Dancer discussion

[Tomiko]

I forgot DNC existed! I haven't used mine for anything in 2 months or more now.

I used mine last week for the first time in I think about the same amount of time as you. It was just to get Ixion ToD though.

[Toth]

Well, let's get the ball rolling again:

1)Now DNC has 4 useful merits:

Haste Samba Effect
Building Flourish Effect
Reverse Flourish Effect
Step Accuracy

All pretty solid merit categories. What's everyone going for? Personally, I am going for

4 Haste, 3 Building, 2 Reverse, and 1 Step for a nice balanced mixture.

2) Have DNC found an endgame use now with their new weaponskill Pyrrhic Kleos? The WS adds an evasion down effect and the duration is affected by TP ( 1 min at 100TP). It appears to be very potent according to early reports, even allowing DNC to hit mobs under flash status ailments (according to KI). Since DNCs can get TP very fast (especially in conjunction with the new RF merits), could a well geared Dancer be able to land Pyrric Klethos on a HNM, use steps and sambas in the down time, and reapply PK all in the span of the minute? I think its certainly viable.

[Rem]

I've been holding off putting merits into dancer at the moment but I'm thinking of going 5 reverse and 5 building. Spreading them out instead of maxing out 2 builds doesn't sound to bad either.

[Tsutsumiko]

My personal preference is 5 in Reverse, hands down. It seems too good to not do. You'll be generating a pretty nice chunk of TP, even off only 4 Stocks.

After that, I'm contemplating 5 in Haste Samba. I'm not a fan of step acc cause most DNC gear gives ACC anyways, the job's base skill is low enough that you're not going to be using Meat unless you have all but the best of gear, and the AF itself gives a really large boost to the accuracy as it is. I never really have trouble landing any steps.

So it comes down to Building vs. Haste really.

My bet is with Haste but I'm holding off for now and I'll wait until some people get some numbers up to show us just how strong Building Flourish merits really are.

[Mikayla]

My biggest question on the topic would be, do the Reverse Flourish merits only give the full amount on a 5 FM RF, or is it added regardless of how many FMs you have? I was originally going to go 5 Haste 5 Building, because my interpretation was that the Reverse merits would only show the full 15% return at 5 FM, which means using RF at 4FM would result in only 12% TP gained extra. It's significant to some degree, but I never really find myself struggling to keep TP whenever I'm using DNC.

Now, if it adds the 15% regardless of the number of FMs you have up, then it's a whole different ballgame, and adds a whole new angle to Dancer's functionality. If not, I personally think the 5 Haste 5 Building setup would be more effective in more situations.

As for landing steps and the like against full blown HNMs and the whole nine yards, I don't really think DNC in it's current state is worthwhile against most HNMs. Unless you have no other jobs, I can't see a job that wouldn't be more functional or worthwhile than having a DNC at any given HNM. I suppose the strategy you suggested is potentially feasible if you can land the steps, but I just don't see the use in it over using some other job.

[Toth]

Regarding steps, I was able to try some out on the sky gods. I landed steps fine on Genbu but less on Seiryu (about 70% rate). However, I did not have a full accuracy set for my steps and adding an Optical Hat, Potent Belt, and an Azoth, the extra +17 accuracy or so should up that rate.

I still remain intrigued by Pyhrric Kleos. I started the ws quest and I should be able to test in 4k points or so I wonder if PK could be a Dancer Feint.

[Mikayla]

You'll have to let me know, lol. The game seems to be against me getting any higher in Nyzul. The last runs I did the power went out for 3 1/2 days straight when we entered a 5-10 run.

[Talint]

I have a n00bish DNC question. I didn't even think about it until I began to organize my thoughts about DNC.

Haste Samba: is it a flat out 5% per attack round, or do multi-hit weapons get 5% per strike? I'm fairly certain I know the answer to it, but better to ask.

Either way, maxing out Haste Samba and Reverse Flourish seems the way to go.

[astrael]

Since it hasn't been specifically answered (but it looks like otherwiki has this info already), I just wanted to say that Reverse Flourish merits work no matter how many finishing moves you have accumulated. So yes, you will get 25% TP from 1 FM if you have maxed merits, and so on. I'm particularly happy that it only takes 2 steps to get 61% TP now as opposed to 3 from before.

Pyrrhic Kleos is very fun, it's actually stronger than Dancing Edge hit-for-hit for me, it just has one less hit so it needs to proc Double Attack to see it. Unfortunately I wouldn't count on it being the new Feint skill, it barely dented a Mamool Lurker's evasion tonight. If I had to guess it is probably a -20ish evasion debuff, I just haven't gotten around to thoroughly testing this WS other than using it every chance I get to get an average damage number. One other semi-fun trick that Pyrrhic Kleos can do with max Reverse Flourish and enough Store TP or just good timing is self-Darkness. Evisceration > Reverse Flourish for 75% TP > Pyrrhic Kleos is certainly flashy

If there isn't any one testing this WS at all, I guess I have some free time this weekend to figure it out if you all wanted me to, it's just not something I've ever done before.

[Mikayla]

Well, seeing as it adds the TP like that, then yeah, 5/5 Reverse is almost a must. That's much better than what I had thought. On another note, has anyone actually done any testing with the Haste Samba merits to see if it's a straight -1% Delay on every merit, or if it does something else (higher/lower)?

[jibini]

I unlocked Pyrrhic Kleos last night, although it was late and I didn't have any time to test it.

I might have a go at that tonight, since no one seems to have any definitive numbers for fTP/WSC yet.

[Cream Soda]

I did 5/5 reverse and 5/5 haste. No gear can make your samba more potent or give you more tp on reverse flourish but there is more acc gear that you can wear to improve step acc and also gear that will improve your ws dmg (Although if I was worried about DD, I wouldn't be on DNC in the first place, I'd swp to mnk)

[Tsutsumiko]

I did 5/5 reverse and 5/5 haste. No gear can make your samba more potent or give you more tp on reverse flourish but there is more acc gear that you can wear to improve step acc and also gear that will improve your ws dmg (Although if I was worried about DD, I wouldn't be on DNC in the first place, I'd swp to mnk)

This.

Support job is made for support.

[Falisa]

I personally never use Building Flourish, I see it as kinda wasting TP for most everything I do. If I was in a situation where I was never curing, maybe. But I just dont use it enough to warrent meriting it. My steps are 95% accurate in everything I've used my DNC for and I haven't even bothered to make an accuracy setup for it (I dont even have the AF hands because I was/is lazy to go get them ><).

I can see having 5/5 Reverse Flourish help me alot in situations where I'm soloing. I could use not as much steps to get a good amount of TP back, or I could be even closer to 100% if I used 5 steps. I just dont see any reason not to 5/5 this for what I do. Also... 5/5 haste samba kinda seems like it goes without saying if you use your DNC in any party situations.

But of course, as with everything in this game. Shits situational :O

[Maliciousmisery]

What strategy are people using for Building Flourish? I have not been able to think of a very efficient way to use it; would be interesting to see how other people use it.

[kenshyn]

What strategy are people using for Building Flourish? I have not been able to think of a very efficient way to use it; would be interesting to see how other people use it.

Pretty much soloing when I want to kill fast and know my tp gain is way greater than the mobs damage output or in Campaign Battle when I want to do more damage if I can't get a mob to solo.

[Tsutsumiko]

I treat building flourish like it's "Boost" on MNK.

You just have it built into the macro to use it if you've got the stocks. It does put up some nice numbers, but I can't see myself wanting this over giving my party a (presumed) 5% "Haste" buff.

Like I said, I need someone to show me some numbers. (College life doesn't permit me to do this ; ; ) If the Building Flourish merits are adding like 100 Damage to Dancing Edge per merit, then yes, this might be worth getting 5/5 on because DNC could be a reliable DD.

But I can't see that happening as this job screams "SUPPORT" and you know... lolMeleeSupport jobs.

[travOtaku]

I don't understand why people are so quick to say that using Building Flourish and WSing on DNC is a waste of TP. I'd say it's a bigger waste to stay at 300% perpetually and never dip below 200%.

Whenever I play DNC in meripos I just watch what I am doing and spend a little time to set myself up for a WS. I don't just mash my macro when it gets to 100% and then pray that someone doesn't get hit before I have the time to recover my TP. I will make sure that my sambas are not about to wear off and that everyone is at a nice range of health before I even think about it.

It usually works like this:

Step (2FM) > BF (0FM) > Step (2FM) > Step (4FM) > WS > Violent Flourish (3FM) > Step (5FM) > Reverse Flourish > 75% TP immediately after a WS. That's enough TP to Waltz someone if they've taken damage, or to reapply a samba.

You haven't "lost" any TP because 75 is more than you need to do anything that a DNC has access to, and if you don't need to do anything, you've probably had a few attack rounds by the time you do need to do something and you are back over 100%TP anyway.

I hate sitting on TP, and it just seems that it's a better use of your extra TP to add some damage. With Building Flourish, I have put up some very high numbers. Especially if you are fighting Lolibri. I have seen a few of my Dancing Edge's break 1.2k damage, which seems rather respectable given that I am technically just a healer.

I am still on the fence about the merits though. I have capped Reverse, but I just can't break myself from the idea that Drain Samba III is more useful than Haste Samba. Haste Sambe doesn't affect recast timers, so the only thing that happens is you hit slightly faster. Coupled with Haste the results are a little nicer, but I have just always thought that the utility of healing yourself by merely meleeing is far more worthwhile. It really helps the mages converse MP, because if you get hit with a stray WS, you can just heal yourself back up with a few swings of your weapon. Haste Samba doesn't provide nearly the same amount of utility. At least in my opinion.

[Tsutsumiko]

I am still on the fence about the merits though. I have capped Reverse, but I just can't break myself from the idea that Drain Samba III is more useful than Haste Samba. Haste Sambe doesn't affect recast timers, so the only thing that happens is you hit slightly faster. Coupled with Haste the results are a little nicer, but I have just always thought that the utility of healing yourself by merely meleeing is far more worthwhile. It really helps the mages converse MP, because if you get hit with a stray WS, you can just heal yourself back up with a few swings of your weapon. Haste Samba doesn't provide nearly the same amount of utility. At least in my opinion.

My point is, Dancer is an "ignored" job for the most part. Haste Samba isn't a reason to invite a DNC. Neither is Drain Samba III.

People invite Bards for things like March and Ballad.

The question is does either maxing Building Flourish make it a reasonable DD that can heal, thus helping it get invites or fit a role in end game

OR

Does having max Haste Samba allow it to get invites because capped Samba is extremely useful (on par or better than having something like March/Haste)? At the moment DNC just has no real role in XP or End Game. These merits should allow Dancer to actually be a fully fleshed out support and/or DD job. The problem is, it doesn't seem like either does this. So the question becomes, which has a better niche/what's going to make people want us more? :/

I want people to go "Oh he has DNC leveled. That could be useful..." rather than "Oh he has DNC leveled. What a waste lol"

[Tomiko]

I'm curious if anyone else has encountered the following. My Dnc just gathers dust, so I rarely hear about it.

The other day someone in the ls was leveling with a Dnc (level sync'd to 50 I think) and was complaining about getting Haste Samba. Someone else in ls (not in the party) then said something about not liking it either. I think the reason he mentioned was due to it not being haste and screwing up x-hit setups.

Has anyone else received complaints for that reason? With all the talk I see about X-hit setups on 2h jobs, it seems like a semi-reasonable complaint since it does mess up their setups.

My train of thought with Sambas is that if melee are rarely taking damage, then I'll use Haste Samba. But if Drain/Aspir Samba would be more useful I'll use that instead. (Shit's situational, etc)