Monster / Notorious Monster Discussion

[fantasticdan]

Pretty sure that Pixies/Sprites are scholars, they manipulate seasons and use white magic with low casting time... no black magic though. unless you consider the TP moves that replicate seasons to be their form of 'black magic'.

Dancer-type Beastmen would be funny... maybe our humor will be piqued when the other zones get revealed. Dancing Demons and Orcs would be kinda silly...

You can't really use the nature of a mob to determine it's main job. For instance colibri have mp, and mimic spells cast at them, wouldn't it make most sense for them to be blu? However they are certainly rdm/rdm. Many mobs you would also think to be blm or rdm are actually only subbing those jobs. Most (all?)corse, and many weapons are actually war/blm. The "blm" qutrubs are actually thf/blm. The eft NM from the like the wind ENM is thf/rdm, yet has access to aero IV and whatnot.

The only reliable way to determine a mobs job/subjob is through stats, job traits, and the type of magic they have access too(not the tier).

[Lyriane]

You can't really use the nature of a mob to determine it's main job. For instance colibri have mp, and mimic spells cast at them, wouldn't it make most sense for them to be blu? However they are certainly rdm/rdm. Many mobs you would also think to be blm or rdm are actually only subbing those jobs. Most (all?)corse, and many weapons are actually war/blm. The "blm" qutrubs are actually thf/blm. The eft NM from the like the wind ENM is thf/rdm, yet has access to aero IV and whatnot.

The only reliable way to determine a mobs job/subjob is through stats, job traits, and the type of magic they have access too(not the tier).

That very first piece of advice is the most reasonable thing I took away from that post. So, for each of those counterintuitive examples you followed it up with do you have some data that backs up these claims? Colibri are rdm... huh? What makes you think that? My opinion from personal experience would be that Colibri don't have jobs. I'd also tend to disbelieve the "thf/blm" Qutrub idea by virtue of the fact that blm quts have no evasion to speak of, which is the primary observable trait of beastman thf mobs.

[ronin sparthos]

If you go by pankration, qutrubs are just either Dark Knights or Black Mages which makes perfect sense by what they do. Qutrubs are beastmen which makes pinning a job to them easy.... compared to like a Colibri which is like... 3 jobs combined.

[BRP]

Hmmm, how tame/easy are Gnoles during New Moon? There is a potential "Lobson"(name might be totally off) camp in Jugner with all VTs...

[fantasticdan]

That very first piece of advice is the most reasonable thing I took away from that post. So, for each of those counterintuitive examples you followed it up with do you have some data that backs up these claims? Colibri are rdm... huh? What makes you think that? My opinion from personal experience would be that Colibri don't have jobs. I'd also tend to disbelieve the "thf/blm" Qutrub idea by virtue of the fact that blm quts have no evasion to speak of, which is the primary observable trait of beastman thf mobs.

Colibri are rdm/rdm because they have that stats of a rdm/rdm. The dagger qutrubs in arrapago reef and the mire are thf/blm, go check. High evasion, triple attack (would need to be 110blm/55thf to have it subbed), and obviously have mp and access to blm spells. If you're seeing low evasion ones, you are probably confusing drk qutrub with the thf, or are talking about nms/besieged mobs which may be different. NMs may not be consistent in terms of job traits, but every regular mob I've seen is fairly identifiable..

[Lujei]

I haven't looked through the entire thread, but what's up with the despawning Poroggo Gent in Saruta [S]?

[Priran]

I haven't looked through the entire thread, but what's up with the despawning Poroggo Gent in Saruta [S]?

Other than that it despawns for some unknown reason? It also spawns for an unknown reason.

Hmmm, how tame/easy are Gnoles during New Moon? There is a potential "Lobson"(name might be totally off) camp in Jugner with all VTs...

They're much weaker during a new moon. This camp has been tested already, the lobisons are chainable with 3 people during new moons and pointless with 6 during full moon.

[Lyriane]

That very first piece of advice is the most reasonable thing I took away from that post. So, for each of those counterintuitive examples you followed it up with do you have some data that backs up these claims? Colibri are rdm... huh? What makes you think that? My opinion from personal experience would be that Colibri don't have jobs. I'd also tend to disbelieve the "thf/blm" Qutrub idea by virtue of the fact that blm quts have no evasion to speak of, which is the primary observable trait of beastman thf mobs.

Colibri are rdm/rdm because they have that stats of a rdm/rdm. The dagger qutrubs in arrapago reef and the mire are thf/blm, go check. High evasion, triple attack (would need to be 110blm/55thf to have it subbed), and obviously have mp and access to blm spells. If you're seeing low evasion ones, you are probably confusing drk qutrub with the thf, or are talking about nms/besieged mobs which may be different. NMs may not be consistent in terms of job traits, but every regular mob I've seen is fairly identifiable..

Close, I'm thinking of mainly the ones in Salvage where I've never noticed a difference in acc. Every other thf mob even EM or up I've found it's pretty noticeable. I suppose they're still first floor though, and could simply be too weak for it to register.

But I guess my point is, in large part whether we think of a mob as "a RDM mob" vs. having "stats like a RDM" it's semantics in the end, so whatever. For me, if you tell me Colibri are RDM, and you're totally right, that's meaningless information for me unless I can hone my fight pattern by thinking of them as such. But what actually helps the most when thinking about fighting Colibri is... well, thinking about fighting Colibri.

So how about Mandragoras. Are they Monks? Well they do get Martial Arts and Guard, and that certainly helps to keep in mind if you go hunting them. But that's pretty much all. There's a lot more to Monkhood than that.

I just don't think you really want to say "Mob X has Trait/Ability Y of Job Z and therefore all Xs are Zs." The game is not so limiting as that.

[LD]

It is, actually, that's how practically all monsters are created. It's why Crabs have high def and MP, it's why most non-beastmen have DA, it's why it isn't fun to tank Mandies, Taurus, or Gnole(?) unless you're a PLD.

Your being a philistine doesn't take away from the fact that knowing a creature's job and accompanying statistics can and does help in fighting it more effectively, whether you realize it or not.

[Sci]

So how about Mandragoras. Are they Monks? Well they do get Martial Arts and Guard, and that certainly helps to keep in mind if you go hunting them. But that's pretty much all. There's a lot more to Monkhood than that.

They also have Subtle blow, and at high enough level Kick Attacks as well I believe.

I thought I saw testing done a long time ago figuring out the exact base stats of Aura Statues and it was determined that they were WAR/WARs. And their base stats lined up perfectly for their level range for that kind of job configuration. But I hadn't seen that applied and tested to any other monsters. But if it holds true, it is indeed very useful. Giving exact numbers for base stats is extremely useful in the right hands.

[BRP]

They're much weaker during a new moon. This camp has been tested already, the lobisons are chainable with 3 people during new moons and pointless with 6 during full moon.

So uh, was it good? Have we found the first merit camp of WotG(even if it's only during specific moon phases)?

[Max™]

Do a search for Nagamaki's posts on Crits and whatnot, has some examples of working out Colibri and Aura Statue base stats.

[Wizerd]

Monsters may have jobs and/or subjobs, but they certainly don't need to have the subjob at a specific level to have the abilities of the subjob. For example, other than the stats, those Qutrub could be BLM/THF in theory and still have Triple Attack. I've noticed there are cases where this is true and cases where it's not, so it's actually not as limiting as it would seem.

Also, the Qutrub BLMs in Salvage are BLM only, I'm pretty sure(assumption only). None of them have the evasion of a THF, and they all take the damage of a BLM (even more paper thin than a THF ).

Needs more Djinning, do COR shots make them explode?

[Xanthe]

I don't know if it was mentioned eariler, but are there Dancer or Scholar mobs anywhere?

the only one i know of is the NM for the angelstone, which is an NM orc. much like gomory, he totes an axe instead of a weapon more appropriate for his job oddly.

He's a dancer? He didn't seem to do anything dancery.


I did see a Quadav NM who would randomly change from white to black magic back and forth alot, it seemed scholar-ish. Casted holy, diaga, etc then would randomly go to bio, aspir, sleepga etc back and forth. Sure SCH don't get those spells but it was odd.

could have sworn i saw him do some dance, but i'm not confident enough in my memory to challenge you on it. it only lasted 20 some seconds, so i could easily be wrong.

Getting back to that Orc NM, it's not a DNC. I soloed it for the quest and saw the move you're thinking of, Orcish Dance. Immediately after he used it my chatlog showed him gaining the effect of haste. No status effect on me indicating a daze, just a strait up self-haste buff. I've actually seen Bakgodek use it in Campaing battles as well, and we know he's a PLD. Chalk it up to a new TP move available to Orcs in the past.

[Zak]

Getting back to that Orc NM, it's not a DNC. I soloed it for the quest and saw the move you're thinking of, Orcish Dance. Immediately after he used it my chatlog showed him gaining the effect of haste. No status effect on me indicating a daze, just a strait up self-haste buff. I've actually seen Bakgodek use it in Campaing battles as well, and we know he's a PLD. Chalk it up to a new TP move available to Orcs in the past.

That Orc uses Counterstance too, so he's a MNK most likely.

[Rocl]

Regular Orcs get the Counterstance Dance, Orc NMs get the Haste Dance afaik

[Xanthe]

Getting back to that Orc NM, it's not a DNC. I soloed it for the quest and saw the move you're thinking of, Orcish Dance. Immediately after he used it my chatlog showed him gaining the effect of haste. No status effect on me indicating a daze, just a strait up self-haste buff. I've actually seen Bakgodek use it in Campaing battles as well, and we know he's a PLD. Chalk it up to a new TP move available to Orcs in the past.

That Orc uses Counterstance too, so he's a MNK most likely.

Actually, he uses "Orcish Counterstance" which is another new TP move for Orcs in the past. He's definitely not a MNK given he didn't attack 2-3 times per round.

[edit]

Regular Orcs get the Counterstance Dance, Orc NMs get the Haste Dance afaik

That sounds about right. Similar to how Yagudo all get Feathered Furor(sp) (line of sight, strips random equipment slot) and Yagudo NMs get Dark Invocation (huge single-target darkness attack).

[Max™]

Regular Orcs get the Counterstance Dance, Orc NMs get the Haste Dance afaik

This is correct.

You will see Bakgodek and Rognoj and Proz kinda dance around in place, really funny looking, see it almost every Orc Campaign battle if you watch for it.

[Zak]

So, no DAN, no MNK, just ORC. 8)

[Wizerd]

So, no DAN, no MNK, just ORC. 8)

He might be named Dan, you never know.

(Learn your abbreviations. :/)

Edit: Also, has anyone seen any DNC NPCs? We've seen SCH NPCs, but...