FFXI Plot-holes and unclear issues

Sagacious Sundi · 2012-07-11 11:22

Originally Posted by Spira

probably for the mere reason of wanting to awaken their god..
afaik the kindred are sworn to Odin.. so that may be the reason why they'd want to free him

i doubt all the 'they say' statements of various race legends can be taken for a fact because, well.. we know where Odin ended up... but then again he did it 800+ years ago even when he was within the protocrystal, and he had no problems talking to Raogrimm from within the crystal either. i guess thats a slight plot hole.
That or what the tuning in out quests are trying to say is that Odin's protocrystal was shattered quite a long time ago, but someone used the Eye to seal him into a protocrystal again in bearclaw.. hence his ability to communicate outside so well... would line up with the fact that the eye was already in Tavnazia 30 years prior, but was intact during the crystal war 10 years later..

...about Cid, he corrected himself later on, saying that the star of tavnazia wasn't found in the northlands, it was the box (Eye of Altana) that was found there. The Star of Tavnazia is most definitely Prishe's embedded magicite. The shard that was broken off was sold to Cid, who gave it to the Expedition members to track down more of it, hence it remained in the northlands.

I'm not sure where the Mithra's shard came from tho.

There is some inconsistency with the dates tho. According to Carbuncle he sensed the arrival of the Keeper 30 years ago (tho this is probably an approximate) tho after some time it vanishes..
its possible she wasn't born the keeper but became it after a certain age, but she did mention she used to crave the will of promathia.. reunion lol, so its likely Carbuncles estimate is wrong, because 30 years ago is the approximate date of the expedition and that was after her emptiness was magicited

Maybe for a being like Carbuncle, years are mere seconds. When we say "10 seconds ago," it usually doesn't me we actually counted the exact amount of seconds. lol

**Suteru** · 2012-07-11 11:24

Where is Alexander's protocrystal anyway?

Nyzul Isle? And what is the Astral Candy? Does it open up to the realm where Altana resides? And was Promathia always chained up in Ru'Hmet or was that just a manifestation since all the emptiness from the thing that drained the Kuluu's emptiness there?

**Seraph** · 2012-07-11 12:14

Originally Posted by Suteru

Where is Alexander's protocrystal anyway?

Nyzul Isle? And what is the Astral Candy? Does it open up to the realm where Altana resides? And was Promathia always chained up in Ru'Hmet or was that just a manifestation since all the emptiness from the thing that drained the Kuluu's emptiness there?

Alexander's protocrystal is implied to have been destroyed long ago. This is reinforced by his need for a vessel to act in our world.

The King of the Zillart is the one chained up in Ru'Hmet that is freed at the end of CoP. I believe he sacrificed himself to try and contain all of the emptiness that was created by the Kuluu restoration machines.

**Septimus** · 2012-07-11 16:41

I think that shattering the Gloom Protocrystal was part of the pact between the Shadow Lord and Odin. The Shadow Lord gets power and a demon army from Odin, and in return Odin is freed from his slumber by the Shadow Lord.

I re-watched the scenes with the Eye of Altana last night, and I am more confused about it than I was before. Apparently there is Magicite inside of it, which makes absolutely no sense that it can crystallize Emptiness into more Magicite and was used as a Baptismal vessel for the Church of Tavnazia. (Which Esha'ntarl was a part of for at least 100 years according to one of Jabbos's flashbacks.) And when it opens, there is no Magicite in it. I think that I am going to have to go with A Wizard Did It, and move on with my life.

Anyway, Prishe was the Keeper of the Apocalypse but was not activated yet. With the incident with the Eye of Altana, the Will of the Keeper of the Apocalypse was transferred to the King of the Zilart in Al'Taieu. (Which is why Bahamut woke up when Al'Taieu started moving back into Vana'diel. Or he my have been in Al'Taieu, once more, unclear.)

Oh, one plot point that really bothers me is about the Terrestrial Avatars. Diabolos says that he was born in Pso'Xja because of the Kuluu, Phoenix says that they were beasts in Paradise that were transformed after the Mother Crystals split. These seem to be fairly mutually exclusive origins, especially since the purpose of the Terrestrial Avatars is to protect the Mother Crystals. (The Zilart had been around for a while before Kuluu started to appear.) This and the origin of the Tonberries are the two biggest plot holes in the game so far. (I guess "how did Odin fight in the last Ragnarok nearly 900 years ago" is a pretty big one as well.)

**Odin'sLaw** · 2012-07-11 16:53

Odin = the wizard of all wizards it seems, and i've always looked at diablos as a weird biological weapon made by the kuluu/Zi'lart's because the closest animal to him is a bat but i doubt they had bats (dragons i can believe but never bats)

**Raldo** · 2012-07-11 17:10

Originally Posted by Septimus

This and the origin of the Tonberries are the two biggest plot holes in the game so far. (I guess "how did Odin fight in the last Ragnarok nearly 900 years ago" is a pretty big one as well.)

I thought the tonberry thing was quite explicitly explained in ZM4...?

**Septimus** · 2012-07-11 17:17

Originally Posted by Raldo

I thought the tonberry thing was quite explicitly explained in ZM4...?

It was.

And then Diabolos completely re-explained it.

In ZM4 Grav'iton states that all of the Kuluu fled to the Temple of Uggalepih and were changed by the effects of the Meltdown into the Tonberries. In PM5-2, Diabolos says that the Kuluu came to him after the Meltdown and asked him to remove their Chains, and that is what turned them into the Tonberries. (And also we find Tonberries living in Pso'Xja.)

**Raldo** · 2012-07-11 17:33

One could argue that the ones located in the Ugly Temple simply didn't know exactly why they turned into Tonberries, so they attributed it to the "power of the crystals". In ZM4, you're also told that the Kuluu all went to the Ugly Temple, which flies in the face of the fact that tonberries exist in Pso'xja. The ZM4 lady could have just not known about some Kuluu who wound up in Pso'xja and did the dirty with Diabolos, and when Diabolos lifted the chains on the race as a whole, it affected the folks in the Ugly Temple too.

It's a pretty obvious retcon, of course, but if you look at it from the point of view of the people saying these things and you're ok with the idea that the people giving you explanations might not know the whole picture, it makes sense.

Alternative 1) You could throw the above theory in reverse and say that Diabolos' business worked just fine, but they were already doomed. The crystal shit got to them anyway, and diabolos simply thought he caused it.

Alternative 2) You could argue that Cryptonberry and Tonberry are two completely separate entities created by two completely separate events. I'm not a fan of that explanation.

I feel like the Tonberry thing was discussed before, but I stopped following this thread a long time ago and only poked my head back in recently. Sorry for any re-hashing.

**Septimus** · 2012-07-11 17:55

The problem is that it was a fairly pointless retcon. There was already an explanation as to where the Tonberries came from, giving another explanation is just sloppy writing. If they wanted to make the point about the Chains of Promathia being necessary, they could have done it in a way that didn't interfere with the cannon. For example: "Before the Meltdown, a group Kuluu came to me and asked me to remove their chains. The result was unfortunate, they became the Tari that are condemned to roam Uleguerand Range for all eternity." Or maybe the Kindred or Golems or Slimes or Manticores or any of the other myriad of creatures which would be horrifying and tragic.

**Tarage** · 2012-07-11 18:22

Two different groups of Kuluu went through two different processes to become the same thing.

Plothole sealed.

**Souj** · 2012-07-12 00:28

You are all wrong. There is another explanation given and it is obviously the true one.
The Goddess of Uglypeople was so hot that she thought she was hotter than Altana. So Altana made her and her kingdom into mutant turtle things. And now the Goddess of Uglypeople wants revenge against Altana, so that is why they are all evil and stuff.

**Apelila** · 2012-07-12 04:06

Originally Posted by Souj

You are all wrong. There is another explanation given and it is obviously the true one.
The Goddess of Uglypeople was so hot that she thought she was hotter than Altana. So Altana made her and her kingdom into mutant turtle things. And now the Goddess of Uglypeople wants revenge against Altana, so that is why they are all evil and stuff.

http://cdn.bluegartr.com/customavata...tar31275_6.gif

*nods*

**Souj** · 2012-07-13 18:40

was there ever any kind of explanation for those hidden zilart structures all over vanadiel? the things in crawlers nest, feiyin, dangruf wardi, krt, and other places I no longer remember. the only one that makes sense is the one in feiyin

**Septimus** · 2012-07-13 18:48

Originally Posted by Souj

was there ever any kind of explanation for those hidden zilart structures all over vanadiel? the things in crawlers nest, feiyin, dangruf wardi, krt, and other places I no longer remember. the only one that makes sense is the one in feiyin

There is no stated explanation as to why the Strange Apparati exist. In one of the early Bastok missions, you had to go to Dangurf Wadi to test something for Cid, he said that the result indicated that there was an ancient settlement there once. Most likely the places where Strange Apparati exist now were sites of old Zilart/Kuliu towns that didn't hold up as well as their cities.

**Chamaan** · 2012-07-14 00:07

Not all of the Kuluu were changed by the Meltdown, so it could be that the Temple Tonberries were the ones that were changed in the Meltdown, and later the Kuluu that weren't transformed went to Diabolos and got hit by the bullet they dodged earlier.

As for the Apparatuses. I always assumed that they were just chunks of Zilart buildings that got screwed up in the shift to Al'Taieu, and that's why they're behind weird other-dimensional hidden doorways in random ass places.

**Tarage** · 2012-07-14 06:56

Originally Posted by Chamaan

Not all of the Kuluu were changed by the Meltdown, so it could be that the Temple Tonberries were the ones that were changed in the Meltdown, and later the Kuluu that weren't transformed went to Diabolos and got hit by the bullet they dodged earlier.

As for the Apparatuses. I always assumed that they were just chunks of Zilart buildings that got screwed up in the shift to Al'Taieu, and that's why they're behind weird other-dimensional hidden doorways in random ass places.

I like your theory for the Kuluu.

As for the strange aperati, they could easily be hidden Kuluu communication devices, or something that was used by them. I mean look at the dialogue they spout at you. They emulate matter using infinity cores. It could very well be that these emulated weapons that the Zilart had and the Kuluu didn't. That and the whole 'doctor' thing gives off a vibe of experimentation.

**Tarage** · 2012-07-23 05:37

Something interesting I found:

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Co...ns_with_a_Ruby

Once flowing through the canals that did line
The edges of cities way far out in the West
Now buried beneath barnacles and brine
Under bluest of waves as they foam and they crest
Soon covered by remnants of trees, oak and pine
Reduced to a hollow that mere rot can infest

Carbuncle has a link to the far west?

**Damane** · 2012-07-23 11:41

Originally Posted by Tarage

Something interesting I found:

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Co...ns_with_a_Ruby

Carbuncle has a link to the far west?

that might as well be refering to tavnazia

refresh · 2012-07-27 19:13

About Adoulin so may end up becoming sort of a spoiler

Laevateinn

Passed down for generations in the myths and stories of the peoples of the north is the World Tree motif, known to those intimately versed in such tales as Yggdrasill. One obscure legend tells of an ambitious Gigas who ventured to the center of the tree to obtain the single branch fabled to grow there, the “Branch of Ruin.” Known to sprout only the seemingly lifeless, skeletal frames of leaves in place of lush foliage, he plucked it at its base and made his way to the lands of the Dvergar, whom he commissioned to fashion the branch into Laevateinn.

Mulcibar's Scoria (drop's off Pandemonium Warden now)

Scraps of molten metal left over from the construction of an ancient city of demons.

all i can find that has links to the expansion video we will be going far north in the west maybe to the tip so may be new ice zones but all my bets are on a demon city by the end of the this expansion.

Sagacious Sundi · 2012-07-27 19:24

Wasn't Tartarus also one of the expansion keywords? That'll probably be the name of the demon place.

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