Dancer discussion

[ruf]

I've noticed Animated Flourish to be a good deal weaker than provoke, too. No specific testing, but I've pulled with animated and it's gone after the someone who casted blind on the mob before it even got to camp. Not sure if this means the hate decays much faster than voke or if it's just a lower VE overall, but yeah. Provoke > AF alone for getting and holding hate.

[Xanthe]

I've noticed Animated Flourish to be a good deal weaker than provoke, too. No specific testing, but I've pulled with animated and it's gone after the someone who casted blind on the mob before it even got to camp. Not sure if this means the hate decays much faster than voke or if it's just a lower VE overall, but yeah. Provoke > AF alone for getting and holding hate.

VE decays at a constant -60/sec no matter what. It might actually be the case that Animated Flourish gives less VE than Provoke, but yeah, needs testing. For reference, Blind gives 640 VE and Provoke gives 1800 VE. Given the VE decay rate Blind would have to be cast after the 20-second mark from Provoke usage in order to pull hate. Assuming Animated Flourish and Blind were the only actions used on the mob, we can similarly find the threshold for Animated Flourish's VE.

pVE - Provoke's VE over time
blindVE - Blind's VE at cast time
tfu - the time from Provoke usage in seconds

pVE	blindVE	tfu
1800		640		0
1740		640		1
1680		640		2
1620		640		3
1560		640		4
1500		640		5
1440		640		6
1380		640		7
1320		640		8
1260		640		9
1200		640		10
1140		640		11
1080		640		12
1020		640		13
960		 640		14
900		 640		15
840		 640		16
780		 640		17
720		 640		18
660		 640		19
600		 640		20
540		 640		21
480		 640		22
420		 640		23
360		 640		24
300		 640		25
240		 640		26
180		 640		27
120		 640		28
60		  640		29
0		   640		30

As you can see, Blind will have more VE than Provoke after the 20-second mark.

It was claimed that Blind pulled hate off of Animated Flourish, so we can approximate it's maximum VE based on time from use given the formula afVE_MAX = blindVE + (tfu+60) - 1.

afVE_MAX - the maximum possible VE of Animated Flourish
blindVE - Blind's VE at cast time
tfu - the time from Animated Flourish usage in seconds

afVE_MAX = blindVE + (tfu*60) - 1

afVE_MAX blindVE	tfu
639		 640		0
699		 640		1
759		 640		2
819		 640		3
879		 640		4
939		 640		5
999		 640		6
1059		640		7
1119		640		8
1179		640		9
1239		640		10
1299		640		11
1359		640		12
1419		640		13
1479		640		14
1539		640		15
1599		640		16
1659		640		17
1719		640		18
1779		640		19
1839		640		20
1899		640		21
1959		640		22
2019		640		23
2079		640		24
2139		640		25
2199		640		26
2259		640		27
2319		640		28
2379		640		29
2439		640		30

If you can provide the exact time from Animated Flourish usage that Blind was cast you can pick the maximum possible (not actual) VE of Animated Flourish e.g. if Blind was cast 10 seconds after Animated Flourish was used and immediately pulled hate then Animated Flourish's VE could be no more than 1239. You can then close the lower bound by finding the max tfu at which Blind does not yet pull hate, giving a good approximation of afVE. Forgive me if any of my math is off, I'll admit I haven't done a whole lot with enmity calculations.

[ruf]

I'll test it with some friends. While not noting it down or being specific at all, it was about 2/3 of the time after a pull, I did lose shadows to attacks or took damage on the pulls, and it was usually on longer pulls (though never close to 20 seconds from the time of flourish to the cast of blind), so my results are all kinds of off and imprecise.

[Xanthe]

I'll test it with some friends. While not noting it down or being specific at all, it was about 2/3 of the time after a pull, I did lose shadows to attacks or took damage on the pulls, and it was usually on longer pulls (though never close to 20 seconds from the time of flourish to the cast of blind), so my results are all kinds of off and imprecise.

Damage/shadows taken wouldn't matter for VE. Looking forward to seeing more on this.

[Nyiri]

Has anyone come across anything that Healing Waltz won't get rid of? I tried on Blind and Poison and they work fine, as well as anything normal Erase erases. I want to know about Petrify - I don't think I missed anything in this thread.

I tried it on Petrify while XPing on lizards in the Crawler's Nest: no go. A pity, I was excited to have levelled the first subjob that could remove Petrify.

It's worked on Poison, Paralysis, Evasion Down, Strength Down, and Slow for me so far, though, so I can't really complain.

[Hige]

Has anyone come across anything that Healing Waltz won't get rid of? I tried on Blind and Poison and they work fine, as well as anything normal Erase erases. I want to know about Petrify - I don't think I missed anything in this thread.

I tried it on Petrify while XPing on lizards in the Crawler's Nest: no go. A pity, I was excited to have levelled the first subjob that could remove Petrify.

It's worked on Poison, Paralysis, Evasion Down, Strength Down, and Slow for me so far, though, so I can't really complain.

From FF11wiki:

"??????????????????????
????????????????"

"Except for Petrify, Disease, Amnesia, Terror, erases 1 (negative) effect. (This includes every "down" status effect.)"

My Japanese is a little rusty, one point of interest is that it doesn't specify plague (like from Tiamat), only disease (undead hound). So either it hasn't been tested yet or it may work on plague.

[kuronosan]

For self-targeting, I could see it not removing Petrify, Terror, or Amnesia... as all of those status effects would prevent you from using the dance in the first place.

[ruf]

orz, it may be a little bit before *I* do the testing, only other account I have access to has +enmity merits.

[Nyiri]

For self-targeting, I could see it not removing Petrify, Terror, or Amnesia... as all of those status effects would prevent you from using the dance in the first place.

Healing Waltz can target any party member.

[kuronosan]

I know that. I'm referring to the post which says that the JP otherwiki says that it doesn't remove those status effects... other than Disease, all of the status effects listed are effects that prevent abilities from being used.

[Nyiri]

I know that. I'm referring to the post which says that the JP otherwiki says that it doesn't remove those status effects... other than Disease, all of the status effects listed are effects that prevent abilities from being used.

Why should that prevent a person who does not have that effect from removing the effect from another person?

A moot point, given that Healing Waltz, like Erase, won't fix those effects, but it seems a nonsensical approach to the question, given that the dancer herself needn't be the one afflicted with the ability-use-preventing effect.

[Toth]

given that the dancer herself

Uh oh lol

[Nyiri]

Just finished my first "dancer-burn" party. No kidding. Party setup: dnc dnc dnc dnc dnc. We had a scholar in the sixth position for about an hour, too. XP was fast, easy, and safe, on the various goblins at the E Altepa outpost. Went from level 41 to level 43 in about two hours. Very delicious.

And here I was worried that there being several other dancers in my level range all seeking at the same time might be a *bad* thing!

[Yoshimiko]

Still no word on whether or not haste samba is uncapped?

[Tulun]

Still no word on whether or not haste samba is uncapped?

I would be very curious to hear the answer to this......

If Haste Samba especially stacks with Haste + March, even at 5%, it would give drks a theoretical 98.3% reduction.

That would be so batshit crazy...

[Yoshimiko]

Still no word on whether or not haste samba is uncapped?

I would be very curious to hear the answer to this......

If Haste Samba especially stacks with Haste + March, even at 5%, it would give drks a theoretical 98.3% reduction.

That would be so batshit crazy...

About a 4x increase in damage. (Delays with B.Z. & the -2% offhand: 470 normal, 31.51 with 93.3%, 7.9968 with 98.8%)

[kuronosan]

I know that. I'm referring to the post which says that the JP otherwiki says that it doesn't remove those status effects... other than Disease, all of the status effects listed are effects that prevent abilities from being used.

Why should that prevent a person who does not have that effect from removing the effect from another person?

A moot point, given that Healing Waltz, like Erase, won't fix those effects, but it seems a nonsensical approach to the question, given that the dancer herself needn't be the one afflicted with the ability-use-preventing effect.

Jesus christ dude... learn how to read. In the JP wiki it says those status efffects aren't removed. The only instance that they wouldn't be removed is if the dancer itself was inflicted with them. Nowhere did I say that the dancer couldn't use it on other people.

[tufrabza]

just a bit of info, but with 4 h2h merits, and a cestus belt (/mnk), dnc does get raging fists at 41

[Koeta]

just a bit of info, but with 4 h2h merits, and a cestus belt (/mnk), dnc does get raging fists at 41

yes, yes it does 8)
http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/4...wotg007pl8.jpg

[Toth]

I'd like to mention that a duo or even trio of DNCs/NIN make fantastic tanks for any party setup (up to 41 so far anyway). Animated Flourish and their dances generate quite a fair amount of enmity and I have been able to nuke comfortably as SCH when they are the main tanks. There is also no downtime :D