Campaign discussion

[Yutuyu]

People complaining about the system being broken is a good thing. SE does pay attention somewhat, and it helps them adjust things.

[Nyuneko]

Well, then I hope they fix these:

-Make it more possible for us to get to Citadel/Nest/Necropolis in time for campaign, it pains me to see their fortifications dropping fast and no one could help... Like, may be a direct teleport to the C.A. NPC. ;_;

-Disable the "AoE of campaign monster hitting players outside campaign", it's bloody annoying when I was trying to get my tag, and the campaign monsters sleepga-ed me, beat me to half dead, etc... Or is this the return of the MPK patch?

-Campaign announcement, CAMPAIGN ANNOUNCEMENT!!! orz

[Max™]

There should be 3 Key Items, like the marble bridge coaster.

Either a quest, or a ??? or something to go get them.

Windurst
Bastok
Sandy

This way, when they're being attacked, or attacking, you get the blurb from the appropriate one and know where to rush off too as it starts.

That + Increasing the frequency again - The 1 Exp/AN per Second timer (or at least make the timer fill up when the fight is over, dammit) and Campaign would be super awesome again.

[Fhqwghads]

Couple of things bugging me about Campaign:

- The map doesn't reflect the actual status of Campaign. It isn't updated fast enough, and is unreliable. It can still read an active campaign in an area for a long time after the actual battle has ended.
- The region map is too large, scrolling around to the 4 corners of the map looking for swords is tedious. Give us an option to make the entire map fit the screen so we can see the status of Campaign at a glance.
- Add a command to list areas that are currently under attack, like "/clist." It would produce chat text such as:

Areas under attack:
East Ronfaure [S]
Grauberg [S]
Sauromugue Champaign [S]

Would help to quickly identify areas that players need to teleport to, and avoid having to spam /cmap over and over again, which is really annoying.

Or, even better, add the ability to register with an NPC to receive campaign battle event notifications. Whenever a battle starts, the NPC would send you a tell, or there would be a system message, or some means to communicate to the player when an area starts a campaign battle. Bonus points for a message stating when the battle ended so people don't waste their time running out to an area for nothing. Examples:

Campaign message:
East Ronfaure [S] is under attack!

Campaign message:
East Ronfaure [S] is no longer under attack. The Allied Forces were victorious!

Campaign message:
East Ronfaure [S] is no longer under attack. The Beastmen overcame the Allied Force's defenses.

[Gwynplaine]

I got the expansion a little later than most people so I'm trying to catch up on it all. Campaign is fun and kind of addicting so far, although the slow Cmap is lame. I have a lot of questions if anyone is willing to answer some of them:

Where do you purchase the temp items mentioned in the update? Is it only if you're doing campaign in a zone your nation controls? I haven't ever been given or had the option to purchase temp items so far.

Is the main goal to reduce beastmen fortifications, and protect the players forts? How can you reduce fortifications? Someone in this thread mentioned using their own AoE on nearby enemies to damage them. Is that the only way players can directly damage them? Will AoE damage from a non-campaign mob still hit a fort? Are the ??? targets the spots where the fort will take damage? All the campaign I've attended consists of a bunch of players attacking whatever mob is closest to the C.A. Is there a point to defeating the enemies, or is it just so the NPC's can be cleared to attack the fort?

Another thing I noticed is that during Bastok area campaign is that NPC's dont show up until about 5 minutes in. Once they do they typically spawn completely on the opposite side of wherever the players are fighting, which just results in the NPC's dying while no one even regards them. Bastok is set to use "diversionary tactics" so idk if maybe it relates to that or if they always act that way.

How are morale/prosperity of the Beastmen lowered? Defeating normal beastmen in any zone?

[Foosk]

Here we go again..

I'm sitting at the npc spamming /cmap, I see the beastmen at Grauberg are being attacked so I immediately OP, grab a tag and run up to the fort. A few people are engaged but there are plenty of quadav around so i pull one and sleep, cast a few buffs and the mobs then proceed to run away, battle over.

I go back to the npc, spam more /cmap. I see an attack start on Meriphaud Mtns, so again I immediately OP there, run up to the fort (I am the 1st one there, with multiple people running behind me) I run straight up to a yag and begin to cast silence to pull, mid-cast the mobs warp and the fight is over. No one was able to get a single swing in on any mob. What are we doing wrong?

[Kaylia]

Anyone wish they would have made Fortification targetable by PC? It's stupid we cant attack them. Can increase their def against player or something, just allow me to do something.

Also, enemy fortress should always be defended by monsters. It just looks retarded when the enemy fort is left alone, and you can't do anything.

[Fhqwghads]

Anyone wish they would have made Fortification targetable by PC? It's stupid we cant attack them. Can increase their def against player or something, just allow me to do something.

Also, enemy fortress should always be defended by monsters. It just looks retarded when the enemy fort is left alone, and you can't do anything.

I agree. I'm not a healer, but can players target an alliance fortress and heal it if mobs are attacking it? Also, I haven't had the opportunity, but can a beastmen controlled fortress be attacked while a campaign battle is active?

[Almalexia]

Where do you purchase the temp items mentioned in the update?

You can only purchase temp items from a representative of your nation, so only in zones that your nation controls. C.A.s and representatives of other nations will not give you an option to purchase items.

Is the main goal to reduce beastmen fortifications, and protect the players forts? How can you reduce fortifications? Someone in this thread mentioned using their own AoE on nearby enemies to damage them. Is that the only way players can directly damage them? Will AoE damage from a non-campaign mob still hit a fort? Are the ??? targets the spots where the fort will take damage? All the campaign I've attended consists of a bunch of players attacking whatever mob is closest to the C.A. Is there a point to defeating the enemies, or is it just so the NPC's can be cleared to attack the fort?

The main goal in a defensive campaign (where an ally controls a fort) is to deplete the invading force to a point at which they retreat, usually when 2 mobs remain. The invading force will also withdraw after a certain amount of time, even if they clearly have the upper hand.

The main goal in an offensive campaign (attacking a beastmen fort) is twofold: firstly, you need to deplete or distract the forces around the fortification so that the NPCs can safely engage and deal damage to the fort itself. Secondly, you need to keep the NPCs alive. NPCs are the only things that can target a fortification and bringing down a fortification translates into zone influence. Players can do damage to a fort, but this requires an AoE WS or -ga spell. Yes, you can use monsters outside campaign as AoE targets, and yes, the "weak point" is around the ???s at the base of any fort. However, the only way to practically accumulate EXP/AN in an offensive campaign is by wailing on the beastmen, so this is why most players resolve to kill mobs around the fort instead of taking care of NPCs or manipulating targets for AoE.

Another thing I noticed is that during Bastok area campaign is that NPC's dont show up until about 5 minutes in. Once they do they typically spawn completely on the opposite side of wherever the players are fighting, which just results in the NPC's dying while no one even regards them. Bastok is set to use "diversionary tactics" so idk if maybe it relates to that or if they always act that way.

I see many factors that affect NPC presence: there are a limited number of heroes with a limited number of legions your nation can deploy. If any NPCs are defeated, they need time to respawn. If your nation is heavy on defense, more NPCs will be assigned to guard a fort than invade a fort. If your nation is interested in sabotage, more NPCs will be sent to clobber beastmen forts while the beastmen are attacking another zone. And so on.

The case with some forts is that the side from which an allied NPC force arrives is opposite the C.A. Many players are too timid to stray from their precious EXP/AN provider, so they don't venture to the far side of the fortification where all the NPCs are getting their shit kicked. This happens all the time in Rolanberry, but Bastok on Sylph is not involved in "diversionary tactics" as you mentioned. I don't have a clue what diversionary tactics does. Hell, maybe delayed NPC attack is part of diversionary tactics and we are supposed to be the diversion.

To further expand on NPC behavior, I think the strategy "pre-emptive strike" makes NPCs arrive before the defending force finishes spawning. If you ever hang around a beastmen fort, you may find an NM and his guards appearing one by one before a campaign in that zone finally initiates. Pre-emptive strike probably jumps the gun, assuming your nation has the units to spare, and begins the campaign before the beastmen can ready a complete defense.

How are morale/prosperity of the Beastmen lowered? Defeating normal beastmen in any zone?

I don't know. Yagudo and Orc have always been 0, and Quadav have always been full!

Also, I haven't had the opportunity, but can a beastmen controlled fortress be attacked while a campaign battle is active?

I know of two occasions when the enemy fortifications are prone to attack:

- During an allied invasion of a beastmen zone (tags, music, claymore icon, etc.)
- While the beastmen are invading an allied zone; this only applies to the relevant beastmen force.
e.g.: The Quadav control Rolanberry, San d'Oria controls Batallia and the Orcs control Jugner. There is no conflict currently in Rolanberry, Pashhow, Grauberg, Gustaberg or Bastok. The Orcs are currently invading Batallia.

The Orcish fort in Jugner will take damage, but the Quadav fort in Rolanberry will not take damage.

[Fhqwghads]

- During an allied invasion of a beastmen zone (tags, music, claymore icon, etc.)
- While the beastmen are invading an allied zone; this only applies to the relevant beastmen force.
e.g.: The Quadav control Rolanberry, San d'Oria controls Batallia and the Orcs control Jugner. There is no conflict currently in Rolanberry, Pashhow, Grauberg, Gustaberg or Bastok. The Orcs are currently invading Batallia.

The Orcish fort in Jugner will take damage, but the Quadav fort in Rolanberry will not take damage.

Sweet. I'll have to kick the crap out of a beastman controlled fort when I get the chance.

[Kaylia]

Anyone wish they would have made Fortification targetable by PC? It's stupid we cant attack them. Can increase their def against player or something, just allow me to do something.

Also, enemy fortress should always be defended by monsters. It just looks retarded when the enemy fort is left alone, and you can't do anything.

I agree. I'm not a healer, but can players target an alliance fortress and heal it if mobs are attacking it? Also, I haven't had the opportunity, but can a beastmen controlled fortress be attacked while a campaign battle is active?

A beastman fortress is never targetable by player. The only exception (most likely a glitch) is "aga" spell on a nearby target that will hit the Fortress. You can only do this when campaign is activate too.


The attacking NPC (beastman attacking you, or you attacking beastman) will always warp out if they deal ~20/150 points of damages to the fortification on the campaign map. I've no idea how much hp they have, but I assume it's something like 300 000. That's why beastman will warp quite fast when they are all zerging tower (I've seen NM deal 4k dmg per hit on tower)

[Builttolast]

You can attack the fortification at any time using -ga spells (you can use apradar to see where these "fortification" are exactly. there are 3 per structure). When they disappear the attacking team will warp.

When you attack you seem to sometimes be able to initiate an NPC assault, however after they destroy the structure the defenders will return and repair it beyond the damage you've already done. This is a problem because the campaign are so few and far between they often have hours to replenish from 100/150 to 150/150.

[Ryushii]

Ok, this was odd.

So I was in CN for about 20 minutes. No campaign music or anything. I took a walk to the bstmen fort, and found like 10 npcs wailing on it. There were no enemies there. Still no campaign music. I also never saw campaign status in the campaign region info. I sat there and watched em for like 2-3 minutes, then they warped. A couple minutes later they had done 11 damage to the fort according to the region info. Wierd.

Also, where is the teleportation NPC in crawler's nest?

[Kaylia]

Ok, this was odd.

So I was in CN for about 20 minutes. No campaign music or anything. I took a walk to the bstmen fort, and found like 10 npcs wailing on it. There were no enemies there. Still no campaign music. I also never saw campaign status in the campaign region info. I sat there and watched em for like 2-3 minutes, then they warped. A couple minutes later they had done 11 damage to the fort according to the region info. Wierd.

Also, where is the teleportation NPC in crawler's nest?

Same happened in Eldieme last 2. Was especially frustrating considering I needed Campaign to compelted my Assault Op and couldnt get a single campaign.
Ironically, no orc ever attacked us when campaign finally started. I got some point curing myself and the mission completed.

[Not Kuno]

God I feel so cheated. I went to Saru to go do campaign. Suddenly I die because I take 2k damage before signing up. What the crap. -_-

[Nyuneko]

God I feel so cheated. I went to Saru to go do campaign. Suddenly I die because I take 2k damage before signing up. What the crap. -_-

Happend to me as well, and Saruta too... And we lose EXP for that as well!!

I just wish they remove the "Campaign monster AoE hits players not in campaign" eventually, or it will be the return of the MPK.

EDIT: It seems that the "Death penalty" the NPC warn us about when we ask about Allied tag is referring to the cut on the Allied Note reward, I don't think there is a cap that cap Allied note at half the Experience earned, but instead our AN is cut when we die? Reason I believe this is that I got 670/673 in W.Saruta campaign, in which I didn't die, while the next campaign at Rolanberry, I died a lot and got 67x/3xx; though I think W.Saruta being my home nation could be a reason as well, guess I will try dying in Saruta and see if my points drop. It just feels kinda silly that they warn us about "Death penalty", but I always seem to get a lot more EXP if I spend the whole campaign dying and rr-ing.

[Suiram]

It's not that there is a cap on AN to 1/2 exp, it's that AN is generated at half the rate of exp. Then the cap is applied uniformly to both, and then there appears to be something (not sure what) that could add an additional 1~5 points to the AN award, which is applied after the cap. So say you do 1200exp worth of crap in a campaign battle. If you redeem after 5 minutes you'll get 300exp/300~305AN, if you redeem after 10 minutes 600exp/600~605AN, after 15 minutes it's 900/600~605, and after 20 you get the full 1200/600~605.

So basically in the example you just gave you did over 1300exp in that Saruta Campaign, but only had tags for 11 minutes so both your exp and AN had the same cap, then in the subsequent campaign you only did 670ish worth of stuff.

[tymora]

Can we have a section on Campaign positioning for both offensive and defensive to make them last and last and last?
It is decently easy to make Rolanberry/Batalia/Sauromugue offensives last 30min +++++ (record for the events I took part in is 1 hour+ in both Rolanberry/Sauromugue).

I will list as much as I can remember here. Please add on to them/or correct me if you can. All directions are relative to the fort/castle/stronghold. Mobs that are present will probably differ across servers.

Rolanberry Offensive:
NPCs always come in from the gate west of the fort in Rolanberry. All people need to do is to pull 1 mob to the west gate and engage there. NPCs will arrive and be happy hitting on the that lone mob until it dies. All that remains to do is to keep them happy by pulling 1 by 1 until the fort has no defenders. (Just don't pull the NMs, especially SoftStep) The group holding up this offensive should be well advised to stay out of the way of people who like to train mobs by pulling to the north and can't seem to understand the words "Battle to the west side of fort" (in all languages) no matter how much you /sh it.

Sauromugue Offensive:
NPCs will come in from both south (usually mithras RNG, and they almost always arrive first) and east (usually casters and mithra melee). Since the defenders are usually Yagudo BLMs (Liturgists), a lone RDM can protect the NPCs indefinitely. I would suggest grabbing the mob the southern NPCs are hitting and pull them to the East of the fort. That way you can protect both groups at once. The group doing this attack should be relatively safe from the trains that will undoubtedly occur to the west of the castle.

Batalia Defensive:
Orcs appear to be able to come in anywhere from the western side (Jugner direction) and not necessarily through the NW Rampart gate.

Fort Karugo-Narugo Offensive
NPCs almost always charge in from the same gate you go through (East gate). Pulling 1 mob there to fight will jam them up happily where it's safe. They tend to split up through both east/west tunnels leading to the tower. So either block them before or after the tunnels. Sadly, there appears to be no safe haven from bad puller trains. Only hope is that the puller will understand enough to die by himself.

Jugner Offensive
NPCs appear to come in from both the western path and from the north east. Not enough experience in this to tell.

Jugner Defensive
Orcs appear to come in only from the south (Davoi) and heads straight to the tower.

Grauberg Offensive/Defensive
Turtles from the north, NPCs from the south, a little to the eastern side of the fort.

Saruta-Baruta Defensive
Yagudos from the West (Giddeus) and the North (If Karugo is in beastmen hands).

Meriphautaud Offensive
NPCs come in from the South-East of the tower. People always fight on the North East, hence the fights are seldom longer than 5 min.

Ronfaure Defensive
Orcs always come in from the south.

Vunkerl Offensive
NPCs always come in through the mountain path to the east, where the C.A. is. Orcs appear to come in round the lake from the north side. Again, not much experience here to tell.

Gustaberg Defensive
Turtles come in through the mountain gap north east of the tower.

Seldom do indoor fights now since they are so inaccessible so I have no comments on those.

[tymora]

It just feels kinda silly that they warn us about "Death penalty", but I always seem to get a lot more EXP if I spend the whole campaign dying and rr-ing.

You get +points for taking damage and -points for dying. Just so happen that it appears taking damage gives more points

[Max™]

Motherfucking Goddamit Son of a Bitch.

There aren't curses that properly explain how much I now DESPISE that timer/exp shit.

Was hopping around doing battles, then Sauromugue starts up, and Vunk just after.

I tell the blu I'd been around with to go to Vunk with me.

We get out there, it's just Three Eyed and his Throatrippers, but there are only four of us, so this is gonna be fun. Taru War/Drg, Whm/Blm, Blu/Nin, and a hume Rdm/Blm (I believe, he was anon and not in party) against them, good fun battle. I eat an EES for 725 and live (lolthreeyed) we pick them apart one by one, the hume sleepgaing them, me voking around to keep em plinking at me, we kill Three Eyed, 5 or 6 Predators, and people start to trickle in, we kill one of the three at the tower, get halfway through the second and they run off.

I tell my party to wait so they don't get screwed on exp, since with just the four of us out there, we all got a lot for it.

I tell em its been about 10 minutes, we still got maybe 10 minutes to go to be safe...and then R0, and disconnect.

Few minutes of cursing and praying the modem hooks back up, I get back in, the Blu had just turned his tag in and got 1240/880, so if I understand correctly, he would have gotten 1760/880 had he waited, and as I was tanking them all, and doing crap loads of damage PLUS taking craploads of damage, it's a safe bet I would have gotten 2000+...prior to Comcast randomly failing and booting my ass.

God I hope the maint tomorrow gets rid of that stupid bullshit, why should we be penalized for contributing more? The more you do, the longer you have to wait to turn in your tags without getting screwed out of exp.

I mean yeah, it's just 2k, I've lost that doing an old school kited Kirin, but dammit, I earned it, I wanted to be able to say "yeah, I got 2XXX exp in a Vunkerl fight once."

Not "Yeah, I did 2k worth of work and DCed 10 minutes after it ended while waiting for my tags to fill up."