Dancer discussion

[blister1]

Anyplace for a 37 DNC to solo for some good xp while waiting for a pT ... Too many Dancers around my lvl and getting a pt chance is low.so might as well find a place to solo while waiting.. Preferable EM or T's.. : P

http://monsters.ffxi-atlas.com/

[Maxxthepenguin]

Anyplace for a 37 DNC to solo for some good xp while waiting for a pT ... Too many Dancers around my lvl and getting a pt chance is low.so might as well find a place to solo while waiting.. Preferable EM or T's.. : P

http://monsters.ffxi-atlas.com/

Let's make this really easy

http://monsters.ffxi-atlas.com/list.php ... sortby=lvl

[recca84]

Thanks that really helps

[Wizerd]

Curing Waltz III obtained and tested~


Unfortunately I couldn't keep one stat controlled while gradually raising the other, due to limited CHR / VIT selection at lv50. However, just like the previous two, it didn't appear to matter, as CHR and VIT both affected it the same amount.

I used the following dataset:

Cured-CHR-VIT-Total
340-50-44-94
341-50-45-95
342-50-46-96
342-53-44-97
343-53-45-98
344-53-46-99
345-56-44-100
345-56-45-101
346-56-46-102
347-59-44-103
348-59-45-104
348-59-46-105
349-62-44-106
350-62-45-107
351-62-46-108

To figure out that the formula is:

Curing Waltz III
HP Cured = (Dancer's CHR + Receiver's VIT)*0.75 + 270

To recap...
Curing Waltz II
HP Cured = (Dancer's CHR + Receiver's VIT)*0.5 + 130

Curing Waltz
HP Cured = (Dancer's CHR + Receiver's VIT)*0.25 + 60

Using this, we can determine that Curing Waltz IV has a 12 second recast (based on the previous 6,8,10 pattern), and the formula should be:
HP Cured = (Dancer's CHR + Receiver's VIT)*1.00 + 550

This would allow a DNC with lv50 stats (at least with my base stats as a Hume) to cure themselves for 643, which isn't too bad considering the stats scale up and more CHR/VIT gear becomes available by lv75.

[chichicha]

Anyplace for a 37 DNC to solo for some good xp while waiting for a pT ... Too many Dancers around my lvl and getting a pt chance is low.so might as well find a place to solo while waiting.. Preferable EM or T's.. : P

I keep hearing people said 6 DNC pt 15k/hr around level 24 - 38.
May be you can try that ? Since you said there is lots of DNC lfp.
I haven't got any chance to try it, but I did a few exp pt with another DNC, the Box Steps or Quickstep capped so fast. Sometimes, I even need to use the Slutter Step to gain 2 moves

So I noticed a few of you guys took out Joyeuse as a viable off-hand option. B dagger and D sword is 250 vs 210 skill, for about 36 accuracy difference (should be less with Supp.). Assuming roughly a 5% accuracy decrease for each 10acc, that makes off-hand about 20-25% less accurate (I know it's not linear, but I'm not sure what the exact number is). Wouldn't that still put Joyeuse ahead of a dagger? Joyeuse will have about 25-30 more delay than daggers, but that shouldn't affect functionality since DNCs aren't going for 100TP in the shortest amount of time; they just want a steady stream. Damage may be a bit lower, but I don't think that should be too big a concern for end-game DNCs (unless you hit for 0).

Where 1.5 is Joyeuse attacks per round, x is dagger accuracy, and 0.25 is estimated accuracy loss from sword, the inequality will hold true for values of x above 0.75, right?

1.5 * (x - 0.25) > 1.0 * x

I know my math is very basic and raw, so I'm not trying to convince anybody...just expressing my thoughts.

On anything other than the more evasive HNMs, doesn't that make Joyeuse better?

It's not that I don't want or lazy (a little bit tho) to get Joytoy.
(Lots of people got Joytoy, especially, RDM, told me it's luxury decorating item >.>; may be just for WAR is useful or PLD... I guessed.)
TBH, I don't have problem to gain TP. Sometimes, I found it is annoying to have too much TP... 100+, 200+, 300 >.>;

Just an example to demostrate how I got my TP -
10 TP - 2hits from two daggers - 1 Steps = 2 moves = Reverse Flourish = 21TP, all these happened, while my daggers are non-stop hitting.
Another 2 Steps (has to wait for RF recast) - RF - 46 TP, again my daggers are not stopping swinging.
I got 67 tp in 35 sec ish, just from DNC JA.
And after that ... you will see how much TP you have...

p.s. - Thanks for doing the Cure Waltz Test ! :D

p.s. D rating with B+ rating (while my Dagger is merited cap and becomes between A+/A), I don't like seeing myself missed on hitting so much. I tried Hand-to-Hands at lvl68 exp pt, PCC, SH+1, Life Belt and pumped in all ACC I can, I still occasionally missed 20% of my hits, even missed on Steps.
However, Corsair with JoyToy and Merc. Kris, at 75, merit capped both, in TP burn pt, pwn with Martial Gun !

[Koyangi]

Based on how often Joyeuse procs twice and with capped sword merits and suppa, with a good offhand dagger (mainhand for WS choices?), I'd see Joyeuse best to TP in regardless.

[Max™]

Wish sushi, acc gear, and merits it shouldn't be that bad for exping and whatnot.

You can completely forget about attack after all, as long as you don't hit for goose eggs, Dnc isn't a DD.

Looking forward to putting my Joyeuseless to work, since it retired once I got Steel Cyclone on War >.>.

[Maxxthepenguin]

If you're hitting the mob you should worry about doing some damage

[Wizerd]

If you're hitting the mob you should worry about doing some damage

Agreed. You guys who are saying DNC is not a DD at all, what benefit do you see for DNC over a WHM or something then? WHM can Haste, they can Dia II, and they can sub RDM to Gravity to get all the same general benefits DNC gives. There are subtle advantages DNC would still have over mages, but not many.

The nice thing I see in DNC is that we can do some decent damage while tanking *and* main healing. The steps are 5%, 7%, 9%, 11%, and 13% down effects depending on the level, which in merit-style parties when you're looking at 1-3 steps per battle, is still pretty decent (I'd use one of each starting with Box Step, then Quickstep and alternate back and forth I think). Main healing hasn't been a problem since getting level 50, with a Cure IV equal available every 10 seconds, and when you're not worrying about status effects (this is why Colibri own). This also makes it easy to tank (but this is why Colibri can suck sometimes for DNC). Fortunately, in the case of Colibri, DD are usually stronger than your Curing Waltz III spams. But anyway, I'll stop blabbing.

DD is still important if you're gonna take up a party slot. My best parties on DNC so far currently at lv53 have been without Bard, although I've had one with a Bard that still tops the list.

[Falisa]

While I don't see Dancer as being a great job for those HNMs (very situational atleast) I do see Dancer as being a great job to low man many different NMs. You'll be able to solo a great amount of things at 75, that even though they might take awhile to kill, I am pretty certain that Dancer won't have to worry about not being able to kill something by themself, or with the harder NMs (the Yovra in sea came to mind when I was thinking about this lol) you could easily small man them. Thats something about Dancer I see coming in handy for me at 75.

[Wizerd]

While I don't see Dancer as being a great job for those HNMs (very situational atleast) I do see Dancer as being a great job to low man many different NMs. You'll be able to solo a great amount of things at 75, that even though they might take awhile to kill, I am pretty certain that Dancer won't have to worry about not being able to kill something by themself, or with the harder NMs (the Yovra in sea came to mind when I was thinking about this lol) you could easily small man them. Thats something about Dancer I see coming in handy for me at 75.

The solo possibilities are pretty endless @ lv75 - anything that doesn't one-shot you or hit too hard to two-shot you with melee hits.

[Wizerd]

I'd edit my previous post, but since this is completely unrelated I felt it deserved its own:

What gave people the impression that Curing Waltz spells give less Enmity than their Cure spell equivalents? It seems to me that for the amount cured, it gives the exact same amount of Enmity, if not more. I can see the reason people thinking this is because the Waltzes start out curing less than the spell equivalents, but by now this should seem wrong.

Also wanted to ask anyone with DNC at 70+ about Curing Waltz IV; does it give Enmity like Cure V (ie: less than Curing Waltz III), or is there no evident reduction on its hate?

[Nyiri]

I am pretty certain that Dancer won't have to worry about not being able to kill something by themself, or with the harder NMs (the Yovra in sea came to mind when I was thinking about this lol) you could easily small man them.

If I ever fight Yovra on DNC, I am *so* starting the battle with no weapons equipped. I suppose I'll want to cap HtH skill for that, too.

[Falisa]

Because that statement helped this thread SO much.

[Nyiri]

Because that statement helped this thread SO much.

More useful than trite flamebait like this.

Consider: gear-stripping moves performed by Yovra, Merrow, and the like remove items from every slot, including weapons. What happens when your weapon changes? And how might that affect a Dancer?

[Falisa]

Why even post things like that? It seems like you're trying to start an argument.

And theres many different ways to get around that problem, but thats not what my post was about. So please troll

[Nyiri]

Why even post things like that? It seems like you're trying to start an argument.

And theres many different ways to get around that problem, but thats not what my post was about. So please troll

Please, can we keep things constructive? Whatever you've read into what I've had to say here, I'm not actually here to troll, argue, or posture. I think it's perfectly natural to hear people talking about using DNC against mobs that wipe TP and think to onesself "My, but that could be inconvenient! I wonder whether there's a way to avoid having my TP flushed when it does the cute naughty tentacle WS?"

From there, I was just sort of extrapolating my experiences on DNC in Besieged vs Undead. I found the Merrow family's "Stripga" WS to be so annoying that, were there any chance at all I would still be able to hit and damage the things, I would much rather simply not equip a weapon at all. At least that way, when I *do* get my gear stripped, I wouldn't get my TP flushed as well. Obviously there are other approaches to the problem, too. That's just what I imagine my first approach would look like.

There are other WS that annoy me quite a bit on DNC, ao well. The TP-zeroing WS that Fomori, Colibri, and Gnats do is fairly annoying. At least Colibri only dump my TP if I take hate; Shadoweye's Gnat units and Fomori are a pain, with their area-effect TP-flushing WS.

I haven't tried fighting Ladybugs or Imps on DNC yet, but am entering the level range where I should expect to end up in a Caedarva party. I expect that Amnesia would annoy me quite a bit. Traditional healers can carry Echo Drops to counter the Silence area-effect WS; what do Dancers do to deal with the Amnesia equivalent? Hope noone takes any damage for the next minute? Sub WHM so actual Cure spells can fill in the gap? I think if it came down to it, I'd probably go with the latter. There just aren't really that many options, if you're the party's only healer. (If there's a secondary magic-based healer, PLD or whatever, they could obviously fill in for you...)

[Falisa]

Make sure to always keep a few finishing moves on yourself is one thing that comes to mind. If you're going to use a move that completely rids you of your finishing moves, have a step ready for reverse flourish. Also with those, i really doubt you'll be soloing so I'm sure the other people you're fighting with can do something to assist you.

[Max™]

Thinking about Dnc as a DD neglects the most powerful tools the job has.

Hmmm, dinky little B skill Dagger pokes, D skill Joyeuse whiffs and pokes, a bare minimum of abilities that actually enhance YOUR Damage as opposed to helping out the party and incidentally helping yourself, the best Dagger WSes, but not the best Daggers, nor the abilities that really make those stand out, SA, TA, Triple.

Gear selection that gives great accuracy and haste options, but jack for real key DD gears.

Yet it has the potential to cure 640+ HP, Erase, Curaga, Endrainga (which is effectively Regen for melees), debuffs, two of which are melee benefit only, and some abilities which look to me to be wonderful at keeping people alive in bad situations.

Tank lose shadows? Stun the mob. Got a link and no sleeper? Whack it with Gravity, Voke it, and run it around for a second.

It's not more of a pure DD than a Whm/Nin is, and as cute as Whm/Nin's are, they aren't going to be topping any parsers with pure DD's in the party.

[ruf]

Not sure if this has been answered, but have people over 60 tried out dnc/sam? I know sam as a sub really shines with 2h weapons and not having access to Seigan or Hasso may be enough for some to discredit it, but it seems to me like Meditate alongside Reverse Flourish would be great. And the ability to start with at least enough TP to get the first waltzes going, which is a minor annoyance in exp, but could be pretty useful for BCs and the like.
Are people just going dnc/nin the whole way up?