Dancer discussion

[Wizerd]

So, soboro sam/dnc is fucking fun. Did a pt from 73-74 with a whm, four other DD, and me on sam/dnc. I kinda spammed Divine Waltz and kept Drain Samba II up and the whm hasted and did regen. Not the fastest party I've ever been in, but with soboro, haste gear, haste, and meditate I could WS everytime I was at 100tp or so and still spam dances as needed. Still parsed second under the monk.

That's pretty damn awesome


I must say, I am very impressed by DNC as both a main and sub job. This is the most expertly crafted job since ROTZ imo. It just flows and works so nicely.

I also have a question: Think DNC could work on traditionally BLM-centric HNMs with a subtle blow build for stutter step, status cures, and occasional co-tanking?

I don't think the RotZ jobs were crafted that well. SAM has had a lot of improvements and adjustments since implementation before it was really "good", DRG kinda still sucks, and NIN wasn't supposed to be what it is today. Dancer however, is exactly what they expected it to be, and does a very good job at it, so far.

Regarding your question, I think DNC has more Subtle Blow traits than we're seeing, as well as Evasion Bonus. I don't really expect more Accuracy Bonus traits, although it'd be nice. Anyway, the DNC would only have to melee for about 20-30 buffer TP before they could just stay engaged, back turned, and spam Stutter Step every 15 seconds and use Reverse Flourish every 30 seconds (or when they had 4-5 FMs), without giving the mob TP, all the while increasing their own TP (and having the option to try and Stun it with Violent Flourish or Gravity it with Desperate Flourish, or even emergency Cure if the need arises).

So yes, Dancer is very likely gonna be an addition to long lasting monster fights that include BLMs as a good portion of their strategy. With the ability to reduce a mob's Magic Evasion by 13%, pure win.

[neira]

I havent checked this but it came up in a shell conversation, do Sambas benefit just your PT, or your entire Alliance, if mob is CFH does it help every one on the mob? Can you use Waltzs on ppl outside your PT but inside your alliance? If in dynamis where any one can hit the mob, does samba's benefit every one. Reason i'm asking is it debuffs the mob, doesnt do anything specific to your PT, just the ppl who hit the mob after you do.

Easy stuff to check (assuming you're high enough to enter dynamis), i have just never tried (and not high enough to enter dynamis), and i'm at work all day today so will be a long time before i can check it.

[Cylo]

I think "Steps" are the only dances that can affect players out of party. Everything else is party only (correct me if I am wrong please).

[Wizerd]

I think "Steps" are the only dances that can affect players out of party. Everything else is party only (correct me if I am wrong please).

Correct, but Jigs are self-only.

[neira]

thanks for the imput, i think we are going to start testing /DNC out in some end game situations where ninja's have limited use, wich is what spered the initial convo in shell.

[lost071]

So, soboro sam/dnc is fucking fun. Did a pt from 73-74 with a whm, four other DD, and me on sam/dnc. I kinda spammed Divine Waltz and kept Drain Samba II up and the whm hasted and did regen. Not the fastest party I've ever been in, but with soboro, haste gear, haste, and meditate I could WS everytime I was at 100tp or so and still spam dances as needed. Still parsed second under the monk.

That's pretty damn awesome


I must say, I am very impressed by DNC as both a main and sub job. This is the most expertly crafted job since ROTZ imo. It just flows and works so nicely.

I also have a question: Think DNC could work on traditionally BLM-centric HNMs with a subtle blow build for stutter step, status cures, and occasional co-tanking?

I don't think the RotZ jobs were crafted that well. SAM has had a lot of improvements and adjustments since implementation before it was really "good", DRG kinda still sucks, and NIN wasn't supposed to be what it is today. Dancer however, is exactly what they expected it to be, and does a very good job at it, so far.

Regarding your question, I think DNC has more Subtle Blow traits than we're seeing, as well as Evasion Bonus. I don't really expect more Accuracy Bonus traits, although it'd be nice. Anyway, the DNC would only have to melee for about 20-30 buffer TP before they could just stay engaged, back turned, and spam Stutter Step every 15 seconds and use Reverse Flourish every 30 seconds (or when they had 4-5 FMs), without giving the mob TP, all the while increasing their own TP (and having the option to try and Stun it with Violent Flourish or Gravity it with Desperate Flourish, or even emergency Cure if the need arises).

So yes, Dancer is very likely gonna be an addition to long lasting monster fights that include BLMs as a good portion of their strategy. With the ability to reduce a mob's Magic Evasion by 13%, pure win.

The huuuge problem with this is that this is assuming that you won't miss any steps. I'm not sure about you but I'm lvl 42 atm and I have decent acc gear, and i have some dagger merits and I still only land steps 80-90% of the time against exp mobs. I'm going to assume landing a step on a much higher lvl mob is going to be harder and even with good acc is probably going to be about 50% maybe less. THFs who have A- daggers, triple attack, access to the best daggers, etc. have a hard time building up TP on higher lvl mobs, i can't even imagine how its going to be for us. This job is supposed to be a main healer and without a steady source of TP I really just do not see this happening.

[Max™]

I will be shocked if SE doesn't implement a Latent Effect: Regain piece on the AF or some later piece of gear for Dnc, with the Regain triggered by under 40/60% or so Tp.

As far as healing, me and another Dnc/War were just chaining T's effortlessly at 18, and at one point got two T flies, and would have easily killed both if we hadn't started the fight with 40 and 60 TP, respectively.

As it was we killed one, and only reason I died was Cursed Sphere spam at the end of one, and getting a lot more hate than the other from crits.

We always wind up overcuring each other, really gotta work out a system for it, lol.

So no, considering neither of us have even "good" gear for tanking, I don't think keeping a real tank cured up would be too bad unless the party was retardedly overhunting, at which point I'd just leave and go solo for more exp/hour anyway.

[VZX]

Regarding your question, I think DNC has more Subtle Blow traits than we're seeing, as well as Evasion Bonus. I don't really expect more Accuracy Bonus traits, although it'd be nice. Anyway, the DNC would only have to melee for about 20-30 buffer TP before they could just stay engaged, back turned, and spam Stutter Step every 15 seconds and use Reverse Flourish every 30 seconds (or when they had 4-5 FMs), without giving the mob TP, all the while increasing their own TP (and having the option to try and Stun it with Violent Flourish or Gravity it with Desperate Flourish, or even emergency Cure if the need arises).

So yes, Dancer is very likely gonna be an addition to long lasting monster fights that include BLMs as a good portion of their strategy. With the ability to reduce a mob's Magic Evasion by 13%, pure win.

The huuuge problem with this is that this is assuming that you won't miss any steps. I'm not sure about you but I'm lvl 42 atm and I have decent acc gear, and i have some dagger merits and I still only land steps 80-90% of the time against exp mobs. I'm going to assume landing a step on a much higher lvl mob is going to be harder and even with good acc is probably going to be about 50% maybe less. THFs who have A- daggers, triple attack, access to the best daggers, etc. have a hard time building up TP on higher lvl mobs, i can't even imagine how its going to be for us. This job is supposed to be a main healer and without a steady source of TP I really just do not see this happening.

Am I the only one felt that steps has native acc-- ? It seems everytime I want to stick it, it often doesn't let me land it :/

[Lyramion]

RDMs only help heal? RDMs are MUCH MUCH more preferred as healers now a days. They are much more MP efficient then a WHM.

Nothing is more MP efficient than Curing Waltzes matey.

Fixed.

Fixed again.

We can just let the WHMs sub DNC and melee

[BRP]

Except for status heals and haste, Regenga could be the last nail in WHM's meriting coffin. However, it still has status heals and haste, so... :/

It's so odd to me that when a melee's role can be replaced it's no big deal, but when it's a mage the job is doomed.

[neira]

This job is supposed to be a main healer and without a steady source of TP I really just do not see this happening.

Considering that all curative abilities dancer has are on the same cooldown there is no way "in my opinion" that Dancer could main heal an XP PT or seriousely have been intended to be a main healer. I mean, i'm almost 50, and the cooldowns are alrdy kind of lame for the larger healing abilities, and heaven forrbid you have to remove a debuff.

"Oh shit tank has Def Down! ~Healing waltz~ OK, now dont get hit for 15seconds.

Back uphealer/debuffer/Melee DoT (just standing there wacking a mob)

[lost071]

Except for status heals and haste, Regenga could be the last nail in WHM's meriting coffin. However, it still has status heals and haste, so... :/

It's so odd to me that when a melee's role can be replaced it's no big deal, but when it's a mage the job is doomed.

Its not weird at all. In a normal party settup you usually have one healer, one support, a tank and 3 DDs, or 2 supports 1 tank, and 3 DDs. All melee DDs do the same thing more or less in pretty much the same way. The only difference is weapon types and some JAs. Comparing two healers like WHM and DNC on the other hand is different. Lets say somehow DNC can do everything a WHM could and more, that eliminates the one party slot that WHM had.

[LD]

Except for status heals and haste, Regenga could be the last nail in WHM's meriting coffin. However, it still has status heals and haste, so... :/

It's so odd to me that when a melee's role can be replaced it's no big deal, but when it's a mage the job is doomed.

....Eh...fisrt of all, I was comparing it to Scholar in a highly hypothetical situation (in which I admitted WHM would still have an advantage (unless SCH gets Haste), or didn't you get what I was alluding to in the 2nd sentence?) and second, the role of healer has been hacked away at long before Dancer (or Scholar) came around. WHM's only saving grace in most merits are its status heals and haste. Repose gives it a greater amount of utility and practicality, but nothing can beat RDM as a main healer for merits, even one who only has a basic idea of what he's doing. Devotion is nice & all, and the fact that it eats Stoneskin first is a major plus, but there are FAR too many WHMs out there who pick Prot 5. You can't really fuck up RDM group 2s (too badly((this is also in parenthesis))).

Also, don't fucking tell me of the marginalization of melee. I'm a MNK, ffs. ~_~;

[Sekkite]

but there are FAR too many WHMs out there who pick Prot 5.

If I had WHM levelled to 75 I'd put a point into prot 5. The better the animation, the bigger the e-peen.

Also, don't fucking tell me of the marginalization of melee. I'm a MNK, ffs. ~_~;

I levelled DRK and did end-game on DRK during the PS2 days, and never had a kraken club (so no souleater kraken fun). Anyone who remembers my old forum whoring can attest to the sheer amount of bitching I did on these forums at the time. That's not to say I wasn't justified in said bitching!

[Max™]

5 seconds between Waltzes.

If your tank dies in 5-10 seconds, get a new tank, or learn the timing of mob attacks better, knowing when cures will be needed is a very useful skill when healing someone, especially when you're limited by a shared timer.

[Takiwaki]

5 seconds between Waltzes.

If your tank dies in 5-10 seconds, get a new tank, or learn the timing of mob attacks better, knowing when cures will be needed is a very useful skill when healing someone, especially when you're limited by a shared timer.

agree totally and also to add that in the case where its that needed to cure spam, dnc has stun or voke flourishes to balance out the time between heals, to buy enough time to get the tank back to good condition. a 5 sec recast on an instant cast heal balances out well i think compared to a 2.5 second cast for cure. One just needs to adjust to the play mechanic a bit.

[Max™]

See, I don't mage at all, haven't seen I retired and deleveled my Rdm 58 > 36.

Curing isn't a reflex anymore, but getting used to Waltz timer wasn't hard.

Instead of a 2.5 second wait to get the cure off, it's a cure that lands instantly, and has a wait just after it.

You can interrupt any dance animation with another, so say you cure, mob WSes mid cure, smack it with a stun or whatnot.

[Lebzile]

To the whole shared timer thing; yea, you can spam the JAs back to back since they have no "Cast Time." <3 InstantCures

Also, MNK/DNC is pretty fucking awesome. >_>

[Max™]

I can't wait to get War/Dnc functional.

Campaign, Sky farming, Missions...god it's gonna rock.

Utility+Epic funny of a taru with a big axe leaping and spinning around.

[Kyreth]

Strangely, that sounds reasonable and not like Septimus's dojinshi collection.

"And now....Live from Bastok- the deadly, graceful power of the Galkan Axe Dancers!"

It's MP-free abilities, after all. And the abilities are handy.

What governs dance accuracy, anyway? +Accuracy stuff improves landing rate, right?