Job Adjustments

[Veli]

Go exp with a rng and some other dds.. Parse it and then add the cost of the rng amo and get back to me..

Ok, so let's say RNG is the changed into the most powerful DD ever, i mean, not talking 2004, but 2008 the year of the Gil Thrower, I mean Ranger.

So RNGs are the best there is, the more damaging ones, you can even use Stone Arrows and will beat the best BB MNK, the best Ridill WAR, the best SAM, the best DRK, etc.

So why would we invite anything else to merits? (That question is being made by a mage job, not smn or blm tho)

And your HNMLS leader tells everyone in the shell, and DD nnon-RNG, or without a mage job, go level RNG because that is all we are going to use, since RNG > God+AV together.




Now I ask you, is that the balance you are talking about? I don't think so and I will agree with this:

Well, I think your opinion that Rangers should be stronger than everyone is the stupidest idea of balance I've ever read.

and this..

[quote:1dupp6aa]...lawl?

You want balance? You are getting balance:

*SAM nerf.
*2h fix (nerf).
*Velocity Shot.


So there you go, balance, added up to THF ... oh shi.. wait [/quote:1dupp6aa]

I'm saying the best equipped RNG should do at least 2% more damage than the best equipped war.. You guys are making this into some 2004 stuff when it's not. I dont even play RNG... I just feel sorry for the people who had to retire it..

[arshesney]

Go exp with a rng and some other dds.. Parse it and then add the cost of the rng amo and get back to me..

Ok, so let's say RNG is the changed into the most powerful DD ever, i mean, not talking 2004, but 2008 the year of the Gil Thrower, I mean Ranger.

So RNGs are the best there is, the more damaging ones, you can even use Stone Arrows and will beat the best BB MNK, the best Ridill WAR, the best SAM, the best DRK, etc.

So why would we invite anything else to merits? (That question is being made by a mage job, not smn or blm tho)

And your HNMLS leader tells everyone in the shell, and DD nnon-RNG, or without a mage job, go level RNG because that is all we are going to use, since RNG > God+AV together.




Now I ask you, is that the balance you are talking about? I don't think so and I will agree with this:

Well, I think your opinion that Rangers should be stronger than everyone is the stupidest idea of balance I've ever read.

and this..

[quote:2m6xw15e]...lawl?

You want balance? You are getting balance:

*SAM nerf.
*2h fix (nerf).
*Velocity Shot.


So there you go, balance, added up to THF ... oh shi.. wait

I'm saying the best equipped RNG should do at least 2% more damage than the best equipped war.. You guys are making this into some 2004 stuff when it's not. I dont even play RNG... I just feel sorry for the people who had to retire it..[/quote:2m6xw15e]

I'm not getting it... Why RNG?

[Aymee]

Go exp with a rng and some other dds.. Parse it and then add the cost of the rng amo and get back to me..I'm just saying RNG does good damage but they should do a lil more damage.

Ok. So tell me. How much dmg can you get for 1gil? Gogo! Figure it out, since you seem to have the answer already. Add the cost of ammo to what figure? ...Food cost? Good food or bad food? Weapon cost? Good ammo or bad ammo? ...See, there is no way to answer this and I have no idea why I'm wasting my time trying to point out that you have zero concept of balance and fairness.
How the hell do you know what the extra dmg is, if any, compared to the price of your ammo, with what food, how good/bad the rest of the PT was, anyway? You'd need to be in a 500-level statistics course to dig up some kind of equation that came close to guesstimating anything even close to accurate like 1gil = ?dmg. I don't think there's any actual way to measure it.

You have no right whatsoever to tell me or anyone else to go exp with a rng or any other dd. Do you think we haven't? You don't have any DD jobs or RNG leveled, so the hell do you know? And wtf, you're 75NIN, obviously you know that being a halfway decent NIN gets semi-costly in tools before longer chaining PTs start in the mid-60s, and good NINs will keep using anyway.

...So since you're 75NIN and had to buy tools, you should totally be the best tank ever, right? AND the best DD, yes? Answer those questions, please. Since you're spending more gil than everyone else in the PT 'balanced' means best. Perhaps were you the lazy type of NIN that had a ninjutsu skill of 12 at lvl75 because you cast nothing but utsusemi? If so, you make me cry. Probably never used food, either.

This kind of short-sidedness should instantly disqualify you from ever talking about any kind of balance or any kind of gil vs output discussion. Actually, it should disqualify you from posting here in general. Go back to alla. The upshot of this is that you're lazy. You can, in actuality, play RNG completely for free. ...If you synth your own ammo. What? Materials too much? You can farm those from scratch, too. So technically, RNG = 0gil if you aren't lazy.
Actually. ALL jobs = 0gil if you want to get down to it, besides mage scrolls/rolls you're forced to buy from npc. That said, gil:dmg ratio is already completely balanced. You fail.

So there you go, balance, added up to THF ... oh shi.. wait

Oh yea, we need to fix THF still. Crap. I know! Have all THFs use inefficient guns with the most expensive ammo imaginable, and do nothing but spam that on mobs so they spend the most gil. Then SE will balance them to the best DD!

[Veli]

Go exp with a rng and some other dds.. Parse it and then add the cost of the rng amo and get back to me..I'm just saying RNG does good damage but they should do a lil more damage.

Ok. So tell me. How much dmg can you get for 1gil? Gogo! Figure it out, since you seem to have the answer already. Add the cost of ammo to what figure? ...Food cost? Good food or bad food? Weapon cost? Good ammo or bad ammo? ...See, there is no way to answer this and I have no idea why I'm wasting my time trying to point out that you have zero concept of balance and fairness.
How the hell do you know what the extra dmg is, if any, compared to the price of your ammo, with what food, how good/bad the rest of the PT was, anyway? You'd need to be in a 500-level statistics course to dig up some kind of equation that came close to guesstimating anything even close to accurate like 1gil = ?dmg. I don't think there's any actual way to measure it.

You have no right whatsoever to tell me or anyone else to go exp with a rng or any other dd. Do you think we haven't? You don't have any DD jobs or RNG leveled, so the hell do you know? And wtf, you're 75NIN, obviously you know that being a halfway decent NIN gets semi-costly in tools before longer chaining PTs start in the mid-60s, and good NINs will keep using anyway.

...So since you're 75NIN and had to buy tools, you should totally be the best tank ever, right? AND the best DD, yes? Answer those questions, please. Since you're spending more gil than everyone else in the PT 'balanced' means best. Perhaps were you the lazy type of NIN that had a ninjutsu skill of 12 at lvl75 because you cast nothing but utsusemi? If so, you make me cry. Probably never used food, either.

This kind of short-sidedness should instantly disqualify you from ever talking about any kind of balance or any kind of gil vs output discussion. Actually, it should disqualify you from posting here in general. Go back to alla. The upshot of this is that you're lazy. You can, in actuality, play RNG completely for free. ...If you synth your own ammo. What? Materials too much? You can farm those from scratch, too. So technically, RNG = 0gil if you aren't lazy.
Actually. ALL jobs = 0gil if you want to get down to it, besides mage scrolls/rolls you're forced to buy from npc. That said, gil:dmg ratio is already completely balanced. You fail.

So there you go, balance, added up to THF ... oh shi.. wait

Oh yea, we need to fix THF still. Crap. I know! Have all THFs use inefficient guns with the most expensive ammo imaginable, and do nothing but spam that on mobs so they spend the most gil. Then SE will balance them to the best DD!

LOL@you comparing RNG to NIN...In exp the cost of tools makes you alot better than a PLD and thats just my opinion.. I wish we could say the same for RNG... Don't talk to me about gil my friend... I'm the last person on this board to talk about gil .. I do have 75 RNG...I forgot all about it..OK end of this RNG stuff.. I wanna see what they do to RDM..

[Aymee]

LOL@you comparing RNG to NIN...In exp the cost of tools makes you alot better than a PLD and thats just my opinion.. I wish we could say the same for RNG... Don't talk to me about gil my friend... I'm the last person on this board to talk about gil .. I do have 75 RNG...I forgot all about it..

...You just conveniently forgot to add it to your sig. Uhhuh. If you're the last person to talk about gil, why the hell are you complaining that you don't (but should) get extra dmg out of you RNG gil? Shouldn't it not matter since you have gil?

Actually, that explains a lot, if you have lvled RNG. You're just horrifically bitter that you can't automatically hurt everything more than everyone else and you have to put some effort into it. Ha. You know, instead of being bitter that you were nerfed, you could do one of the 2 things everyone does afterwards: 1) get over it, and/or 2) learn how to play the job well so you can look just as good nerfed as you did before. God forbid you put in some effort. And you never addressed the fact that you can craft all your ammo from scratch if you desire--you're just lazy and don't like doing any actual work besides standing and pressing ctrl+d repeatedly. I'm sure you must miss the days of the "IGE Holiday Gil Sale" days that funded your previous efforts. What, does it not count toward your theory if you can make your ammo for 0gil instead of buying off AH? I suppose time = money, too... but by that logic melee can waste an eternity skilling weapons and I could easily turn that back around and say it's costing us gil, too. Just give up, please. Collective opinion seems very obvious.

To be bitter over a nerf 3 years ago... good god. If you were truly a skilled RNG back then, you know damn well what was wrong and why it needed a change... and as a result should have known have to adjust to what changed. No it wasn't the same, but it didn't kill the job completely for all but the laziest of lazy people (though I suppose that's 90%+ of players). Actually, some people seem to sadistically love being nerfed. Career lawlDRGs pretty much started to get the term after the penta nerf 3.5 years ago. As a result, they're essentially unstoppable since all their limiters have been undone.

For the record I'm not saying NIN = RNG for gil spent, it was just my expressing that your concept of gil spent should = better performance as 'balance' is brainlessly stupid. Can't you just be happy enough you're getting SOMETHING back as RNG and drop the emo bitter attitude now? I guess not. Leave the self-hatred for the wrist slashers (me) and [Galka] DRKs.

[shat]

some people aren't worth responding to. =[

[docvicious]

(Still waiting on the war update/nerf that was said would be done when ToAU was announced or during one of the patches)

I wouldn't be surprised if Half of these things don't happen.

[Delekii]

COR is more expensive to play as a shooting job than RNG is. By your logic, Veli, COR who spam steel bullets should outparse RNG who spam silver bullets, right? At the moment, steel bullets are twice as expensive as silver bullets.

Currently the mechanically quickest way to TP on cor is peacemaker+steel bullets (I was suprised when I was shown the math too, but it is slightly faster than a joyeuse with marches/haste/reasonable haste gear). So, if cost were directly related to performance, then COR would be the best DD in the game, right?

When you choose to play RNG, you accept the fact that it costs a lot of money. For the purposes of balance, RNG shouldn't be unilaterally better than the next best thing just because they cost more - they have their niches to fill, as do other DD.

[Khamsin]

(Still waiting on the war update/nerf that was said would be done when ToAU was announced or during one of the patches)

I wouldn't be surprised if Half of these things don't happen.

Sadly, that's probably true. Things like new avatars, WHM sleep spell, new teleports, etc. are too good to be true, so I wouldn't get my hopes up.

[docvicious]

Real cor's spam Iron bullets and only switch to Steel for WS and Barrage

[Zarath]

Real cor's spam Iron bullets and only switch to Steel for WS and Barrage

Either way is stupid expensive vs the alternative, joytoy haste set up

[epigram]

I spend way more on bst than I do on cor. 20k-50k/hr on pets, then add in pet food to save a 10k pet from dying before time is up, then toss in virtue stones that I can't even farm easily on this job.

Obviously for all the work and gil that I put into this job my guttler should fire fucking lazers.

[Reality]

Go exp with a rng and some other dds.. Parse it and then add the cost of the rng amo and get back to me..

Ok, so let's say RNG is the changed into the most powerful DD ever, i mean, not talking 2004, but 2008 the year of the Gil Thrower, I mean Ranger.

So RNGs are the best there is, the more damaging ones, you can even use Stone Arrows and will beat the best BB MNK, the best Ridill WAR, the best SAM, the best DRK, etc.

So why would we invite anything else to merits? (That question is being made by a mage job, not smn or blm tho)

And your HNMLS leader tells everyone in the shell, and DD nnon-RNG, or without a mage job, go level RNG because that is all we are going to use, since RNG > God+AV together.




Now I ask you, is that the balance you are talking about? I don't think so and I will agree with this:

Well, I think your opinion that Rangers should be stronger than everyone is the stupidest idea of balance I've ever read.

and this..

[quote:3cgjt70o]...lawl?

You want balance? You are getting balance:

*SAM nerf.
*2h fix (nerf).
*Velocity Shot.


So there you go, balance, added up to THF ... oh shi.. wait [/quote:3cgjt70o]

there is some merit behind the fact that rangers spend gil to do their damage, so their damage should be a bit higher than the other DD jobs. rangers don't have any other option to do damage other than to use ammunition. you're saying the game is balanced now because all DD's are more/less the same sans THF. I'd say the game isn't balanced because ranger HAS to spend gil on ammunition to do any respectable amount of damage.

You brought up the point "Why would we level any other DD's if RNG would be the top dog?" I guess you don't see the flipside to that coin

Why level RNG when you can do the same amount of damage output on the other melee jobs for free?

They should've just made the way RNG's acquire ammo different than crafting IMO, or significantly cheapen the materials used to make it. that way, they can leave the damage the way it is now, but less emphasis is put on the ammunition:gil ratio of it that, lets be honest, does kind of suck

[terraflarex]

It's good that they are trying to balance things out, even if a lot of this is long overdue. As far as the ranger fix goes it's just nice to see the idea of haste on ranged attacks since other big DDs have a lot of haste gear available (Black belt, Speed belt, turban, dusk, etc etc etc). That being said, this velocity shot stuff shouldn't make it like it was way back when rangers were the only acceptable DDs. It's all about keeping everything evenly balanced so that people can just play jobs that they enjoy without being considered "gimp" just for using said job (regardless of gear). And the amount of gil you spend to do damage shouldn't really be an issue anymore in terms of "which is/should be better". Back when ammo was stupidly expensive, I guess I could understand the mentality, but now it's just plain retarded since every damage dealing job is going to have to spend money on something and ammo is really not that bad now (on remora, anyway). Adding recycle to the normal Job Traits on Ranger really would have been a nice idea though, tbh. So anyway, in conclusion, yay for SE trying to balance jobs out to be more even.

And on a side note: A very special FU for having me fly across the country to see a fanfest that didn't deliver on the AV video!

[BRP]

This is a stupid argument really. And should be discussed on another part of the forum.

[Fridell]

Some arguments gives me headache.

[Kirbyprime]

Real cor's spam Iron bullets and only switch to Steel for WS and Barrage

I hate every single COR that does this.

[Remyo]

This is a stupid argument really. And should be discussed on another part of the forum.

holy shit can your vagina leak any more? turn that faucet off plz.

[Xavier]

COR is more expensive to play as a shooting job than RNG is. By your logic, Veli, COR who spam steel bullets should outparse RNG who spam silver bullets, right? At the moment, steel bullets are twice as expensive as silver bullets.

I don't know about you, but I don't invite a COR to the party to fill a DD role. They're benefit comes from their rolls, granting the party refresh, attack, accuracy, etc. If they choose deal damage as well, thats fine, but its not their signature reason for an invite.

When you choose to play RNG, you accept the fact that it costs a lot of money. For the purposes of balance, RNG shouldn't be unilaterally better than the next best thing just because they cost more - they have their niches to fill, as do other DD.

I wouldn't want RNG to be significantly better, but I don't see the problem in them dealing an extra 1% or so of the damage in a party either.

If a ranger fires an arrow that costs ~150 gil and deals 150 dmg, and a warrior swings his great axe once (costs 0 gil), and deals 200 dmg in the same amount of time, then the game isn't balanced. Nevermind the possiblity of the WAR double attacking and dealing 400 dmg instead, while no ranged attack can do the same.

I don't think every melee job should deal identical damage because then you might as well only have one, but I don't think -any- of the melee jobs are significantly different enough in a party to make them stand out, either. There isn't diversity behind the jobs, they all play pretty much the same way, filling the same role, and actually -lack- special niches to make them unique.

------------------------------------------------

Arguments like these never amount to anything, because you'll always have someone who feels threatened and has to denounce any nerf/boost that might weaken their own jobs.

[Maxxthepenguin]

If a ranger fires an arrow that costs ~150 gil and deals 150 dmg, and a warrior swings his great axe once (costs 0 gil), and deals 200 dmg in the same amount of time, then the game isn't balanced. Nevermind the possiblity of the WAR double attacking and dealing 400 dmg instead, while no ranged attack can do the same.

Rapid Shot is basically double attack >_>