Dancer discussion

[Beckwin]

SA from /thf would only ensure the first hit of DE to crit, so I wouldn't expect that kind of damage.

[Neosutra]

SA from /thf would only ensure the first hit of DE to crit, so I wouldn't expect that kind of damage.

True, my mistake.

All and all DNC seems kinda ballanced, you trade alot of utility at no mp cost for having to give the mob TP and not being able to WS as much or at all. Im going to get one of our salvage members to sub dnc this week and see how much it helps out the mages on keeping everyone alive.

[Shadowhusky]

SA from /thf would only ensure the first hit of DE to crit, so I wouldn't expect that kind of damage.

SA on THF main is the same way. First hit to crit/land 100%

[Godlywargod]

SA from /thf would only ensure the first hit of DE to crit, so I wouldn't expect that kind of damage.

SA on THF main is the same way. First hit to crit/land 100%

SA on THF main also give a base damage addition from dex.......

[Shadowhusky]

SA from /thf would only ensure the first hit of DE to crit, so I wouldn't expect that kind of damage.

SA on THF main is the same way. First hit to crit/land 100%

SA on THF main also give a base damage addition from dex.......

That wasn't what I was talking about though, but yes ;x

[Tsutsumiko]

I think that basically SE limits the jobs dagger selection is because SE doesn't want this job to be a DD. Some people seem to think that DNC is a DD for some reason, and its just not.

If they didn't want DNC to be a DD, they could have withheld all of the decent dagger WS, not limited it's dagger usage. If they want DNC to expend decent amounts of tp to do their job effectively, they could have at least allowed the job to use a Mercurial Kris...

As far as I can see, DNC will HAVE to "dd" to get tp effectively (I doubt /SAM will be real solution, and reverse flourish can only go so far), and I doubt DNC will ever be using WS's since their job abilities rely on it so... it seems backwards to me that we have access to decent WS's yet can't use a MK...

I'm inclined to agree. In my first 40 or so levels of DNC, I would much rather have crappy WS than crappy weapon selection. I mean so far dagger has been a joke outside of Fed Kukris. Lack of MK is also pretty much crap as well.

I NEVER find myself using Weapon Skills unless I have a full stock of Finishing Moves ready to fire off with Reverse Flourish. And even then the damage is pitiful. I just save my TP. I've noticed that the JP DNC players I XP with also save their TP. I only see the NA players usually using the WSes and then I see them hit for about 20 damage, if that. It just seems far more efficient to save your TP. My parties hit higher chains when I use TP for healing and enfeebles over WSes. XPWatch shows this pretty accurately too.

Weapons > WS (for DNC) :-/

[Godlywargod]

SA from /thf would only ensure the first hit of DE to crit, so I wouldn't expect that kind of damage.

SA on THF main is the same way. First hit to crit/land 100%

SA on THF main also give a base damage addition from dex.......

That wasn't what I was talking about though, but yes ;x

Their discussion was that /thf wont add a lot of damage to your ws because it only gives a 100% crit on the first hit..... you made it seem like thats all SA did of thf main.

edit for discussion >.>

[Iggystar]

How many levels will Bone Knife +1 last? (Mainhand/Offhand)

[Anakron]

How many levels will Bone Knife +1 last? (Mainhand/Offhand)

I browsed the AH for daggers as well, and it seems like they'll last all the way until Behemoths unless you're forced to upgrade because of hitting for 0. Depending on party/alliance needs, the 5 ACC might even make up for the +14DMG output since nobody's really expecting damage from a DNC. At least that was my plan; I have no experience with daggers in general, so there may be better, non-AH options out there.

[archibaldcrane]

How many levels will Bone Knife +1 last? (Mainhand/Offhand)

I browsed the AH for daggers as well, and it seems like they'll last all the way until Behemoths unless you're forced to upgrade because of hitting for 0.

Hitting for 0 isn't a factor of Base WDMG - it's solely a factor of attack vs. enemy defense. Given that Bone Knife+1 gives +5 attack, it's slightly less likely to hit for 0 than even a weapon of significantly higher base damage (Like Matron's Knife for example). That being said, the selection is very similar to Thief for daggers that you'd want to use going up to endgame - Darksteel Kukri+1 and Cermet Kukri+1 are both usable for DNC. After that, Behemoth Knife+1 and Matron's Knife are your best non-Jambiya options - with Adder Jambiya+1 being by far and away the best option (good luck with the Star Sapphire and HQing it).

[Delekii]

How many levels will Bone Knife +1 last? (Mainhand/Offhand)

I browsed the AH for daggers as well, and it seems like they'll last all the way until Behemoths unless you're forced to upgrade because of hitting for 0.

Hitting for 0 isn't a factor of Base WDMG - it's solely a factor of attack vs. enemy defense. Given that Bone Knife+1 gives +5 attack, it's slightly less likely to hit for 0 than even a weapon of significantly higher base damage (Like Matron's Knife for example). That being said, the selection is very similar to Thief for daggers that you'd want to use going up to endgame - Darksteel Kukri+1 and Cermet Kukri+1 are both usable for DNC. After that, Behemoth Knife+1 and Matron's Knife are your best non-Jambiya options - with Adder Jambiya+1 being by far and away the best option (good luck with the Star Sapphire and HQing it).

If you have negative fstr then base damage certainly is a factor of hitting for 0.

[Falisa]

I didn't see anyone else post this but something thats been annoying me while leveling DNC. I dunno if its a glitch or it happens with everything else (I dont work with additional effects very often!) but whenever Im using Curing Waltz or something like that, and I attack the mob in the middle of the JA, Drain samba doesnt proc. :\ Would definatly help out in the long run with soloing if that didnt happen because it happens a few times when Im fighting stuff.

[ruf]

noticed that too, but I think my HP still goes up by a few even if I don't see the effect, not totally certain.

[Falisa]

Oh I never thought to actually look at my HP when it happens. I'll do that next time to see if I actually gain some HP.

[Rionel]

Another interesting find on Dancer (from Allakhazham, yet again):

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/jobs.h...2;num=8;page=1

So, you can stack Sneak Attack with Quickstep(-Evasion), Box Step(-Defense), Stutter Step(-Magic Defense), Desperate Flourish(Gravity) and Violent Flourish(Stun) to make them all 100% hit rate... or so the thread says anyway.

Hopefully they're right! I admit it sounds a little exciting to hear about Steps and some Flourishes working with Sneak Attack but, I hope the 1 minute timer won't be too long to make it not useful. Though it's all situational, right?

[Lyramion]

Ghetto faint?

[Delekii]

Ghetto faint?

the fact that the eva/def down steps can be stacked up to 5 times leads me to believe that individually they are probably quite weak..

[chichicha]

I'm inclined to agree. In my first 40 or so levels of DNC, I would much rather have crappy WS than crappy weapon selection. I mean so far dagger has been a joke outside of Fed Kukris. Lack of MK is also pretty much crap as well.

I NEVER find myself using Weapon Skills unless I have a full stock of Finishing Moves ready to fire off with Reverse Flourish. And even then the damage is pitiful. I just save my TP. I've noticed that the JP DNC players I XP with also save their TP. I only see the NA players usually using the WSes and then I see them hit for about 20 damage, if that. It just seems far more efficient to save your TP. My parties hit higher chains when I use TP for healing and enfeebles over WSes. XPWatch shows this pretty accurately too.

Weapons > WS (for DNC) :-/

I play DNC, whenever there is main healer, I do spam Cyclone. At lvl 44-46, dmg is around 90-180. I spam Steps too, whenever 4 steps I have, I do spam again Reverse to get 46TP back. I can usually load 2 x Cyclone in one fight. I like spamming lmao.
Only problem, just can't use Cyclone in pack camp with mobs, but so far, I haven't been to any camp with other mobs around. Hmm... also, when BRD pulled back second mobs, slept it next to us, he/she hated me LOL

I can see that SE is trying to balance things out, they won't let DNC have MK, as I don't have problem to get TP. However, I am a lucky taru with Peacock Amulet and others acc gears ^.^;

the fact that the eva/def down steps can be stacked up to 5 times leads me to believe that individually they are probably quite weak..

I remembered I read at somewhere, each steps is like reducing their eva, def, magic def -5.
I did a "Kinda" manaburn party, BLM and Scholar likes the Magic Def Debuff, they said their magic never get resisted.

p.s. I tried SA + Viper Bite, it's lamed... even though I stacked with all DEX gears and etc, still getting two figure dmg only (I am Thief75)

[ruf]

I'm kinda thinking of TPing as /healing and WSing as casting holy, except it uses all of your TP (no, I don't have reverse flourish yet). Only plan on using a WS if I want a chuckle or if it's the last mob of a party.

[archibaldcrane]

If you have negative fstr then base damage certainly is a factor of hitting for 0.

Only at the point where you'd otherwise be hitting for 1 with a higher base damage dagger, and for the purposes of this discussion - comparing Bone Knife +1 to anything that may be better (without obviously being so), you're looking at the 23 base damage Cermet (or Darksteel) Kukri +1 as the "best competitor", and from what I can tell it isn't possible to find a situation of STR and Attack with 18 WDMG, vs. same STR and Attack-5 with 23 WDMG, where you'd be hitting for a minimum of 1 with the latter and not with the former. However, I can find situations where +5 attack from Bone Knife +1 allows for a minimum attack of 1, while +5 Base Damage from Cermet Kukri+1 still allows for a minimum attack of 0. (lvl 60, 50 STR, 395 base attack vs. lvl 72, 85 VIT, 374 defense mob)

Base damage is such an incredibly minor consideration when hitting for 0 for TP gain that it can effectively be completely disregarded in this Dancer argument, given the possible options to be considered.

/mathoff