FFXI Plot-holes and unclear issues

**Kincard** · 2014-02-22 15:17

The story has a lot of backstory (To me it feels like they want to do a lot more but don't have the manpower, thus them literally just throwing up concept art for half the cutscenes), very little actually happening. Just some warning you might get annoyed by how a lot the story likes to treat the player like they're stupid (Like the leafkin pointing at Arciela...the "real" answer was actually the first thing I thought of, or the "riddle" Teodor tells in one of the Vignettes that isn't so much a riddle as it is just an open-ended question that he cheats on). Anytime something interesting happens it gets wrapped up really quickly...like they have this really rich backstory that want to tell but they need to space it out for sub fees so they fill the time with a bunch of irrelevant nonsense.

**Priran** · 2014-02-23 06:50

Originally Posted by Karbuncle

You know, Outer Ra'Kaznar has the sky-type floors that if you walk on them they create those cool unique footstep effects, except they're red... knowing how unlikely it is to be Zilart, I come to wonder it has to have some Zilart influences to it. I mean even the big map in Raz(U) is almost perfectly symmetrical like Ru'Aun(Palace place) in a way... I know this has been discussed back and forth and probably reach a conclusion somewhere when i was not reading :D, but its interesting to see how much this zone has in common with some of the Zilart structures.

I haven't caught up on the storyline yet, I'm genuinely curious to find out who built that palace.

it's a palace with an apostrophe in the middle of the name, abandoned yet still functioning automated security, force-field floors, and which you have to jump between floors to get from one side to the other to reach a machine which gives you a KI to use a magical elevator-type device

but it's not made of cermet so discussion over it can't be zilart

**Malithar** · 2014-02-23 07:04

Originally Posted by Priran

Is there any back story to Skirmish or Delve whatsoever?

Not really. The old lady (Emma? I forget her name, next to Olson under the umbrella, that handles the Twith Wings) gives some interesting details, but not really anything note worthy.

Delve there is really nothing at all. It's just there. And a mannequin sends us there. No back story to a talking mannequin walking around Adoulin either. Fairly disappointing story wise, overall.

**Spira** · 2014-02-23 12:31

Originally Posted by Priran

abandoned yet still functioning automated security, force-field floors, and which you have to jump between floors to get from one side to the other to reach a machine which gives you a KI to use a magical elevator-type device

so its Allagan then lol

**Prothescar** · 2014-02-23 16:41

Problem is absolutely none of the architecture, machines, or anything besides the glowy floors say "Zilart". None of it matches up. The geometry is square and sharp, whereas Zilart structures are always round, fluid, curvy. It's dark, the colors and atmosphere do not match those used in any other Zilart construct. The weapons/security units are nothing akin to Midartian/Quon Zilart automata. I'm guessing that the ruins(more like abandoned city) belong to some sort of dimensional jumping supercivilization or somesuch. "Dimensional Tethers"?

Alzadaal architecture is symmetrical with lots of floors too, with functioning (far more advanced than dolls/pots/observers) automated security. Were they just Zilart?

**Tarage** · 2014-02-23 20:43

Clearly it's Abyssea Zilart.

**Karbuncle** · 2014-02-23 21:09

Originally Posted by Prothescar

Problem is absolutely none of the architecture, machines, or anything besides the glowy floors say "Zilart". None of it matches up. The geometry is square and sharp, whereas Zilart structures are always round, fluid, curvy. It's dark, the colors and atmosphere do not match those used in any other Zilart construct. The weapons/security units are nothing akin to Midartian/Quon Zilart automata. I'm guessing that the ruins(more like abandoned city) belong to some sort of dimensional jumping supercivilization or somesuch. "Dimensional Tethers"?

Alzadaal architecture is symmetrical with lots of floors too, with functioning (far more advanced than dolls/pots/observers) automated security. Were they just Zilart?

I don't know any Automated security in Alzadaal... the entire area is filled with Qiqirn and otherwise empty lol. It itself is a conduit for a giant avatar and has no glowy MGS2 floors.

That said, Zilart structures aren't always fluid and round, If i recall correctly the Garden of Ru'Hmet is rather symmetrical and Rigidly squared in most areas, same for The Grand Palace Hu'Xzoi. While some zilart structures clearly resemble eachother, like the Crags, Sky, and Delkfutt, there is the possibility that these structures have Zilart influence, I mean if at some point the Zilart branched off and traveled to Adoulin, its logical and reasonable to assume that they may have developed different architectural designs and used different metals, like perhaps the metals available to them.

however, on the counter argument, the place is swarming with Fomor and undead, and the prescense of humanoid undead (fomor) lean me away from Zilart if only because the Zilart were all sucked into paradise (if i recall? they gone is all i know), so theres no reason there should be undead humanoids there if they were zilart, they would be gone. They could have been slaves or banished people who found refuge (and only death) in the ruins... Theres options, but theres some clear Zilart influences, which admittidely could be nothing but lazy design from the devs in reusing the Zilart floors.

But its still possible this could just be a rogue Zilart or seperated Zilart who diverged from their brethren long ago, could also be an advanced civilization that just had similar technologies to Zilart, and died out or was sucked into hell, which is also very likely

**Priran** · 2014-02-23 21:19

Originally Posted by Prothescar

Problem is absolutely none of the architecture, machines, or anything besides the glowy floors say "Zilart". None of it matches up. The geometry is square and sharp, whereas Zilart structures are always round, fluid, curvy. It's dark, the colors and atmosphere do not match those used in any other Zilart construct. The weapons/security units are nothing akin to Midartian/Quon Zilart automata. I'm guessing that the ruins(more like abandoned city) belong to some sort of dimensional jumping supercivilization or somesuch. "Dimensional Tethers"?

Alzadaal architecture is symmetrical with lots of floors too, with functioning (far more advanced than dolls/pots/observers) automated security. Were they just Zilart?

Alzadaal was clearly a giant automaton from the moment you set foot inside, with oily-looking windows and the pillars that looked like machinery. It was also clearly not zilart on account of its intricate decorative metalwork. One thing that zilart and kuluu buildings have in common is that they generally made entirely out of one building material. Ra'kaznar may not be cermet but it is wholly Ra'kaznar ore, whatever that is.

If it isn't Zilart (or Kuluu) then they are deliberately trying to make you think it is.

**Prothescar** · 2014-02-24 00:03

Originally Posted by Karbuncle

I don't know any Automated security in Alzadaal... the entire area is filled with Qiqirn and otherwise empty lol. It itself is a conduit for a giant avatar and has no glowy MGS2 floors.

Gears, Chariots, Ramparts, Acroliths. Nyzul Isle and Salvage both take place in Alzadaal structures.

That said, Zilart structures aren't always fluid and round, If i recall correctly the Garden of Ru'Hmet is rather symmetrical and Rigidly squared in most areas, same for The Grand Palace Hu'Xzoi.

They all have rounded edges, and feature curvature in the geometry. Ra'Kaznar is almost entirely comprised of sharp squares.

While some zilart structures clearly resemble eachother, like the Crags, Sky, and Delkfutt, there is the possibility that these structures have Zilart influence, I mean if at some point the Zilart branched off and traveled to Adoulin, its logical and reasonable to assume that they may have developed different architectural designs and used different metals, like perhaps the metals available to them.

Seems unlikely. Why did they? Why aren't there signs of them in Aradjiah? You'd think they'd have explored more than part of a single continent other than Quon and Midartia if they were seafaring explorers.

Alzadaal was clearly a giant automaton from the moment you set foot inside, with oily-looking windows and the pillars that looked like machinery. It was also clearly not zilart on account of its intricate decorative metalwork.

They're not just oily windows. They're magically sealed barriers to protect against the pressures of deep sea depths. It's explained by Ghatsad in the ToAU missions. That said, if distinct visual differences between the metalwork of Alzadaal Undersea Ruins and the drab, almost entirely uniform cermet structures of the Zilart is an indicator of something clearly not being zilart, then I'd say a completely different architectural style, lighting arrangement, power system, and set of defensive structures is just as much of a clear indicator.

One thing that zilart and kuluu buildings have in common is that they generally made entirely out of one building material. Ra'kaznar may not be cermet but it is wholly Ra'kaznar ore, whatever that is.

That's really not all, though. They're all similar aside from their building material. They use dozens extremely small rooms closed off by portals or doors in every structure; large rooms are often broken up by platforms and ramps. Halls are often short affairs, longer ones containing several small branching rooms, not the labyrinthine hallways with occasional rooms between of Ra'Kaznar. Hell, even the elevator doesn't match any Zilartian elevator that we've ever seen.

Spoiler: show

Can look at Delkfutt's Tower and sky maps too, but these show most of the architectural differences I'm on about quite clearly. The material used for building isn't all that matters here. They don't mesh whatsoever, and the only things that can be linked at all to Zilart are the floors that sparkle when you walk on them, which could just as easily be attributed to SE reusing assets.

Still don't see how this zone at all "easily" screams Zilart.

**Karbuncle** · 2014-02-24 00:07

You chose to see or you chose not to see. Either way I'm comfortable waiting until its revealed by SE.

**Aumaan_Kujata** · 2014-02-24 00:16

Clearly it's a subset of the Zilart that sold their souls to Odin in exchange for a new building material.

I'm on the fence over Zilart/not-Zilart, but one detail I haven't seen mentioned is that there's five sealed-off small circular rooms around the perimeter, arranged about as evenly as you can in something fundamentally four-sided. They're not all on the same floor, which ruins it somewhat, but it's still a very Zilart-y number. I'll just throw out the guess that there's ebon panels in there, not because I believe it but just so I can look smart if there really are.

**Spira** · 2014-02-24 00:19

from what i see, it definitely doesn't have any Zilartian influence.

The key features of Zilartian architecture are cermet structures with smooth and curved wall faces, and the occasional diamond-shaped indentures in the walls, or lines that run along the walls or floor. Dominant colors are white, cream and some degree of purple. Floor designs are highly symmetrical.
Zilartian structures are dominantly inhabited by arcana - if we take the 'most untainted' location according to Zilartian history (Tu'Lia, since it was sealed off), then you'll see that the whole place is just arcana and elementals. No undead whatsoever. Those only appear in other Zilartian places which other people have been able to explore, like Fei'yin, Delkfutt, Ro'maeve - but even there, you'll see theres a strong presence of Arcana as well (for evil weapons apparently its because they attracted by the energy of the crystal line)

Lumoria is an anomaly so only the architecture would apply, and it is consistent with all the other Zilartian buildings. It does appear slightly more ornate, which might be due to the fact that it's the King's palace.

of the other ancient civilizations, we've been to ruins of the Kuluu, which are always built of brick and feature magical devices. Room shapes appear to vary from squarish to oblong, but generally have less symmetry than Zilartian. Color scheme is gray. Except for the ruins in Sarutabaruta, inhabitants are Tonberry (because they were the Kuluu). Al'zadaal ruins are a lot more ornate, more bling. Symmetrical with little curvature except for outer walls. Inhabited by a unique family of mobs (Archaia).

this Ra'Kaznar doesnt' appear to resemble any existing civilization's style. The existence of things like "dimensional tethers", ironclads and all the undead seem to suggest an advanced civilization, if thats what it was, that also dealt with dark forces or life energy or the underworld. The Ironclads are most intriguing to me because they've only appeared in Voidwatch, Abyssea and I think Legion, and we don't know their origins at all because they've never concretely been tied to any lore.

**Prothescar** · 2014-02-24 00:34

Notice that all of the places that Iron Giants exist are extradimensional. HmmmmmMMMMmmm

That goes for Naraka, too. They're in Ra'Kaznar Skirmish and could only be found in Voidwatch before.

**Spira** · 2014-02-24 00:47

hmm.. i'm thinking of that as a high possibility.
apart from the 'dimensional tethers' thing, theres the deal with Delve Fractures and Skirmishes (or basically, the U zones).
official notes call Delve Fractures "spacial distortions" and "quasi-extradimensional caves". Skirmishes are an "alternate yet similar world to Vana'diel".

i seem to remember something else being mentioned about dimensional stuff in ulbuka but i could be mistaken.

on another random note.. if Ra'Kaznar is the pyramid-shaped mountain thing in the last mission cutscene, i'm guessing that means Inner Ra'Kaznar is deeper down.. and we probably gotta take the elevator in?
hopefully the next time they add areas with missions they start talking about Ra'Kaznar as well.

**Prothescar** · 2014-02-24 00:47

Guessing Hades is involved somehow

**ronin sparthos** · 2014-02-24 01:31

Can someone who's up to date with missions give a recap thus far?

**Sechs** · 2014-03-06 05:11

Originally Posted by Karbuncle

You chose to see or you chose not to see. Either way I'm comfortable waiting until its revealed by SE.

The underground floor with the transparent/sparkling floor clearly reminds of Tu'lia, but while I'd wish for Zilarts to come back (best part of FFXI plot ever, imho) I seriously doubt SE wants to talk about Zilarts again.
Which sucks because there would be so much more to be told, and it makes no sense that there is no Zilart trace out of Qu'on and Mindartia.

Alack, not goin to happen.

**Kincard** · 2014-03-06 18:51

Originally Posted by ronin sparthos

Can someone who's up to date with missions give a recap thus far?

Weird stuff is happening, the forest has a curse and the world tree is in the Danger Zone, people in the gov'ment being dicks to each other over it, weird guy in black with a unique model that's clearly important but hasn't done anything important yet, spend 5 missions figuring out something the player figured out the second it happened, there's a pissed off dragon thing for some reason as the cliffhanger.

**Seha** · 2014-03-06 20:04

I hate how the player character is treated like an imbecile.

"You should study this, I wonder what a good place to gather information about the past might be..." OH MAN I DON'T KNOW BETTER ASK LEVIN "The library." Duh.
And that thing with Arcy's brother pointing at the blade..OH I NEVER IMAGINED THAT <_<

**Priran** · 2014-03-08 01:36

Originally Posted by Seha

I hate how the player character is treated like an imbecile.

"You should study this, I wonder what a good place to gather information about the past might be..." OH MAN I DON'T KNOW BETTER ASK LEVIN "The library." Duh.
And that thing with Arcy's brother pointing at the blade..OH I NEVER IMAGINED THAT <_<

seriously, I don't even get what the point of that whole diversion was, we already knew ortharsyne was important

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