Scholar discussion

[Lordwafik]

If they wanted the job to fill a WHM's role (when there's not many whms seeking in the lower levels), then they should have just given haste.

Hell, regen2/3 was one of the bigger advantages of being a WHM, and they gave it to scholars, may as well give them haste aswell since haste is one of the keys to being a support job.

As it is now, feels like either a gimpy nuker, or a mediocre whm who won't heal, nor melee, so uh kinda bleh.

[Khamsin]

Unless those helix spells really blow everyone away and they can compete with a BLM on parser (assuming such damage could be parsed). Then it'd be like SMN in that they don't get anything really damaging until late in the levels.

[fantasticdan]

Unless those helix spells really blow everyone away and they can compete with a BLM on parser (assuming such damage could be parsed). Then it'd be like SMN in that they don't get anything really damaging until late in the levels.

And like smn in the sense that it would fail in exp or merit parties. It would be ok up to 40/41 when whm/rdms get haste and refresh. After that...

[evilpaul]

The only real drawback I see for SCH so far as a mainjob is that no Haste means it won't bump a WHM or RDM out of a merit party slot. So, it would be another job that's not really sought after for EXP. Slapping on /WHM would let it heal pretty effectively though.

I'm very skeptical that using the White/Black Grimoires will actually add spells to your list. I do, however, think it sounds pretty likely that the last Black and White strategems learned will bump spells up one tier.

The DoT spells will most likely be 32hp/tick+ like a strong mob's DoT spell damage, and assuming they can be landed somewhat reliably that would be very nice on things that aren't sleepable to start with and/or have an auto-regen. The mention that they are dependent on weather for their strength makes me think you could probably have four on like the elemental DoTs, but only one would be very strong. Particularly if they do 0 initial damage and give the target 0 TP. (I'm sure people would love that at Khaimera.) If you're still kiting Kirin you could potentially give a BLM party windy weather 100% of the time and negate it's auto regen.

Plus, with the Earth weather spell you get Gaiters for 50k.

It looks pretty awful as a BLM sub though which is disappointing. I don't think it's the pile of crap some people are making it out to be though it'll be a job that's useful situationally just not the ZOMGNEWSAM bandwagon job (or BRD replacement).

[lost071]

We'll have to see how it is when it comes out. I still have some hope that having Dark Arts or Light Arts up will allow you to have tier IV nukes, na spells, and raise II. I'm gonna try to find the interview but I could have sworn that SE said that there will be some magic will only be accessible while you have the correct grimoire active. Maybe the list that we currently have is the spell list that is active at all times, or the spell list when you do not have either JA active.

[Lordwafik]

We'll have to see how it is when it comes out. I still have some hope that having Dark Arts or Light Arts up will allow you to have tier IV nukes, na spells, and raise II. I'm gonna try to find the interview but I could have sworn that SE said that there will be some magic will only be accessible while you have the correct grimoire active. Maybe the list that we currently have is the spell list that is active at all times, or the spell list when you do not have either JA active.

Ray of hope!

It's true, the only thing we can see atm is the spells that a scholar learns via scrolls, not spells that can suddenly come alive from reaching level X and using grimoire X. It's a possibility but I won't hold my breath.

[LD]

Barely get Hasted in PTs anyway, I don't really see the problem. ;/

Even if Scholar got Haste, it was never really going to replace RDM without at least Refresh. If Hastega was a big deal, people would like SMNs more. The MP cost halving ability is a 1 shot for a max of 3(?) times. Even if it could have it on for each cast, Scholar wouldn't have the MP reservoir of a RDM, simply because of the job's REAL defining trait: Convert.

Personally, I think it's very likely that Grimoire could unlock spells for Scholar at certain levels. The given spell list could just be what a Scholar can use at any given time and using Arts to specialize your actions is exactly what SE said it was going for with Scholar. That, and the fact that it inexplicably had R2 at level 60... At the very least, it means that the job's spell list isn't yet complete.

[Maksudyst]

I've been wondering how this will work as a sub. If I'm not mistaken, someone said that while the SCH is in "Dark Arts" mode, its enfeebling, elemental, and dark magic skills were all raised. Will this do anything to the skills of a character who has scholar set as a SJ? Think of what this could do for oh say BLM or RDM. A+ skill Enfeebling or Elemental then Dark Arts on top of that (not to mention merits, and gear). Sorry if I missed this earlier in the thread.

[chesh]

I've been wondering how this will work as a sub. If I'm not mistaken, someone said that while the SCH is in "Dark Arts" mode, its enfeebling, elemental, and dark magic skills were all raised. Will this do anything to the skills of a character who has scholar set as a SJ? Think of what this could do for oh say BLM or RDM. A+ skill Enfeebling or Elemental then Dark Arts on top of that (not to mention merits, and gear). Sorry if I missed this earlier in the thread.

Which will be nice for rdm, sure, but the last thing blm needs when they're subbing something without any defensive capabilities is the ability to do more damage. Feh!

[Yomjo]

Been said before, it's possible the grimoires open up spells you don't need the scroll for. Just sayin' reserve strong opinions for a few days, people.

[Lordender]

if sch cannot haste on the whm side it will suffer the same fate as blu/whm did which is fully capable of mainhealing but doesn't get invites to merits because it can't be a realiable haster.

I am really hoping there is more to SCH than what we saw in yesterday's patch *crosses fingers*

[Lunais]

Ray of hope!

It's true, the only thing we can see atm is the spells that a scholar learns via scrolls, not spells that can suddenly come alive from reaching level X and using grimoire X. It's a possibility but I won't hold my breath.

I better start praying that this comes true. It would be quite interesting if you could only use certain spells under the effects of a certain Grimoire, forcing you to change about in battle and not just lolLight Art for healing...but otherwise Scholar is kinda boring.

[BRP]

I wonder how effective these weather spells will be on SMN relic.

[tessy cat]

I could be interpreting this wrong (and I hope I am), but even if the separate arts offers up a more expansive spell list, it doesn't seem like it's going to be any more worthwhile as a subjob. If that's how people are explaining stoneskin wearing, as BLM/SCH you could either choose to have defensive buffs in exchange for a hit to casting times/MP cost/skill levels, or no buffs and the perks. It sounds like it might be situationally useful for RDM, and to a much, much lesser extent WHM. I'm kind of disappointed since they built up so much hype about it being a great new mage sub.

I'm still hoping that the spell list isn't definite or there's some kind of trick that we just don't know about yet. I thought it looked fairly interesting as a main job--until today. Without haste and/or refresh (or native enfeebling spells), it sounds like it's going to be a dud for parties past 50. As it stands, BLU and even PUP can make competent healers, but people rarely utilize them because they can't haste. Even SMN is a better backline alternative with their large MP pool and buffs. I guess SCH can nuke, but (from the looks of it) it won't be as good as BLM, and even if it was, BLM is mainly a solo job from AU exp onward. The new mobs could potentially change TP burn mentality if there's enough reward to exp in WotG areas, but basing off of what was added with this update it doesn't look like it.

At least SCH & DNC will be complimentary in the sense that the two combined could function well even without refresh, and DNC has a form of hastega. Even so, it won't beat out WHM/RDM/SMN and BRD/COR combo in ideal setups. Again though, I hope to be proven wrong once the expansion actually hits, or that further updates will change the dynamic as it appears now.

[spooky]

Scholar not having Blnk or Stoneskin makes it utterly useless as a BLM sub, Spells costing less MP and casting being reduced means very little when you are face down (or up if you are a giraffe) in the dirt dead as a dodo.

I can see it useful for RDM solo and WHM.

Spooky will you join me in the BLM QQ?

Both Rocl and Kuno warned me that if I did it any more I'd get banned lol; so I really had better not. >_>
I had high hopes for SCH, as people have said it really sounded like the /SAM of mages. Looks like it's not ment to be, unless your WHM I guess.
My advice to everyone is don't play this, don't even unlock it, then maybe they'll make it better. It seems really 1/2 finished to me.

EDIT: I want a custom title - QQing about BLM since 2006 :(

[ruf]

Just a question: did they ever say SCH would be a great mage subjob or just a great mage *support* job? I may have overlooked it, but I just remember seeing support personally.

[Khamsin]

I wonder how effective these weather spells will be on SMN relic.

Probably would cause -3 perpetuation to a SMN wearing a horn.

[kuronosan]

Both Rocl and Kuno warned me that if I did it any more I'd get banned lol; so I really had better not. >_>
I had high hopes for SCH, as people have said it really sounded like the /SAM of mages. Looks like it's not ment to be, unless your WHM I guess.
My advice to everyone is don't play this, don't even unlock it, then maybe they'll make it better. It seems really 1/2 finished to me.

Duly noted. Now shut the fuck up.

[lost071]

Just a question: did they ever say SCH would be a great mage subjob or just a great mage *support* job? I may have overlooked it, but I just remember seeing support personally.

Um... looking at the current spell list I would say no chance in hell tbh. I mean with the exception of the weather spells, theres nothing on that list that warrants them to be a support job.

[Meian]

I am a bit confused by when SE says this...

"Two new jobs, dancer and scholar, are now available.
Specific quests must be completed in order to obtain each job.
*The limit break quest "Shattering Stars" will be implemented for dancer and scholar in the next version update.
In order to raise the dancer or scholar job above level 71 before the next version update, it will be necessary to first complete "Shattering Stars" with a different job."



I take it they are there but you can't touch it until expansion and when unlocked. Although I wished they worded it better.

Also, Yoona from KI posted this that could be the quest:

A Little Knowledge Client: Erlene & Ulbrecht (Eldieme Necropolis, Batallia Downs)
Summary:
You have been given the chance
to study the grimoire used by the
famous Schultz School of Martial
Theory.
Your first task is to bring Erlene
twelve sheets of vellum.