FFXI Plot-holes and unclear issues

[Celebrindor]

This is only a partial answer, but they embody the "cardinal sins" of each race. They aren't Zilart as they are the "perfect"race, if you will. But as they are "perfect" versions of each race, their sin is magnified as well.

[Karbuncle]

This is only a partial answer, but they embody the "cardinal sins" of each race. They aren't Zilart as they are the "perfect"race, if you will. But as they are "perfect" versions of each race, their sin is magnified as well.

Cool, I see, so do we know how they were created or when they came into being? Or possibly their purpose? Its been a long time since RoTZ and I can't readily find a lot of this lore

[Hitou]

Well, according to a CS in CoP:

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Yve'noile: The people of this world have evolved into five unique species, each harboring a distinctive darkness.

Yve'noile: Crystal warriors.
Thou wert created to destroy those evils.

Yve'noile: Yet even thy strength canst not prevail against this darkness.

Yve'noile: Emptiness.
'Tis the ever-present shadow of blessed light.

Yve'noile: If this phenomenon represents complete death, then one could argue its presence was inevitable in a complete world.

Yve'noile: Thus thou split the crystal for thy children's sake...

Yve'noile: Is this not so, Great Goddess Altana...?

It would seem the crystal warriors were created to destroy the "sins" or darkness/emptiness that is in each of the 5 races. Envy, Arrogance, Cowardice, Rage, and Apathy. Doesn't say by whom but the Zi'lart seem to have control over them so it stands to reason they probably made them to remove the emptiness of the 5 races so Promathia could become whole again and die a complete death. Since he told them to via the whisper of souls. At least that's what I can put together from the cryptic dialog in cut-scenes.

[Spira]

the Ark Angels belong to no race. they are entities created from the 5 mother crystals by the zilart. as they are created from the crystal like the 5 races, they embody the same traits and take on a similar appearance as a result. however, they're supposedly a more perfect form of this embodiment, considering they don't have emptiness within them.

[Kincard]

Alright I'm sure this has been discussed at some point since I'm late to the party, couldn't find it searching the thread though.

Spoiler: show

Why is Siren being called a Prime Avatar?

[Kyreth]

Alright I'm sure this has been discussed at some point since I'm late to the party, couldn't find it searching the thread though.

Spoiler: show

Why is Siren being called a Prime Avatar?

Because the original of an avatar is the Prime one. The same applies with all the others.

[Kincard]

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I was more wondering about its status as an avatar. It's been a while since I played related scenarios but as I recall, it's pretty much set in stone that there are only 8 Celestials (one for each element, and they're found in the Protocrystals), and 5 Terrestrials (created to protect the 5 Mothercrystals).

As I recall they never used the word Avatar to refer to Cait Sith, Atomos, or Hades, because strictly speaking that's not what they are. For example, Cait Sith doesn't have Prime attached to the end of its name when you go fight it.

Siren already appeared in the present before Selh'teus finished his plan, so it's not something created from that- though I'd assume anything created from that would probably be Phoenix-related since it's Selh'teus.

[Yuella]

It's probably a retcon and there are more avatars.

[Aumaan_Kujata]

Spoiler: show

The "Prime Avatar" thing bothered me substantially too, especially because they made a point in one CS to say something along the lines of "Siren is like Alexander, a Prime Avatar". Soooo... Celestial? But no, those are all taken. The only two options I can see are the less likely: there's a major lore reveal about to happen that will reshuffle the demigod hierarchy and make it all work, or the (much) more likely: they're trying to handwave Siren in and she's really just an unused asset from some dropped Seekers of Adoulin plan.

But Atomos already sort of ruined the neatness of their system, and an extra generic Avatar is nothing compared to an extra Mothercrystal, as far as messing the core lore up goes.

[Toth]

Is anyone else dismayed to see that our main character's fates

Spoiler: show

are so bad? In the original universe, we are Spitewardens. In Abyssea, we are killed by Promethia. And now, in our immediate future, we become a slave to the Emptiness. C'mon Altana, get in there and help us!

[Karbuncle]

Spoiler: show

Promethia.

How dare you.

Also yes, I am a bit dismayed that apparently we suck pretty hard in every timeline including our own.

[Draylo]

It kinda doesn't make sense as to the threats of any of these with what Altana does in WOTG, unless she lost the power to do that.

[Sechs]

I think in the last part of the story they're finally goin to make us meet Altana.
Wonder if she will be just a voice, or something without a clear antropomorphic shape, or if she will use a physical shape/avatar to talk with us.

Siren is the prime avatar of "nature". Altough nature is not an element, but it kinda got brought in from GEOs, who manage the 6 elements and the flow of energies of "nature".
They also share the "bell" thing. It's a symbol of Geomancy and it's somehow related to Siren as well, altough we don't really know how.

Who's the 5th Terrestrial avatar btw? Carbuncle, Phoenix, Diabolos, Bahamut and? I'm missing one? Or was Fenrir a Terrestrial as well?
Caith Sith and Atomos get clearly addressed as "avatars" by the RoV storyline btw.

[Damane]

I think in the last part of the story they're finally goin to make us meet Altana.
Wonder if she will be just a voice, or something without a clear antropomorphic shape, or if she will use a physical shape/avatar to talk with us.

Siren is the prime avatar of "nature". Altough nature is not an element, but it kinda got brought in from GEOs, who manage the 6 elements and the flow of energies of "nature".
They also share the "bell" thing. It's a symbol of Geomancy and it's somehow related to Siren as well, altough we don't really know how.

Who's the 5th Terrestrial avatar btw? Carbuncle, Phoenix, Diabolos, Bahamut and? I'm missing one? Or was Fenrir a Terrestrial as well?
Caith Sith and Atomos get clearly addressed as "avatars" by the RoV storyline btw.

Fenrir is the last terrestrial avatar yeah.
And yes Caith sith and the others are refered to as avatars too, especially Caith Sith is refered to as the "newest born" Avatar.
"Prime Avatar" just describes that the Avatar is in its truest form apearing to you, not with a fraction of their power. This is why the others like Shiva etc. never were called "Prime" when you encountered/battled them, they are still in their slumber and never apeared in full form before you but only with a fraction of their power.

[Suteru]

Are August and Morimar alive for any other reason than "they're badasses"?

[Sechs]

Morimar's "immortality" got never explained. Especially because all the other members of August's army died.
August supposedly is still alive because he phased into Tartarus were time flows differently and blah blah time-shit.
Teodor's "immortality" got explained at him being the 7th Naakual, altough that's a pretty poor explanation as well because they never mention in detail how he became one (other than the Blahblahblah "I believed in Hades and his ideals and decided to help him in Tartarus" shit) or how how he mantains some power even after losing his position as one of the Xol Triumvirates.
Why do even the Xols placed their trust in Hades at all? We never get an insight on their story or motivations. The only one talking is Balamor, and he seems to be more powerful than his position as a Hades' subject would hint.
Why and how did he take Teodor's position etc?

[Damane]

Morimar's "immortality" got never explained. Especially because all the other members of August's army died.
August supposedly is still alive because he phased into Tartarus were time flows differently and blah blah time-shit.
Teodor's "immortality" got explained at him being the 7th Naakual, altough that's a pretty poor explanation as well because they never mention in detail how he became one (other than the Blahblahblah "I believed in Hades and his ideals and decided to help him in Tartarus" shit) or how how he mantains some power even after losing his position as one of the Xol Triumvirates.
Why do even the Xols placed their trust in Hades at all? We never get an insight on their story or motivations. The only one talking is Balamor, and he seems to be more powerful than his position as a Hades' subject would hint.
Why and how did he take Teodor's position etc?

As far as morimar's "immortality", his Lifepower/essence is linked to the Golden Tigers Life/Family line. As long as the Golden tiger exists and is alive Morimar is alive too.
Teodor got his immortality/powers from Tartarus the same way Hades did. Please remember the Naakuals are protectors of adoulin that serve August NOT Hades. Teodor got the 7th Naakual once he betrayed Hades and helped August and swore allegiance to August.The Naakuals are the protectors of the entrances to the serpent Labyrinth so noone sets Hades free by accident. At that point he lost his position as the Deathborne Xol in the Triumvirate due to his betrayal, afterwards at some point Balamor took his place, prolly by meeting Hades in the entraped Tartarus/Chamber.
Balamor seems to be able to shift between dimensions easy and has a greater agenda then simply helping hades.

[Sechs]

Yeah but a lot of those explanations are very poor. I mean, better than not getting anything at all don't get me wrong, but I still wish we could've delved more in details into these things.
Especially now that we learned that Tartarus is nothing other than one of the "alternate Vana'diel" dimensions.

Not sure I really like this plot device, but then again things got ruined for me by WotG when they said that our (the players') dimension wasn't the original one but an alternative one created by Caith Sith/Atomos because the god-bitch (Altana) was sad etc.

[urat]

Prime avatar just means their physical form.

The Prime avatars in the avatar fights are the ones sleeping in the crystal (Im pretty sure), whereas the one you fight is just an extension of them, a sliver of their power.

The giant maw in the void, floating above in the sky, thats Prime Atomos. The cait sith you interact with is however I think the Prime Form for most of the plot, but he is very weak since normal mortals can just like, grab him and cart him around, and Lilisette is pretty abusive to Cait so... yeah.

So Siren that we meet is in her Prime form, not an extension of her. Thats a big deal, because it means we beat up a prime avatar, not just some sliver of their power.

[Sechs]

I still think Siren was "re-purposed" as part of the RoV storyline but was originally planned as part of the SoA story and then was scrapped when they had to close things up and cut some things.