FFXI Plot-holes and unclear issues

[Septimus]

Eald'narche's vision came from coming into direct contact with the mothercrystal (shown in a cutscene). He basically galvanized that vision into a religious movement to attain paradise again and its not likely driven by emptiness, because quite simply, the zilart were naturally born without emptiness. Only the kuluu were.

I'm pretty sure Raogrimm never came into contact with the Zvahl mothercrystal. He came into contact with Odin's protocrystal, which is how he made the pact to begin with. That protocrystal was later shattered by Emeline's lay.
However, as evidenced by the ToA (and WotG) storyline, one can make contact with Odin regardless of location and state of the protocrystal. Luzaf made the pact with Odin nearly 200 years prior.

Lilith Ascendant is the closest we'll get to fighting Altana. She resembles her 100% - this battle is meant to contrast the fact that we fight Promathia in CoP - in fact if you notice, the final battle is always directly related to the subject title of its expansion - Lilith was probably the most feasible way of making you fight Altana, which wouldnt' happen under normal circumstances since Altana is good / doesn't give a fuck to appear to anyone other than Promathia.

wrt expansion flow.. i never really saw a real flow between CoP -> ToA. Yes it was implied in Limbus, but then Limbus has no real storyline to speak of.

I personally think of ToA and WotG as a story pair, quite like RoZ and CoP were, thought they are only loosely linked by the recurring plot device of Odin granting powers to people.
in this sense, i see each story arc also joining back to the vanilla Shadow Lord story, whereby RoZ/CoP are linked because the Shadow Lord's revival was playing into the hands of the Zilart, and ToA/WotG are linked because the Shadow Lord was yet another puppet of Odin.

Eald'narche's vision may have come from the mothercrystal, but it was not his own:

Diabolos: "Hah hah hah! Foolish children! Do you still aimlessly seek the dream of Paradise?"
Diabolos: "I must warn you. It is not your will that guides you to the gates...but the will of Promathia."

Even without the Emptiness, the desire to open the Gates of Paradise (and consequently destroy everything) is Promathia's doing. Although this may be a bit of a RetCon to the RotZ plot, this is part of the "Desire of Emptiness" cutscene.

After looking up the Raogrimm part, this is why I think that he had some contact with the Mothercrystal:

Shadow Lord: "Cornelia died protecting me..."
Shadow Lord: "But I came back. Not even death could keep me from exacting revenge on those who wronged me."
Shadow Lord: "A power hidden deep beneath the earth gave me a new form and granted me control over the nether beasts."
Shadow Lord: "It was then that I became aware--that I was made aware--of the dark anger smoldering deep within my soul."

(From the BC with the Shadow Lord)

Eald'narche: "What else?
To open the gate, the regeneration of the Chrysalis Core was necessary. However, the unexpected arrival of that Raogrimm character interfered with the crystals' power. His existence created too much 'noise.'"

(From the Stellar Fulcrum BC.)

The "power hidden deep beneath the earth" may be a reference to the Vazhl Mothercrystal which is under Castle Zvahl (that is the light that erupts from the ground in the front) where he died, but really, I cannot find anything explicit. (Why would he cause noise in the Crystal Line if he didn't have some connection to it? Also, the Shadow Lord BC was written long before CoP, so they may not have written a connection with Odin yet.) But it seems that it was the Star of Tavnazia is that brought Raogrimm to the Darkness Protocrystal.

Prishe: "But, as that doesn't bother me one bit, you shouldn't let it bother you either.
What I want to hear is the lowdown on the big boss behind the Kindred of the Northlands."
Prishe: "The Mithra seem to think that it's Promathia, but I know better than that."
Prishe: "So, who the hell is it?"
Louverance: "He's called the Divinity of Darkness by the beastmen, apparently."
Louverance: "I returned here to investigate that very fact..."
Louverance: "The legends of the northern islands tell that the Divinity of Darkness slumbers in this land."
Louverance: "At some time in the past, the Shadow Lord followed the voice of this sleeping deity to its source."
Louverance: "His actions led by the powerful stone in the possession of the Shadow Lord, the Divinity of Darkness created an army of demons to enter the service of his visitor."
Prishe: "I think I'm starting to get it now.
The being who the beastmen call Promathia is actually..."
Louverance: "Tell me!
I must know the truth!"

Who else misses the game's story?

[Qeomash]

I always assumed all of Nyzul isle was the result of "A Wizard Did It" (or "A Light Avatar Did It"). How else to explain why NMs from around the world were there? Yes, I know that the Gate mobs were meant to be the reason behind it, but still.

Who else misses the game's story?

Me, definitely. I've been trying to write an updated version of the History of Vana'diel to include ToAU/WotG, but it is very slow progress. Mostly for my own nostalgia fulfillment.

[Apelila]

The main story and my friends are what I miss the most. CoP may have been a little convoluted in execution but it made it feel like a Final Fantasy game vs an MMO with Final Fantasy elements.

[Eurell]

I loved doing all the missions and any quest that has any kind of storyline to it, especially the serpent generals. But it was WotG that blew the wife and I away the most. So many memorable CSs in that expansion. Getting to play through the battle of windurst was fucking awesome, seeing the Shadow lord come down and fuck up the entire army, The mitha reinforcements at Fort KnS, Shantoto showing up during the war, the Mithra going blind from shooting that bow, The Galka getting fucked up when they try to fight that battle alone, Excenmille drop kicking that orc lol, and pretty uch anything with Lillisettes dad. The one that really did it for us though, was finiding out hat we don't live in the original Vanadeil (befoe it got all convoluted with abyssea and VW and shit). I remember my wife jumping up and yelling Holy shit about 5 seconds before I hit that line in the CS, and then seeing yourself (even though this was predictable as fuck) come down as the final spitewarden was just fucking epic.

Zilart and CoP were really cool because I was trying to progress through those as I hit lvl 30, 40, 50 etc. But as far as best storyline and most unique battlefields, WotG can't be beat imo.

[Azat]

WotG would of really been a good expansion they hadn't dragged it out to a 3+ year timeline. Having to wait 6 months for the next progression of the main storyline was just too much to ask, it made following the storyline hard to remember or care about. While the concept of the alternating sideplot/main line stories was interesting, it seemed most people couldn't handle the storyline juggling. Overall it was just executed poorly.

[Eurell]

I'll admit 3 years suck. But the missions came out just as fast as any other update. It just took so long because their was 3x the amount of missions compared to the the expansion.

[Septimus]

I'll admit 3 years suck. But the missions came out just as fast as any other update. It just took so long because their was 3x the amount of missions compared to the the expansion.

Not really. During points of CoP we were getting six updates a year. For WotG we were down to 3 updates a year in some parts.

What WotG really had going for it more than its story is that they got so good at using the graphics and animation that they had. Howl from the Heavens part 5 (spoilers) is possibly the single best cutscene in the game, and is a good example that you can take an event from the past that was shrouded in myth and legend and make it surpass expectations.

[Eurell]

Ah, I was still low lvls while CoP was being updated, so I never got to notice how quick the updates came. I thought it was a pretty consistant 4 updates a year, same as ToAU. I could be remembering wrong though, though the fact that it had waaaaay more missions (if you cant the cities) than any other expansion still stands.

[Septimus]

Ah, I was still low lvls while CoP was being updated, so I never got to notice how quick the updates came. I thought it was a pretty consistant 4 updates a year, same as ToAU. I could be remembering wrong though, though the fact that it had waaaaay more missions (if you cant the cities) than any other expansion still stands.

The missions during CoP were structured a bit differently. ToAU and WotG had fairly straight-forward missions- go some place and get a cutscene or two, go someplace and kill a monster or get a BC. (Although the WotG mission in Beaucidine where you had to tag all of the Cait Siths, the Battle of Xarcabard, and collecting the Dawn fragments were notable exceptions.) CoP missions could include a combination of 4 or 5 cutscenes, dungeon crawls, popped fights, and BCNMs all for one mission. Also, CoP had a lot of optional side-quests that opened up when you did certain missions. I think all totaled, the two expansions were probably about the same amount of leg work, and now they would be about equal in terms of effort. (Fucking level caps.) The things that really hurt WotG in the end was how long it was drawn out (especially at the end when you could tell that they were padding it) and a lack of a restricted area like Sky and Sea meaning that progress was irrelevant.. It had a good storyline, likeable characters, and the best cutscenes in the entire game from a design standpoint- if they had put it out in a year and a half to two years and had an actual end-game goal it would be viewed much more favorably in equal terms to CoP for fan regard.

[Eurell]

The missions were very straight forward as far as, go here get a cs, go there, do a BC. But tons of the BCs were very unique. Sneaking around having to blow up the warmachine (or w.e they were called in campaign), a few that had hundreds of mobs you had to kill very quickly, one where one person would race from NPC to NPC at flee speed while the rest of the party would warp around the zone clearing a path.

I do agree that it needed an endgame zone, WoE (and provenance as well) is wasted as a lobby zone.

What CoP quests are you talking about btw? Only ones I can really think of are like the attowha and ulegrand (sp) map quests that give a little backstory on the characters. Or maybe X knife too I guess. I don't really think of them as part of the main storyline though, I think of them more like the serpent general quests.

[Septimus]

The missions were very straight forward as far as, go here get a cs, go there, do a BC. But tons of the BCs were very unique. Sneaking around having to blow up the warmachine (or w.e they were called in campaign), a few that had hundreds of mobs you had to kill very quickly, one where one person would race from NPC to NPC at flee speed while the rest of the party would warp around the zone clearing a path.

I do agree that it needed an endgame zone, WoE (and provenance as well) is wasted as a lobby zone.

What CoP quests are you talking about btw? Only ones I can really think of are like the attowha and ulegrand (sp) map quests that give a little backstory on the characters. Or maybe X knife too I guess. I don't really think of them as part of the main storyline though, I think of them more like the serpent general quests.

I am not talking about the complexity of the battles, I solely mean the complexity of the missions. For example, Affairs of State from WotG where you travel to Bastok Markets (S) and Windurst Waters (S) versus the Road Forks from CoP where you have to get cutscenes in San d'Oria, Carpenter's Landing, Windurst, kill NMs, climb up a mountain, etc. This isn't to say that CoP is better, just that if they did a much more straight-forward mission system the way that WotG was laid out (each fight gets its own mission name), they would be much more even on terms of volume of missions.

CoP had a lot of side-quests that you could only do after a certain mission, like Spice Gals, Secrets of Ovens Lost, Petals for Parelbriaux, Ducal Hospitality, In the Mood for Love, and Hook, Line, and Sinker. None of them are required, many of them don't really give much insight into the story, but they have the interesting mechanic of requiring mission progress to be available, which I think is pretty great.

[Eurell]

Yep yep, I may have worded it poorly, but I was trying to agree that WotG missions were fairly straight forward. I guess the uniqueness of the fights themselves wasn't completely relevant, I just brought it up because you had mentioned Battle of Jeuno (and 2 others) which I thought was also a very unique fight.

I'll have to look into some of those quests, I probably did most of em, but don't really remember them lol.

WotG probably would have been a bit better if the Campaign ops lived up to Assault at all. Only having 4 fun fights (and only if certain conditions were met) out of all those missions was sorta bleh.

[Septimus]

I don't even want to get into everything that was wrong with Campaign. Ops or medals, that system was fucked from the start and is part of what doomed the content of the expansion to mediocrity.

[arus2001]

Which is sad because Campaign is perhaps the closest SE got to mass scale inclusive greatness. It just lacked variety, balance(lol), and good rewards to keep people coming. The fact it basically became the EXP playground for reject jobs is disappointing, but reflective of other old game issues.

[Eurell]

I loved campaign lol, though it could get repetitive like anything else. OPs were just fucking horrid though.

[Apelila]

Campaign ops where awesome if you had friends on the bomb dropping one and allied with bastok. I took my roomates BLM from 70 to 75 in a week exploiting that pre-abyssea/miniexpansions.

Having said that, there's something horribly wrong with your design if its in the players interest to side with evil in the long run.

[Azat]

CoP had a lot of side-quests that you could only do after a certain mission, like Spice Gals, Secrets of Ovens Lost, Petals for Parelbriaux, Ducal Hospitality, In the Mood for Love, and Hook, Line, and Sinker. None of them are required, many of them don't really give much insight into the story, but they have the interesting mechanic of requiring mission progress to be available, which I think is pretty great.

CoP also had a number of quests that did flesh out the back stories for a number of support characters. The Search for Goldmane, Tea with a Tonberry?, Return to the Depths, Confessions of a Bellmaker to name a few, and pretty much all of the respective map quests. Since most of those quests were dependent on progress, it felt a bit like natural character growth for them and made their actions in the main storyline make a lot more sense.

[Septimus]

CoP also had a number of quests that did flesh out the back stories for a number of support characters. The Search for Goldmane, Tea with a Tonberry?, Return to the Depths, Confessions of a Bellmaker to name a few, and pretty much all of the respective map quests. Since most of those quests were dependent on progress, it felt a bit like natural character growth for them and made their actions in the main storyline make a lot more sense.

And here's hoping that they try that out again in the near future... :D

[Tarage]

Okay I was reading through the last few pages and Spira you said something that threw me off.

Carbuncle is female?

[Spira]

oops. did i say that? i believe the only terrestrial avatar that is actually female is phoenix.