Dancer discussion

[lost071]

i have feeling dnc roll when it comes out will be regain

I really doubt it. Unless they give DNC a new native regain JA or JT. COR rolls usually enhance an aspect of a job. SAM roll gives store TP. They also just sometimes enhance things that jobs are known for. For example bard's roll gives -interruption down. While BRDs may not have a trait that does this, one thing about songs that are different then other magics is that you don't get interrupted when you get hit. I guess we'll find out next month.

[Xanthe]

i have feeling dnc roll when it comes out will be regain

I really doubt it. Unless they give DNC a new native regain JA or JT. COR rolls usually enhance an aspect of a job. SAM roll gives store TP. They also just sometimes enhance things that jobs are known for. For example bard's roll gives -interruption down. While BRDs may not have a trait that does this, one thing about songs that are different then other magics is that you don't get interrupted when you get hit. I guess we'll find out next month.

DRGs (and their wyverns) aren't exactly known for their magical accuracy and attack.

[Lordwafik]

i have feeling dnc roll when it comes out will be regain

I really doubt it. Unless they give DNC a new native regain JA or JT. COR rolls usually enhance an aspect of a job. SAM roll gives store TP. They also just sometimes enhance things that jobs are known for. For example bard's roll gives -interruption down. While BRDs may not have a trait that does this, one thing about songs that are different then other magics is that you don't get interrupted when you get hit. I guess we'll find out next month.

DRGs (and their wyverns) aren't exactly known for their magical accuracy and attack.

But they are known for being useless, precisely what that roll is!

*chortle*

[Lucavi]

DRGs (and their wyverns) aren't exactly known for their magical accuracy and attack.

I'll see you Deep breathing and raise you Strafe! Because SE loves drgs so much, they enhanced properties of the job that can only normally be raised AFTER the job is 75!

[Vyvian]

Can anyone close an SC off of Wild Flourish, or do you have to close it yourself?

[Acadi]

Just dinged 45 dancer last night and had time to kill so I went to test Haste Samba. As you know Samba recast is 1min, and the annoying thing about haste samba is its duration is also only 1 minute so you will have to recast it whenever samba is back up.

Using a Flame Degen + 1 (I have sword merits) Delay 218 -- What I did was time how long it took me to do 10 swings of my sword with and without haste. But anyway here is my data:

No Haste
33.01s
33.51s
33.26s
33.58s
33.19s
Average of 33.31s

Haste Samba
31.55s
31.80s
31.29s
31.66s
31.85s
Average of 31.63s

Difference of: 1.68s
Haste Effect = 1.68s / 33.31s = 5.04%

So I really do believe Haste Samba is 5% now. Since it is a daze effect, like drain samba, I think this would stack with rdm/whm haste and march, but I am NOT SURE. Someone else can test that. Oh, and don't sue me if I messed up somehow.

[Max™]

Can anyone close an SC off of Wild Flourish, or do you have to close it yourself?

Anyone can, as Penta and Rampage can't be gotten by Dnc, and /Dnc doesn't have Wild Flourish last I checked.

Also, 5% ain't bad, 10% would be a lot nicer though.

[Anakron]

What do you guys think of Federation Kukri vs. Corrosive Kukri? Basically 3 acc, 12 less delay, 7 attack outside nation vs. the Add. Effect: Weaken's Defense...which I recall doesn't proc very often. I'm leaning towards the Federation Kukri myself, but anybody disagree?

[Eaglestrike]

DNC roll is going to be Haste.

[Vyvian]

Can anyone close an SC off of Wild Flourish, or do you have to close it yourself?

Anyone can, as Penta and Rampage can't be gotten by Dnc, and /Dnc doesn't have Wild Flourish last I checked.

Also, 5% ain't bad, 10% would be a lot nicer though.

Good point, lol.

[Lebzile]

Has anyone (37+ preferably) tried tanking as DNC? I mean, /war, tacos, an actual tank setup? I'm just wondering how well a DNC can hold hate. I've tanked a few pts 15-18 spamming Curing Waltz, but mobs hit like pussies at those levels.

Just wondering about the potency of the Voke Flourish honestly, like if it's as good as regular voke or what. e_e

[Wizerd]

Has anyone (37+ preferably) tried tanking as DNC? I mean, /war, tacos, an actual tank setup? I'm just wondering how well a DNC can hold hate. I've tanked a few pts 15-18 spamming Curing Waltz, but mobs hit like pussies at those levels.

Just wondering about the potency of the Voke Flourish honestly, like if it's as good as regular voke or what. e_e

I'm pretty sure it's the exact same as Provoke, but of course Kaeko's testing could probably figure it out. Would be best to go /NIN for tanking over /WAR, I think.

[Lebzile]

Has anyone (37+ preferably) tried tanking as DNC? I mean, /war, tacos, an actual tank setup? I'm just wondering how well a DNC can hold hate. I've tanked a few pts 15-18 spamming Curing Waltz, but mobs hit like pussies at those levels.

Just wondering about the potency of the Voke Flourish honestly, like if it's as good as regular voke or what. e_e

I'm pretty sure it's the exact same as Provoke, but of course Kaeko's testing could probably figure it out. Would be best to go /NIN for tanking over /WAR, I think.

I was thinking of maybe a DEF/EVA setup at 50+, which could theoretically work.Defender gives a pretty nice bonus to defense and with tacos I think it's possible to get def of a 50dnc to get in the lower-mid 400s(maybe 500s?). Then start stacking some +VIT gear to help close the gap, seems plausible in my opinion.

Can't log in at the moment, but does DNC have any shield skill at all? Haven't really checked or thought about it till now. I'm really only trying to explore all aspects of DNC, I don't see why DNC would be given a voke without being able to do some type of tanking. Unless SE siriusly intended the job as "sub job onry" like they said for SCH.

Need Ruke to get 75dnc so he can throw some Dring on that bitch and tank some HNMs. 8)

[Tomiko]

I've been curious as to the tanking potential as well. The main limiting factor will obviously be the neccessity of TP, if that's not an issue, then I can see it as doing rather well since it would have a Provoke ability as well as a Stun Ability in addition to the cures. I could easily see 2 Dancers co-tanking without the neccessity of a healing job.

No shield skill though.

[Lebzile]

Same, I mean I can pretty much lock hate on myself at 18 by spamming curing waltz, 20tp is a joke to get and it has the potential to have hate gaining as a PLD almost, no sentinel kind of hate, but I do forsee it as being a possible meripo tank.

Although I do not seeing it as a tank for HNM like Wyrms or Khimaera where gaining TP would be hard without 2 or 3 SAMs in your pt feeding you a shikokyo every 10minutes.

[Xanthe]

What do you guys think of Federation Kukri vs. Corrosive Kukri? Basically 3 acc, 12 less delay, 7 attack outside nation vs. the Add. Effect: Weaken's Defense...which I recall doesn't proc very often. I'm leaning towards the Federation Kukri myself, but anybody disagree?

Definitely the Federation Kukri. You're going to want all the accuracy you can get.

[Rellikard]

Just wondering about the potency of the Voke Flourish honestly, like if it's as good as regular voke or what. e_e

Animated Flourish seems like it's Provoke Lite. Using it I can get hate off of anyone, but if someone else provokes they'll take hate off of me. Also, someone who has a lot of built up hate seem to pull hate within about 5-10 seconds after the AF though the initial AF rips it off of them. So it seems like enough to assist in grabbing hate long enough for someone to cast shadows, but that's about it.

[Xanthe]

Just wondering about the potency of the Voke Flourish honestly, like if it's as good as regular voke or what. e_e

Animated Flourish seems like it's Provoke Lite. Using it I can get hate off of anyone, but if someone else provokes they'll take hate off of me. Also, someone who has a lot of built up hate seem to pull hate within about 5-10 seconds after the AF though the initial AF rips it off of them. So it seems like enough to assist in grabbing hate long enough for someone to cast shadows, but that's about it.

That's how Provoke works as well though. Provoke (and Animated Flourish) both add VE (Volatile Enmity) which decays at a set rate of -60/sec. Provoke adds 1800 VE (varies with +/- enmity gear), though Animated Flourish has not been quantified on Kanican's LJ tests as of yet. Assuming they are equal, it's only natural that someone can pull hate 5-10 seconds after an Animated Flourish as your VE has decayed by 300-600 in that time. It's also natural that if someone Provokes even 1 second after you they will get hate, assuming CE (Cumulative Enmity) is equal between the two of you. See the Enmity Testing entries on http://kanican.livejournal.com for more information on how enmity works and a very interesting read.

[chichicha]

Just wondering about the potency of the Voke Flourish honestly, like if it's as good as regular voke or what. e_e

Animated Flourish seems like it's Provoke Lite. Using it I can get hate off of anyone, but if someone else provokes they'll take hate off of me. Also, someone who has a lot of built up hate seem to pull hate within about 5-10 seconds after the AF though the initial AF rips it off of them. So it seems like enough to assist in grabbing hate long enough for someone to cast shadows, but that's about it.

That's how Provoke works as well though. Provoke (and Animated Flourish) both add VE (Volatile Enmity) which decays at a set rate of -60/sec. Provoke adds 1800 VE (varies with +/- enmity gear), though Animated Flourish has not been quantified on Kanican's LJ tests as of yet. Assuming they are equal, it's only natural that someone can pull hate 5-10 seconds after an Animated Flourish as your VE has decayed by 300-600 in that time. It's also natural that if someone Provokes even 1 second after you they will get hate, assuming CE (Cumulative Enmity) is equal between the two of you. See the Enmity Testing entries on http://kanican.livejournal.com for more information on how enmity works and a very interesting read.

I don't think they are equal.

Did a test - Both naked, both taru, both not merit on Enmity at all. Both not engage (i.e. not hitting mobs at all)
I am DNC/NIN, He is WAR/NIN

First Mob -
I used Animated Flourish. Then, My friend provoked. He win. He has hate.
I used Animated Flourish again, I can't get hate back.

Second Mob -
My friend Provoked. I used Animated Flourish, I couldn't win hate.

Just a small test, someone might want to test more.

However, whenever I used Cure/ Curaga, Mobs turned to me like immediately.

Besides, I wondered.... whether Building Flourish is working like Sneak Attack....
i.e. only works on non-elements WS.

I ding'd 50, happy to have it. Used "Building Flourish" then "Cyclone" ... I don't see any enhancement on dmg. Did a few test ... still doesn't see any good +dmg on my WS. I haven't tried on WS without Elements though.

[Wizerd]

Has anyone come across anything that Healing Waltz won't get rid of? I tried on Blind and Poison and they work fine, as well as anything normal Erase erases. I want to know about Petrify - I don't think I missed anything in this thread.