1UP Preview of WotG

[Solarus]

@Kamsin -

That's my point, any job other than Pld or Nin (even Pld now most of the time) relies on /nin to tank. War does, Mnk does, Rdm does. Sam is the only other job that has really had any additions that allows it to tank without /nin.

I can't see them adding any sort of JA/Trait that affects something that someone only gains from their SJ.

Any job can tank somewhat with /nin, dependant on hate gaining abilities. If they are planning to make a job into a tank, I'd assume they'd be doing so by altering a job so it -can- tank independent of SJ choice (of course some would be preferred, but at a high level, Pld is really the only job that does not -require- /nin to tank HNMs)

@Septimus -

Perhaps so, but I really don't think tanking is the way they'll go with Red Mage. There are obviously going to be overlaps with the new jobs, just because another job can do something as well doesn't make it useless. I think Rdm is well overdue some sort of changes (Enfeebling Seal?) but I can't see them changing a job that has always been a mage into a tank.

[Anakron]

I'm curious as to how Haste Samba will work. If the status is on the mob, then does it mean that every melee hit will reduce your next hit's delay by a certain amount? That seems like an unnecessarily-complicated way to implement such a basic effect. Will it be the client or server that keeps track of how much delay to deduct after every hit? Or maybe you'd get a haste effect that'll last for x seconds/minutes every time you hit something with Haste Daze?

Also wonder if the Flourishes have recast timers...a stun every 10 TP (plus dancing/casting time) could be pretty potent, but the accuracy would probably be horrible.

EDIT: Or do they mean "engage" as in simply having the auto-attack on? Meaning mages could also get the haste effect by simply taking out their staves?

[levish]

4 shadow Ni when WARs sub NIN
More haste available to WAR only
AoEs only remove 1 shadow for WAR main
Cumulative hate JA

What about 1-> 73?

[Solarus]

Yeah, the Dancer "debuffs" seem a bit odd... They're basically debuffs which serve exactly the same purpose as a normal buff or cure.

I don't really understand the Haste one either... Is it any different to just casting a haste effect on party members? Does it actually have any effect on the mob itself?

[Khamsin]

WAR is a likely choice too. Basically falls into the same category as MNK. It -can- tank, but face tanking just isn't really acceptable when blink tanking is so efficient. They already have Defender but that doesn't do a lot on HNM. It'd have to be some sort of physical damage -50% or something crazy, or perhaps a large parry bonus.

I can't see them making RDM more of a tank than it is already. It was never intended to be, it hasn't been anything other than a mage in FF history, and as it is, it's tanking methods are not there by design. Spamming random resisted spells is not how SE envisioned a tank working, I'm pretty sure. Honestly, they could nerf it in one step if they just prevented resisted spells from gaining hate (would also nerf NIN/DRK along the way though), and I wouldn't be suprised to see such a change coming.

So yeah... basically, tanks just aren't acceptable unless they can get extremely high damage mitigation, and it's unlikely that anything is going to be added to better or equal shadows, I would think.

A WAR tanks by blink tanking, not face tanking. They don't need damage mitigation. Possible upgrades to the tanking ability of WARs might be:

4 shadow Ni when WARs sub NIN
More haste available to WAR only
AoEs only remove 1 shadow for WAR main
Cumulative hate JA

The idea that a mainjob trait to pigeonhole a subjob magic seem nothing short of stupid.

Especially when not even the mainjob NIN get 1 shadow only on AoE trait.

They're just ideas to enhance a WAR's primary method of tanking, despite whether it seems unfair to NIN or not.

Whatever they do to enhance one job's tanking ability, it'll mostly likely make the most difference at 75. It probably won't make as much of a difference in the mid-levels, but by 75, we'll have another solid tank option in addition to NIN and PLD... that is, if they do it right and don't screw it up.

[Anakron]

Yeah, the Dancer "debuffs" seem a bit odd... They're basically debuffs which serve exactly the same purpose as a normal buff or cure.

I don't really understand the Haste one either... Is it any different to just casting a haste effect on party members? Does it actually have any effect on the mob itself?

Well, placing the effect on the mob is definitely more desirable, since it would work for the entire alliance (and potentially those outside as well) so it's much cheaper in terms of upkeep. But I can't see it being more than, say, 5% haste since it's only 35TP and would apply to the entire alliance, unless the effects last for only 20-30 seconds.

[Rowe]

No way would you ever make an ability gained from a sub-job superior to the ability wielded by the Main job that possess it.

IF you boost MNKs DEF to about 75-80% of what a PLD has then MNK could face tank in a exp party, throw in a Dancer(or 2) to give some MP free healing and you are all set go and just forget about the blink tanking only mindset. With MP free healing and aoe Aspir I see a lot of party flexibility for sub 40 parties.

I see a lot of EXP parties

MNK/WAR, 2xDAN/NIN, RDM/BLM, THF/NIN, SAM/WAR-DRG/WAR-DRK/WAR-RNG/WAR out EXP'ing in the near future basically new semi tank job 2x dancers an enfeebler, and some melees to fill it out.

[Hawkhellfire]

I could have sworn I read that WAR wouldn't be the one because most ppl already lvled war to 37 as a sub and alot have taken it to 75 already.

My guess is either MNK or SAM since they have access to alot of nice tanking gear (like Arhats), each have an ability to keep them alive (Seigan/Third Eye and Counterstance) with MNK having high hp, high guarding, and counter and SAM having high parrying. Not to mention both have the 3rd highest skill of evassion at 256 (but 4th overall because Pup has higher eva with it's evassion bonus traits).

[Zilong]

WAR is a likely choice too. Basically falls into the same category as MNK. It -can- tank, but face tanking just isn't really acceptable when blink tanking is so efficient. They already have Defender but that doesn't do a lot on HNM. It'd have to be some sort of physical damage -50% or something crazy, or perhaps a large parry bonus.

I can't see them making RDM more of a tank than it is already. It was never intended to be, it hasn't been anything other than a mage in FF history, and as it is, it's tanking methods are not there by design. Spamming random resisted spells is not how SE envisioned a tank working, I'm pretty sure. Honestly, they could nerf it in one step if they just prevented resisted spells from gaining hate (would also nerf NIN/DRK along the way though), and I wouldn't be suprised to see such a change coming.

So yeah... basically, tanks just aren't acceptable unless they can get extremely high damage mitigation, and it's unlikely that anything is going to be added to better or equal shadows, I would think.

A WAR tanks by blink tanking, not face tanking. They don't need damage mitigation. Possible upgrades to the tanking ability of WARs might be:

4 shadow Ni when WARs sub NIN
More haste available to WAR only
AoEs only remove 1 shadow for WAR main
Cumulative hate JA

The idea that a mainjob trait to pigeonhole a subjob magic seem nothing short of stupid.

Especially when not even the mainjob NIN get 1 shadow only on AoE trait.

They're just ideas to enhance a WAR's primary method of tanking, despite whether it seems unfair to NIN or not.

Whatever they do to enhance one job's tanking ability, it'll mostly likely make the most difference at 75. It probably won't make as much of a difference in the mid-levels, but by 75, we'll have another solid tank option in addition to NIN and PLD... that is, if they do it right and don't screw it up.

It's not that it's unfair to NIN, it's just idiotic to make a trait that doesn't even match the job's theme and making it better than the original job version.

That's like saying WAR/SAM should get 150% TP meditate, I don't know why, but they should, doesn't matter if it seem unfair to SAM.

[Rowe]

They're just ideas to enhance a WAR's primary method of tanking, despite whether it seems unfair to NIN or not.

Whatever they do to enhance one job's tanking ability, it'll mostly likely make the most difference at 75. It probably won't make as much of a difference in the mid-levels, but by 75, we'll have another solid tank option in addition to NIN and PLD... that is, if they do it right and don't screw it up.

To me it seems to be the exact opposite, the changes they make are to ease low and mid level EXP parties needing a tank, not lvl 75/ end game tanking. The changes they make will have the least impact on lvl 75 jobs and much more impact on the low and mid levels.

[Khamsin]

Well, whichever job it is, I doubt they will be enhanced via defense or direct damage reduction. If a PLD can't even facetank efficiently most of the time, neither will whatever job they enhance. Go ahead and give MNK 999 Defense, and see what good it does.

[mikazuki]

my guess is Blu will have certain defensive spell mp cost/cast/recast timers altered and some spells given more enmity.
then we can all discuss blu/nin or blu/war for exp?!?!

[Solarus]

I could have sworn I read that WAR wouldn't be the one because most ppl already lvled war to 37 as a sub and alot have taken it to 75 already.

That was just 1UP's speculation, I doubt they don't know any better than the rest of us what job it is. I don't really get their logic there. How does the fact that people have levelled a job already make it more or less viable as a tank?

[Solarus]

my guess is Blu will have certain defensive spell mp cost/cast/recast timers altered and some spells given more enmity.
then we can all discuss blu/nin or blu/war for exp?!?!

Blu/Thf.

But seriously, BLU could also be a very viable option. They're so versatile as is, and do work quite well already as a tank at various levels, so it wouldn't take many changes to make BLU a top-level tank.

(But seriously, go go Blu/Thf)

[Hawkhellfire]

Eh, I knew I read it somewhere lol. Regardless, I stand by MNK or SAM for the reasons I gave.

[rath]

Low lvl phlanx blue magic. That and cocoon should do it.

[Rowe]

Well, whichever job it is, I doubt they will be enhanced via defense or direct damage reduction. If a PLD can't even facetank efficiently most of the time, neither will whatever job they enhance. Go ahead and give MNK 999 Defense, and see what good it does.

I took PLD to 75 and I think I did it quite well, are you telling me there are no People out there leveling PLD? When did it become impossible for people to level PLD? The modification of a job into a semi-tank job is to give EXP PARTIES a viable 3rd option it has noting to do with end game, HNM.

[Anakron]

I could have sworn I read that WAR wouldn't be the one because most ppl already lvled war to 37 as a sub and alot have taken it to 75 already.

That was just 1UP's speculation, I doubt they don't know any better than the rest of us what job it is. I don't really get their logic there. How does the fact that people have levelled a job already make it more or less viable as a tank?

Supposedly, one of the reasons why the developers made Dancer a healer-type was that most people had WHM and/or RDM lvled from 1-37 for subjobs, making low-level healers very hard to find. If you extend that logic to people lvling WAR and/or NIN to 37, then it makes sense that they want the new tank to not be a currently-popular subjob so that after the expansion, whoever's lvling the new tank job can fill in low-level tanking spots.

[blister1]

Dancer sounds ridiculous.

* Spectral Jig: (TP cost, 0) Allows you to evade detection by enemies that detect by either sight or sound. Essentially this casts both Sneak and Invisible on yourself, at zero MP or TP cost. Unlikely to be effective in avoiding detection by mobs with True Sight, however.
* Chocobo Jig: (TP cost, 0) Increases the Dancer's movement speed (as in running, not attacking). When questioned about the actual speed increase, Mitsutoshi Gondai informed us that Chocobo Jig has the same speed effect (on the player alone) as Chocobo Mazurka, and not Raptor Mazurka as we originally suspected.

Win

[Lucavi]

Who knows -- we might finally see a change in the calculation with vit under a near-permanent JA like seigan/hasso. I could easily see mnk getting some sort of "Iron Skin" JA that modifies their def or vit rating when stacked against the str rating of the enemy. This would naturally have a rather large change in xp/merit parties, as the levels between players and mobs aren't that far apart, but would do nothing for HNM, which fits in line with what they said. Its important to remember that they specifically said that the new tanking modifications wouldn't be very useful for HNM, and we all know that maxing defense or vitality won't do shit against a level 90 mob.

Besides, its not like anyone really wants changes to HNM tanking -- everyone's so smitten over utsu that even if blood-tanking was introduced as a viable way of tanking, you'd still see 95% of the tanks continue to cradle utsu out of a fear of getting hit at all. Under the current system, any damage taken is worse than no damage taken, so the only other way to create a "tanking" role would be to give some kind of large benefit to getting hit. Perhaps giving mnk a JA that quantifies the amount of TP they gain per hit (perhaps to the rate of what a mob gains per hit), while simultaneously lowering damage by a flat rate -- maybe 10-15%. There's no problem getting slammed by the mob if it isn't hurting very much, and especially if they're giving you so much TP that you can just keep holding hate by beating the hell out of them in return.