the sea, but since the connection to that crystal was still operational there was no need to pursue the location of the capital. Al'Taieu returning in the present simply was a bi-product of the 2nd attempt to open the gates.

To add in one point to this, while bringing Al'Taieu back into Vana'diel wasn't opening the Gates to Paradise, it would have brought the Keeper of the Apocalypse back into Vana'diel and that would have been equally disastrous. (As we learned from Abyssea.)

And since it was pretty much explicitly stated that Raogrimm was able to contact Odin when he touched a Mother Crystal, it would be safe to think that Eald'narche may have had some contact with Promathia when he touched one.

[refresh]

Allied Expeition expedition had a part of the star of tavnazia made them go give into there arrogance.rage etc based on race. Raogrimm then went to odin crystal and made a pact to free him (30years a go) then when tavnazia was attacked he got Emeline who new the song (20years a go)

FFXI CoP [48] Three Paths - Where Messengers Gather (part5) your at odin protocrystal it is broken and prishe points out that the big boss of the kindred mithra think it promathia and when prishe is about to point out that it odin the fight starts cutting her off

FFXI CoP [53] More Questions Than Answers (part2) when ask about the The fifth verse to Emeline she flash back to beastmen and Demons taking her to odin crystal to break it using the song

one of the sin hunter side quests sin hunter go to find odin crystal and wants a tuning fork so she can speak to dark divinity aka odin she finds the protocrystal but it broken and then tell you she giving up

1st time you run into the Moblin it hinted there where digging for alexander but end up finding Promathia statue

the parts of Omega and Ultima you get in limbus are hinted to be sent to aht urhgan to rebuild alexander parts

fact you can make a pact to become odin knight (by redoing his fight) has many story line tie in with wotg will turn into a AN tie in like quest

now think about the fact the mission you get when Apocalypse Nigh is done is called The Last Verse

the fifth verse can break avatars protocrystal what can the The Last Verse do will we go back so far in time that we have to break the Mothercrystal and that is when we get to fight Altana as the final battle?

[Eurell]

Idk, I think Lillith was as close to altana as we're gonna gone in a boss fight.

[Septimus]

the parts of Omega and Ultima you get in limbus are hinted to be sent to aht urhgan to rebuild alexander parts

More than just hinted.

Hadiyah: "Insolent fool! Who gave you the right to speak my name? Have you no idea who I am? I am a blue mage! You must show proper respect around me!"
Hadiyah: "This... It is all artificial! The flesh...the blood...marvelous! This is most certainly a segment of Omega!"
Hadiyah: "May your name be praised, adventurer!
With this, restoration of the light divinity shall proceed in leaps and bounds!"

And then at the end of ToAU, we fight the newly restored light divinity Alexander.

One of the things that I really liked about the first three expansions is that the storylines flowed from one to the other.

[Odin'sLaw]

instead of WoTG we really should have got the Tenzen's isle to help rid of the emptiness there or w/e was slowly raping his homeland

[Spira]

Eald'narche's vision came from coming into direct contact with the mothercrystal (shown in a cutscene). He basically galvanized that vision into a religious movement to attain paradise again and its not likely driven by emptiness, because quite simply, the zilart were naturally born without emptiness. Only the kuluu were.

I'm pretty sure Raogrimm never came into contact with the Zvahl mothercrystal. He came into contact with Odin's protocrystal, which is how he made the pact to begin with. That protocrystal was later shattered by Emeline's lay.
However, as evidenced by the ToA (and WotG) storyline, one can make contact with Odin regardless of location and state of the protocrystal. Luzaf made the pact with Odin nearly 200 years prior.

Lilith Ascendant is the closest we'll get to fighting Altana. She resembles her 100% - this battle is meant to contrast the fact that we fight Promathia in CoP - in fact if you notice, the final battle is always directly related to the subject title of its expansion - Lilith was probably the most feasible way of making you fight Altana, which wouldnt' happen under normal circumstances since Altana is good / doesn't give a fuck to appear to anyone other than Promathia.

wrt expansion flow.. i never really saw a real flow between CoP -> ToA. Yes it was implied in Limbus, but then Limbus has no real storyline to speak of.

I personally think of ToA and WotG as a story pair, quite like RoZ and CoP were, thought they are only loosely linked by the recurring plot device of Odin granting powers to people.
in this sense, i see each story arc also joining back to the vanilla Shadow Lord story, whereby RoZ/CoP are linked because the Shadow Lord's revival was playing into the hands of the Zilart, and ToA/WotG are linked because the Shadow Lord was yet another puppet of Odin.

[Suteru]

Hadiyah: "This... It is all artificial! The flesh...the blood...marvelous! This is most certainly a segment of Omega!"
...
With this, restoration of the light divinity shall proceed in leaps and bounds!"

And then at the end of ToAU, we fight the newly restored light divinity Alexander.

"ΩΩΩΩΩΩΩ" makes more sense now.

What's with the armor in Nyzul? Was an expedition from [insert far-off-land] killed and did they lose their fancy armor? Is it ever explained?

[Spira]

comes from all the people the HNMs ate in the past