Job Adjustments

[Lebzile]

I've easily out-damage any non-SAM 2-handed user who is subbing NIN (obviously there are those better geared than me that would likely have different results) when I'm on MNK/NIN. I've gone about even with the SAM/NINs I've merited with, with maybe me falling 6000 damage behind at the end of a 3 hour party. This is at a colibri camp where I can't reliably use sushi and the 2-handed users cannot reliably use meat, so for all intensive purpsoes it was if I had no food versus 2-handed weapon users who have the innate increased accuracy and attack.

Now, if the great axe WAR/NINs were using /SAM instead and knew how to use the sub effectively, then I have no doubt I'd of been out-damaged by a good margin. However, if I could sub warrior, then chances are it'd likely favor MNK again over great axe WAR and scythe/great sword DRKs, with SAM pulling of everyone.

Main discrepency in this scenario is that /SAM is a good defensive and offensive sub job for 2-handed users, whereas /WAR is either suicide or a huge MP sink for MNK.

Oh do I feel your pain, I'm hoping these new MNK traits they are adding will finally let us sub WAR without being an MP Sink, I love MNK, it was my first job to 75, but I just hate how weak it is compared to my SAM now since the 2h update. :/

[edit]

Maybe I will welcome the SAM nerf so I can actually get to exp on my MNK without being dissapointed. D:

[Vail]

I hope Repose is a divine magic spell. Divine magic is the less developed of the magic sets as it stands and is a highly unused skill outside of PLDs and WHMs using flash

Or Holy as a "joke"

Divine Magic: (7)
Banish
Banish II
Banish III
Banishga
Banishga II
Flash
Holy

Dark Magic: (17)
Bio
Bio II
Bio III
Drain
Drain II
Aspir
Stun
Absorb-STR
Absorb-DEX
Absorb-VIT
Absorb-AGL
Absorb-INT
Absorb-MND
Absorb-CHR
Absorb-TP
Dread Spikes
Tractor

Flash is a nice effect spell for buying people casting time, and primary as a hate tool for PLDs. All other divine spells are damage all of which are horribly ineffective sources of damage for thier MP cost. Holy is just eye-candy and a Ballista quickshot- horribly bad damage/MP use

Dark Magic sports the best damage/MP spell in the game (Drain) in addition to having a large range of enfeeble/buff spells and a utility spell "Tractor" and an effective DoT line spell.

Dark Magic could use some more stuff, like some higher straight damage spells (non-drain stuff) I'm sure, but Divine really needs alot of push over to make useful. Atleast with dark skill you got drk who will merit it. Who merits divine magic? I don't even think plds do unless they're desprite and have no other jobs. Most WHMs will merit enfeebling magic cause of how far behind thier native skill falls behind at 75.

Also I hope that Repose is subjob usable. As much as alot of rdms will cry about only have 200 divine skill making it hard to use, it's not much of a strech over a whm having to turn to enfeeble magic after about lv50 (or worse yet a whm trying to drain/aspir with /blm) atleast when rdm subs blm they have better success with dark magic by having natural skill.

[Fyrebrand]

Why can't they just give me Jubaku:NI instead of crap like sange and sneak ninjutsu... lol

[Zerolon]

http://ff11creatersvoice.cocolog-nifty. ... hoto_6.jpg

Repose in work...?

[Shalyn]

So many haters for the RDM 'adjustment' when we don't even know for sure what they mean. Take it to the 'Ongoing RDM Melee Argument' thread on KI. I'm just hoping that it'll be something useful to ME, since I happen to solo/duo-rdm a lot of my stuff.

Now, on to the coolness of the THF addition, I have only had need to use my 2-hour when everyone is dead already, I think it'll definitely fun to be able to actually help and possibly sacrifice for the rest of the group. \:D/

[Dense]

...And since when did MNKs need help?

They don't need help as much as they need a niche in the game. I love playing MNK, it's just there are rarely any times that i CAN, because they are rarely needed anymore. Before the 2handed patch, MNK was able to easily get meripos, and 2handed users were STILL preferred for HNMs and the like. Now that MNK is no longer the preferred job for meripos, the ONLY thing we're in demand for is Salvage. I'd love to be able to play on MNK more, there just lacks a niche for MNKs. Right now, the feeling of the entire game community is this: "throw more SAMs at it."

[Builttolast]

Why can't they just give me Jubaku:NI instead of crap like sange and sneak ninjutsu... lol

I'm leveling nin and amazed this isn't an option. Seriously, 2/3 debuffs are short cast Ni why ignore the 3rd for so long? It should at least be a merit option.

[cdryik]

With a google translate of: http://ff11creatersvoice.cocolog-nifty.com/

White Mage is Altana AG upgraded by the soldiers of God, the attributes of light sleep magic "Repose".

[dyluck]

Hope its subbable on RDM. It'd be nice being an enfeebling job with both light and dark based sleep spells.
Watch it be based on Divine skill though just to fuck with us.

another torque i have to carry??? NOOO!!!! curiously enough, divine torque is currently the top viewed item on ffxiah and selling out fast...

[Scythiroth]

Hope its subbable on RDM. It'd be nice being an enfeebling job with both light and dark based sleep spells.
Watch it be based on Divine skill though just to fuck with us.

another torque i have to carry??? NOOO!!!! curiously enough, divine torque is currently the top viewed item on ffxiah and selling out fast...

Just remember the bigger gobbiebag, that makes everything ok. (Until it costs like 1 mil because everyone will be trying to do it the day it comes out.)

[Breemer]

Dark Knight

Design concept was attacker with magic. More DRK specific spells for use in battle.

Aspir 2!
That sound you hear is all BLMs across the world simultaneously blowing their brains out.

i lol'd

Ninja

Possible new ninjitsu with sneak effect. Possible new ability which temporarily reduces enmity and then restores it to previous amount.

-1 inventory space for carrying another ninja tool.

well more like mog safe -1 since if youre on nin you dont need to carry silent oils any longer, plus the inventory is going to be 70 or 80 soon anyway

[Kuponut]

Only reason I'm leveling Samurai besides wanting to have a two-handed weapon job available, is because I can share most of the equip with my monk! Wish I could sub WAR on my monk though, alternating Berserk and Focus is nice, I usually forget to use focus as /NIN most of the time. I like all of the threads popping up regarding the job adjustments, each describing the changes using different words and such, like an ability increasing Monk's delay while boosting Damage seems nice and I wonder if it will be active on weaponskills, or if you will gain more TP per hit because delay is increased. And then there was something about them adding an ability to increase how often Monk's kick attack in one thread, and in another they were saying something about a kick attack weaponskill? It's late. I think Two-handed re-adjustment is kind of sad though, and I hope it's not too bad for anyone. I haven't heard "loldrg" in a long time though. And I think these few months have shown the highest balance ever between the melee jobs in FFXI to date, hopefully they don't mess that up. sleeeepp now

[eva00r]

And I think these few months have shown the highest balance ever between the melee jobs in FFXI to date, hopefully they don't mess that up.

hell no ... ask pup.

[Cadence]

THF is now the king of lesser HNM tanking (it already kinda was but lacked any way to gain hate but damage). We've always been the job best at avoiding damage but had no way to get/keep hate if we couldn't out damage people. Now with Accomplice we can...just have to wonder what the recast will be.

Also, Hide might be hot now. Think if there's some HNM you could actually Hide from (you can from Simurgh for instance) you could accomplice hate off a mage, then hide it altogether.

PLD makes me think of Holy Shield from WoW, deals light damage when you block with shield (also increases block rate but that doesn't really need buffing like it did in WoW) which looks awesome.

More spells for DRK looks decent, it has high elemental magic skill, make it useful!

I really cannot wait.

Tier IV spells

[Xanoxonax]

THF is now the king of lesser HNM tanking (it already kinda was but lacked any way to gain hate but damage). We've always been the job best at avoiding damage but had no way to get/keep hate if we couldn't out damage people. Now with Accomplice we can...just have to wonder what the recast will be.

Also, Hide might be hot now. Think if there's some HNM you could actually Hide from (you can from Simurgh for instance) you could accomplice hate off a mage, then hide it altogether.

PLD makes me think of Holy Shield from WoW, deals light damage when you block with shield (also increases block rate but that doesn't really need buffing like it did in WoW) which looks awesome.

More spells for DRK looks decent, it has high elemental magic skill, make it useful!

I really cannot wait.

Tier IV spells

Yeah, blow that awesome MP pool in one shot.

[MarkM.]

As a person that leveled rdm b/c i thought in a pt setting it was going to be versatile, i guess it has come true. I just can't wait til I start leveing another job and only healer job looking is a rdm.

/sea all <insert random noob name here>


Main heal, NO THANKS! MEREE RDM ONRY BITCHES!


And yes, when I was back in my noobie stages, I thought rdm was a melee job But then I got to qufim island and realized it wasn't.

[Aymee]

Now, if the great axe WAR/NINs were using /SAM instead and knew how to use the sub effectively, then I have no doubt I'd of been out-damaged by a good margin.

...Wait. There are WARs that know how to use the sub??!? Woah. Where'd they come from?
...In all seriousness though, you're entirely correct. WAR/NINs with 2-handeds make me cry from the wasted potential, and it gives a stigma that WAR is now a second-rate DD. 90% (of the very few that will ever sub SAM with great axe at all) will slap on hasso and wildly swing away. They seems oblivious of the fact that unless Jesus is their tank, there are never any adds that need to be voked off mages, and the PT has 3 PLs... they are merely an MP sink and hurting total exp. Actually, I haven't had a tank ever be able to hold things if I go entirley nuts as war/sam without TA help. I don't fault them for it one bit--it's 100% my fault.

I'm in kinda a weird position about all of this... I've loved war/sam for some time anyway even before the adjusting, but the sub was always laughed at. ...So to use a 2-handed weapon all the time, I lvled SAM. Naturally, I still have the dual wield potential of /nin--and I loved the dual wield dmg so much I lvled NIN. So I'm sitting here with a 100% dual wield job. One that can do either, and one that's 100% 2-handed. I'm curious to see what SE thinks is a balance. As it stands, SAM is disturbing on hnm activities, but for just raw dmg my war/sam totally has the win. NIN for any serious dmg is little more than a tool with a 7th shadow in comparison. I've actually grown angry that under no circumstance can I go all-out on on 2-handeds and not hurt the PT. If it means some nerfing, I won't complain.

Main discrepency in this scenario is that /SAM is a good defensive and offensive sub job for 2-handed users, whereas /WAR is either suicide or a huge MP sink for MNK.

Dare I invoke lawlDRG? My primary partner in crime has been putzing with drg/sam vs drg/war since the patch... she actually prefers /war. Particularly on colibri with her damn piercing bonus. The trick being that DRG has some self-defense without the SAM sub, so they can push a little harder. For the mobs where they WS early or adds come, they can shed hate and don't require the self-defense. No I'm not saying we should all so sub DRG instead, but this gives them a unique perk that no one seems to be aware of or takes advantage of.
I actually envy it... she can pop 2k penta on a bird vs my 'weak' 1500 raging rush, she high jumps, and because my third eye wore 2 seconds ago I eat a pecking flurry to the face. That said, I'm curious how the new WAR tanking changes work... it'd be fun of war/sam was a viable tank for casual purposes instead of the boring war/nin standard. If few PLDs can hold off a meritted-out 2-hander and NINs are mostly doomed, getting to tank in a merit PT would be great! I mean, if I'm going to have hate most of the time anyway.


Oh... and going to add this. Don't go all "NIN is fine, don't act like it's weak" on me. I think it's fine. It's not supposed to be a heavy DD. But as it stands currently, they can't hold hate vs 2-handeds. At all. Both the DoT and spike dmg is too much. They pretty much require a brd (or 2 support) to have any chance. At best, they voke something and have it for 15 seconds before they have to recast Ni, and that's it. They cast Ichi as the mob dies, repeat. Far from previous glory of the past few years, and they weren't even nerfed.

[Lucavi]

Oh... and going to add this. Don't go all "NIN is fine, don't act like it's weak" on me. I think it's fine. It's not supposed to be a heavy DD. But as it stands currently, they can't hold hate vs 2-handeds. At all. Both the DoT and spike dmg is too much. They pretty much require a brd (or 2 support) to have any chance. At best, they voke something and have it for 15 seconds before they have to recast Ni, and that's it. They cast Ichi as the mob dies, repeat. Far from previous glory of the past few years, and they weren't even nerfed.

Isn't that all they need, though? In a merit situation, the mob is dead before the second voke is even ready, and in HNM, nin's hold hate extremely well through various methods. Why do they need increased hate-tools for xp and merits with fights that last no time at all, only for these same hate methods to spill over into HNM and give them an edge over pld-tanking that they simply don't need?

If you want to give nin a better chance to hold hate, then give them fucking throwing WSes that consume 50% tp, since SE is obviously kicking around the concept that it shouldn't always have to take 100% to do everything (hi2udancer), and make shurkiens actually somewhat affordable to use. Or simply give them their own damage-increasing JA, such as a crit-enhancing JA with a duration like berserk (aren't ninja always supposed to aim those small katana at vital points anyway?), or something to give them a small-ish initial damage spike.

Nins are fantastic as they are, and you have to remember that just about everyone that actually knows a comprehensive amount of info about this game is either currently into HNM, or was once into it at some point. You buff nin too much and suddenly we're back in the 2005 arguments of "why bring a pld!?", and nobody needs that shit anymore.


::Edit:: If you're really that concerned, then simply wait for Dancer. Once nin subs /dancer and gets their provoke with every step, and their en-drain dance with only 10%tp, then nin won't need to hold hate every waking second. Or just bring a real dancer into the party and presto; it really doesn't matter who has hate, as the stronger the meele strikes, the more hp is drained back to them. Maybe this drain dance is the answer to forcing everyone and their grandmother to sub /nin at the risk of being branded the dreaded "MP SINK!".

[Sasarai]

Didn't they mention reducing the effectiveness of 2hand DD (especially SAM, which noone can deny is deserved) making it therefor easier for NIN to hold hate off one anyway?

These job adjustments make me wet, Velocity Shot better not disappoint.

[Lucavi]

There's conflicting reports on that, Sas. Some people are saying only sam WS damage is getting affected -- others are saying that any 2-handed reduction will only target sams, since they gained the most from the update. I don't think it's been confirmed exactly how, and we probably won't know for sure until we can get our own hands on it and test it out.