Dancer discussion

[Talint]

Meeh, Fan Dance might be useful for soloing easier mobs, but it decays incredibly fast against hard-hitting monsters.

Tried to solo Purple, the New Black just to get a better idea of how Fan Dance works. Damage taken:
11
33
53
60
60
36
140
106
134
134
96
133
220(crit)
112
126
159
149
112
160
(took fan dance off at this point because I got petrified and was obviously going to die)
104
203
152

In maybe three minutes (less than four for sure). So even fully merited, this has its limitations. Still looks like a Campaigning job to me~

Looks pretty Sentinel-ish.

[astrael]

It doesn't seem too bad if that's the case, I wasn't expecting something totally broken anyways. At least with DNC/NIN, the Sentinel-like damage reduction won't decay -until- you get hit, sooooo the pressure would be on you to avoid taking damage directly just like a true NIN tank but with the added advantage of taking a lot less when you do mess up (at least for a few hits). Now I'm really curious how strong the enmity boost is, going to get the rest of my merit and see how to take advantage of it.

EDIT: 3-5 merits in Fan Dance it has less recast than fully merited Sentinel? Seems like DNC just trades off how many hits it can take for a slightly better recast timer.

[kenshyn]

Meeh, Fan Dance might be useful for soloing easier mobs, but it decays incredibly fast against hard-hitting monsters.

Tried to solo Purple, the New Black just to get a better idea of how Fan Dance works. Damage taken:
11
33
53
60
60
36
140
106
134
134
96
133
220(crit)
112
126
159
149
112
160
(took fan dance off at this point because I got petrified and was obviously going to die)
104
203
152

In maybe three minutes (less than four for sure). So even fully merited, this has its limitations. Still looks like a Campaigning job to me~

Hmmm max merits in Fan Dance would seem to be a soloing dancers/Nin wet dream imho. Just keep it up and refresh it as often as possible looks like <3 to me. Add in added eva from closed position and this is looking like hawt sauce.

[Flippant]

If you have great evasion equip, I suppose. But for me, trying to take only six hits every three minutes on something like that would be impossible. Recast timers probably wouldn't even be up, considering I'm not at equip haste cap for DNC (missing body and legs). For things I already could have solo'd blink taking, Fan Dance doesn't help me (I'd rather use Samba), and for things I couldn't have, this only makes me last a little bit longer.

With a bit of support though, I think it could have a little more potential.

[kenshyn]

The only thing that ever gets me in trouble blink tanking is when shadows are down the mobs hits insanely hard and interrupts me I am sure the damage migration here makes that trivial damage until I can pop shadows again and cure. Basically its phallanx until Ni timer or Violent Flourish stun is back up to me this seems great every 3 minutes you can refresh it just seems sweet for some long drawn out hard hitting fights.

[Tsutsumiko]

Ok I can't really see anyone putting more than 1 merit into Fan Dance. It seems that the effect decays to about 10% damage reduction after you've taken about 7 hits and it stays that way until you reapply. Even with a 3 minute recast time, it just doesn't seem worth it.

Assign your merits else where kiddies. It's still an INCREDIBLY useful tool, but it's not as useful as we'd all hoped.

[kenshyn]

I use dnc pretty much for solo /nin with max merits in fan dance looks like that will make soloing many hard hitting mobs much easier combined with violent flourish I am a very happy camper with a 3 minute timer means I can have my shadows down much longer and not die what's not to love about that.

Maybe time to cap evasion merits along with merits in closed position as well, with all my evasion+ and skill gear on and and see just what I can do with fan Dance solo hehehe.

Just love that it effects aoe as well.

VZX wrote:
kenshynOnShiva wrote:
Anyone test fan dance vs AOE? or a ws to the face? curious of the reduction.

80 damage intially from One-Eyed Gwajboj Battle Dance up to 250 dmg by the end of effect. With effect off I took up to 300 dmg.

[Toth]

I won the relic body in Dynamis- Xarc last night and I tried to put together a merit party to test out the VF improvements. However, there were few decent jobs on and I could only manage a war x2 rng mnk brd dnc party so I was main healing. Thus, I had little chances to use steps for stunning. Still, of all the stuns on Mamool Jas I used, every one stuck. Damage was not changed. I'll test a bit more when I get a less stressful party (still managed 18k/hr on puks and Mamool Jas though XD )

[6souls]

from wiki;

Greatly Enhances the Accuracy of the Stun effect

The guy in our ls that got the body really can't tell a difference so far.

[astrael]

since no one was doing any tests on the enmity boost Fan Dance gave, I gave it a spin. (I basically used Kaeko's tests for enmity gear and just solved for x, so special thanks for the standard to work from).

DNC/RDM, RDM/WHMx2, no enmity merits or gear.

Buffed with Stoneskin, then I activated Fan Dance. Had first RDM cast Silence to pull a level 0 Wild Rabbit. Then second RDM and I both cast Dispel (320 CE) after letting VE drop from the initial pull. We waited for any residual VE to decay then began having the second RDM casting cure 1 for 0 hp until he pulled hate.

It took 48 cures to pull hate, thus Fan Dance has a +15 enmity modifier.

Thanks to Falseliberty and Lojak for their help, I know it wasn't the most exciting test.

[Rionel]

Not to butt in or anything... I just wanted to offer my opinion about the new DNC merits distribution.

Personally, I thought that going 3/5 No Foot Rise and 5/5 Closed Position would be better. The situation I would see would be you use No Foot Rise to get 3 Finishing Moves, then just pop one step to get yourself to 5 FMs for the full Reverse Flourish return!

I mean, technically it's not as convenient as 5/5 NFR and if you're just using it for the sake of building TP without hurting any monsters, the difference between 3 and 5 FMs with full Reverse Flourish merits is 48TP VS 75TP; a 27 TP difference. Though personally, would just getting one attack round to get the 10 TP for a step to make those 2 extra FMs for Reverse Flourish or anything involving FMs really cause that much inconvenience?

You do get +15ACC/EVA instead of +9ACC/9EVA with 5/5 Closed Position. That's technically a gain of +12 total stats right? I dunno~ I'm just throwing out ideas.

Of course, Sabre Dance and Fan Dance are 1/5. Though it'd be kind of interesting to see a 5/5 Sabre Dance Dancer trying to go just full blown DD for fun! 5/5 Building Flourish and all that fun stuff.

But anyway, that's kind of a whole different thing altogether. Just brainstorming here!

[urat]

So I've been contemplating what I'd prefer to go for as dance, and I think I want to be a DD, so I looked at my choice of stats to focus on, and realized we have a HELL of a lot of haste egar, so I did some math, here's what I cam up with...

My semi optimal set, saving money.

Body: Raparee Harness 4%

Head: Walmart Turban 5%

Hands: Dusk Gloves 3%

Legs: Etoile Tights 3%

Feet: Dusk ledelhosamatchacallits 2%

Waist: Speed Belt 6%

Adding up to a whopping 23%. =o

Then toss in meritted haste samba for 10%,so thats 33%, so thats an extra round every 3. Then finally with rdm, haste for additional 15%.

Which is 48% haste O.o;. If I spent 6 million for HQ dusk legs/feet thatd be 50%... So it would pretty much double my tp per round.

I'd then get Relic body, or anteas harness, whcihever is easier, O hat, and Lif belt macroed in for additional acc on those slightly trickyier mobs, then swap back to haste gear.

Then toss in Saber Dance for double attack into the mix... Well do't even know what would happen. But I think it's safe to say as /sam, with meditate and reverse flourish my tp would go through the roof, no?

I dunno, is 48% haste really good or average? Any ideas would be welcome =D

[astrael]

More information on Fan Dance to finalize all data on it:

Since ranged attacks do not vary in damage as long as stats and position don't change (I remembered this just now in Besieged when Medusa was shooting at me out of nowhere), I figured out the best way to test the damage reduction effect. I went to Alzadaal Undersea Ruins, pulled a RNG qiqirn and let it shoot me til I figured it all out.

Normal Damage: 90
Fan Dance:
1st hit - 9, 2nd hit - 18, 3rd hit - 27, 4th hit - 36, 5th hit - 45, 6th hit - 54, 7th hit - 63, 8th hit - 72, 9-15th hit - 72

Pretty basic math tells us:
When activated, Fan Dance gives a 90% damage reduction. Every successful physical damage hit lowers this by 10% (there is no time-based decay). It caps at 20% damage reduction (not 10% as was stated earlier).

Otherwiki is way off on the decay formula... with the tested +15 enmity boost and exact damage reduction numbers I'll go ahead and add an entry for Fan Dance to bgwiki with all this info.

One other hidden quirk about Fan dance.. when I capped on damage reduction, I started evading a LOT of ranged attacks, like I dodged 10 in a row after being hit 8 times in a row. I wonder if it gives a hidden evasion boost when the sentinel effect is nearly depleted... sorry it's nothing more than way off speculation, but if people can keep an eye out for similar results it might be worth noting.

[urat]

Pretty basic math tells us:
When activated, Fan Dance gives a 90% damage reduction. Every successful physical damage hit lowers this by 10% (there is no time-based decay). It caps at 20% damage reduction (not 10% as was stated earlier).

So it initially works as a psuedo stone skin huh?

90% reduction is pretty intense O_O;, could prove very useful against predictable devestating one shot moves used by bosses, thank you! =D

[Talint]

Not to butt in or anything... I just wanted to offer my opinion about the new DNC merits distribution.

Personally, I thought that going 3/5 No Foot Rise and 5/5 Closed Position would be better. The situation I would see would be you use No Foot Rise to get 3 Finishing Moves, then just pop one step to get yourself to 5 FMs for the full Reverse Flourish return!

I mean, technically it's not as convenient as 5/5 NFR and if you're just using it for the sake of building TP without hurting any monsters, the difference between 3 and 5 FMs with full Reverse Flourish merits is 48TP VS 75TP; a 27 TP difference. Though personally, would just getting one attack round to get the 10 TP for a step to make those 2 extra FMs for Reverse Flourish or anything involving FMs really cause that much inconvenience?

You do get +15ACC/EVA instead of +9ACC/9EVA with 5/5 Closed Position. That's technically a gain of +12 total stats right? I dunno~ I'm just throwing out ideas.

Of course, Sabre Dance and Fan Dance are 1/5. Though it'd be kind of interesting to see a 5/5 Sabre Dance Dancer trying to go just full blown DD for fun! 5/5 Building Flourish and all that fun stuff.

But anyway, that's kind of a whole different thing altogether. Just brainstorming here!

I thought about the same thing, myself. If you're standing around for something like a Kirin zerg waiting for the ??? to pop back up, then 3/5NFR or 5/5NFR wouldn't make that much of a difference.

But I think while fighting it might make a very big difference, since steps always have a chance of missing. If you use NFR and then step, and then miss, then you're sitting at 3 flourishes for another fifteen seconds and you're down 10TP on top of it.

5/5 NFR and Closed Position for me though, since I'm still not all that convinced that the dances are all that useful for the situations that require a dancer. I thought maybe Fan Dance would be good for Nyzul if you're pulling and need to get back with aggro, but even then, that seems ridiculously specific to blow at least 30,000EXP on, for something that might be better to have shadows for anyway.

So I've been contemplating what I'd prefer to go for as dance, and I think I want to be a DD, so I looked at my choice of stats to focus on, and realized we have a HELL of a lot of haste egar, so I did some math, here's what I cam up with...

My semi optimal set, saving money.

Body: Raparee Harness 4%

Head: Walmart Turban 5%

Hands: Dusk Gloves 3%

Legs: Etoile Tights 3%

Feet: Dusk ledelhosamatchacallits 2%

Waist: Speed Belt 6%

Adding up to a whopping 23%. =o

Then toss in meritted haste samba for 10%,so thats 33%, so thats an extra round every 3. Then finally with rdm, haste for additional 15%.

Which is 48% haste O.o;. If I spent 6 million for HQ dusk legs/feet thatd be 50%... So it would pretty much double my tp per round.

I'd then get Relic body, or anteas harness, whcihever is easier, O hat, and Lif belt macroed in for additional acc on those slightly trickyier mobs, then swap back to haste gear.

Then toss in Saber Dance for double attack into the mix... Well do't even know what would happen. But I think it's safe to say as /sam, with meditate and reverse flourish my tp would go through the roof, no?

I dunno, is 48% haste really good or average? Any ideas would be welcome =D

If you buy HQ Dusk gear and equip all of that, then you're looking at hitting the haste gear cap of 25%. Just be careful that your accuracy doesn't suffer as a result. You may be hitting twice as fast, but you'll be surprised at how much you'll miss. I kind of realized that the other day, thinking that I had enough accuracy, and starting subbing in haste, but as it turns not, not so much.

Also, running slow sucks. I'm a little tired of switching gear anytime I want to move anywhere.

[Seibar]

lol if you have a speed belt you mid as well get hq dusk to hit the 25% cap

i have 19% atm, +3 if i get the af2 legs.


fan dance seems very useful, i got too play around with it in campaign most of the weekend. knock backs would hit me for like 30 and normal attks did almost nothing for the first few hits. very nice for when shadows fall down.

[Tsutsumiko]

More information on Fan Dance to finalize all data on it:

Since ranged attacks do not vary in damage as long as stats and position don't change (I remembered this just now in Besieged when Medusa was shooting at me out of nowhere), I figured out the best way to test the damage reduction effect. I went to Alzadaal Undersea Ruins, pulled a RNG qiqirn and let it shoot me til I figured it all out.

Normal Damage: 90
Fan Dance:
1st hit - 9, 2nd hit - 18, 3rd hit - 27, 4th hit - 36, 5th hit - 45, 6th hit - 54, 7th hit - 63, 8th hit - 72, 9-15th hit - 72

Pretty basic math tells us:
When activated, Fan Dance gives a 90% damage reduction. Every successful physical damage hit lowers this by 10% (there is no time-based decay). It caps at 20% damage reduction (not 10% as was stated earlier).

Otherwiki is way off on the decay formula... with the tested +15 enmity boost and exact damage reduction numbers I'll go ahead and add an entry for Fan Dance to bgwiki with all this info.

One other hidden quirk about Fan dance.. when I capped on damage reduction, I started evading a LOT of ranged attacks, like I dodged 10 in a row after being hit 8 times in a row. I wonder if it gives a hidden evasion boost when the sentinel effect is nearly depleted... sorry it's nothing more than way off speculation, but if people can keep an eye out for similar results it might be worth noting.

Thank you! This matches up exactly with what I got and my predictions. Very nice work.

I'm still stumped on Double Attack though and testing that is a pain in the ass...

Also I can see 5/5 Closed Position but I don't really think it's all that necessary if you merit Dagger to 8/8. If not, go ahead. You're never going to get a full meat build on this job so I figure might as well just stick with the route that'll maximize damage potential, assuming you don't need to worry about accuracy. Gear, in time, may fix this.

[Talint]

Also I can see 5/5 Closed Position but I don't really think it's all that necessary if you merit Dagger to 8/8. If not, go ahead. You're never going to get a full meat build on this job so I figure might as well just stick with the route that'll maximize damage potential, assuming you don't need to worry about accuracy. Gear, in time, may fix this.

My combat merits are at 8/8 sword, 8/8 gaxe, and 4/4 shield. No room for Dagger merits for me. It really takes a hell of a lot of accuracy/DEX (and thus gil) to think about eating meat, though I'm starting to toy with the idea.

But, on a happier note:

http://www.itadakiproject.com/etoilecasaque.png

Haven't played around with it too much yet. Went to go do the Spiral Hell WSNM though and every single stun landed. http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/images/icons/icon10.gif

[VZX]

DNC accuracy probably maxed at high 370 range with full dagger merit and full closed position merit (assuming using proper haste setup). Still a bit lower than most DW melee can attain, but I think this number is much better than Joyeuse COR with full sword merit.

I myself planning to do 3 CP 3 SD 1 FD and 3 NFR

[Seibar]

But, on a happier note:

http://www.itadakiproject.com/etoilecasaque.png

Haven't played around with it too much yet. Went to go do the Spiral Hell WSNM though and every single stun landed. http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/images/icons/icon10.gif

cg on that! i was hoping to see one drop last night, but no such luck
i really hope that body makes dnc a viable stunner

someone go SS stunning GoH please xD