Dancer discussion

[urat]

So whats the thoughts on the matron's knife? Being a decent leveled fisherman, I wanna experiment with eating lesser known legendary fish, there are a couple on the list people dont know the dex boost from

[Flippant]

A great start would be eating Pizzas for the attack and accuracy bonuses and wearing the af2 body or Assault Jerkin. I'm thinking of switching to meat full time though with a few merits in Closed Position and a small upgrade to accuracy in gear.

I'm actually wondering what our optimal accuracy rating should be for an efficient meat setup.

Also wondering this. As for some personal numbers, I used pizza in my latest merit party and parsed at about 80% accuracy. Half way into the party, I used Squid Sushi (forgot my Sole D: ) and ended parse around 84% (so should be ~88% accuracy with sushi). Accuracy on my equipment is +39, 8/8 Dagger merits (off-hand Joyeuse with no sword merits), and I don't have any Closed Position merits. This was no Madrigal or Hunter's Roll, either.

I'm a melee nub, but what's optimum acc % you should obtain until you use meat? I've used sub in a party once when I ran out of sushi (different merit that aforementioned, but both were on birds), but I don't know if anyone was parsing and it got eaten pretty quickly anyway. In my opinion, accuracy seemed awful, especially for steps (just because it's so noticeable), and the DE boost didn't seem worth it (14xx vs 12xx).

Waiting for more upgrades (Etoile Casaque +1, Etoile Cape) before bothering to merit with LS again.


Edit: Fooled around with that melee accuracy link, and it says I should have 95% accuracy with Squid/Sole Sushi, 91% with pizza (I just selected Carp Sushi, since it's also 10% accuracy), 73% with no food. The first two numbers seem pretty high, compared to that parse though... (this is without songs/rolls, again). So yeah, doesn't really seem that accurate to me.

[Shadowhusky]

Generally, you want 80%+ acc if you want to eat meat.

[Toth]

I finally got an invite to a TP burn as DNC so I was able to test out a few things. For one, the party was at Mamool Ja Staging Point so eating a pizza was a welcome bonus. Unfortunately, it was a party without a BRD....

Overall, I was content with the results. On Mamool Jas, I would give my accuracy around 85% (no parser was run alas once I saw the setup). I was able to be a DD dancer so I focused on keeping SD and Haste Samba up. I must say that TP gain was fantastic when you can effectively put up SD in a party. SD really makes your DNC into a dagger machine, and it really is fun to land 3-5 hits on a mob and gain back over 20 TP in an instance. NFR also makes getting steps a snap (and 3 merits allows you to set up Haste Samba before the party even pulls the first mob)

As for pizza versus sushi on Mamools, I was not able to make a firm decision. I noticed a drop in accuracy without the sushi for sure but not enough to deny the nice attack bonus. I will hopefully parse my next pizza party (pun intended) and see my overall damage. Hopefully, with a more optimal setup.

Here are some damage pics from the party, all sans BRD or any buffs:

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b7...meritnobrd.png

WS gear was STR +30, DEX + 15 btw.

[Mesiah]

Yeah that's what I thought. This thread has basically become a "Understanding Basic Mechanics" thread though...at least recently.

Anyways on topic I'd like to say, even if it isn't much and is seriously obvious, No Foot Rise is easily the best tier 2 merit. Ever since I've gotten it and started upgrading it, DNC just seems to be more and more useful. Showing up to camps for farming with TP already packed away is absolutely wonderful. It makes starting up very nice and isn't "slow" like it feels most of the time when I used to play.

It just allows for so much more flexibility.

I'll probably get flamed for this opinion, but if you are meriting NFR just so you can start a party with TP, you could always just bring an opo opo necklace and some sleep pots. Now I won't deny that there is a little more use to it than just starting a party with tp, but I don't know that I would classify it is as " easily the best tier 2 merit."

[Tsutsumiko]

I'll probably get flamed for this opinion, but if you are meriting NFR just so you can start a party with TP, you could always just bring an opo opo necklace and some sleep pots. Now I won't deny that there is a little more use to it than just starting a party with tp, but I don't know that I would classify it is as " easily the best tier 2 merit."

No it's also the fact that I can WS and then immediately after it have near 100% TP again to perform a Samba and then a Cure. I have a lot more leeway to perform moves in the midst of battle. I wouldn't have to stop to sleep pot as you'd suggest. It's just an incredibly useful skill. Anyone who doesn't have at least 3 merits in it can't really appreciate how good it is until you've actually tried it.

Edit: Okay so I realized I didn't realize you were just going to sleep only at the start. Whatever. Doesn't change much. It's still an incredibly useful skill. Just plop 3 merits in it and see what I mean. If nothing else, your XP/hr when meritting on DNC will sure as hell go up from free TP for WS.

I say it's superior to all others because Closed Stance doesn't change much and in Meripo/End Game situations, Fan Dance doesn't seem to be used at all. Saber Dance is the only rival it has and to be performing well at all levels as a healer, you can't use Saber Dance. In a Dancer's ideal setup, one where it's not just a gimp DD with Haste, No Foot Rise is the no brainer and wins out over all other merits in terms of usefulness. (At least in my opinion). Its speed alone (plus being free) makes it win out over sleep pots all the time. It makes for dance combinations that were otherwise not possible.

[Toth]

In addition, the merit gives you finishing moves, which can be used for Building Flourish and Stun without using TP. You can also merit Reverse Flourish merits to strengthen your regained TP. These factors alone make it the most valuable merit...in my opinion anyway.

[kenshyn]

I finally got an invite to a TP burn as DNC so I was able to test out a few things. For one, the party was at Mamool Ja Staging Point so eating a pizza was a welcome bonus. Unfortunately, it was a party without a BRD....

Overall, I was content with the results. On Mamool Jas, I would give my accuracy around 85% (no parser was run alas once I saw the setup). I was able to be a DD dancer so I focused on keeping SD and Haste Samba up. I must say that TP gain was fantastic when you can effectively put up SD in a party. SD really makes your DNC into a dagger machine, and it really is fun to land 3-5 hits on a mob and gain back over 20 TP in an instance. NFR also makes getting steps a snap (and 3 merits allows you to set up Haste Samba before the party even pulls the first mob)

As for pizza versus sushi on Mamools, I was not able to make a firm decision. I noticed a drop in accuracy without the sushi for sure but not enough to deny the nice attack bonus. I will hopefully parse my next pizza party (pun intended) and see my overall damage. Hopefully, with a more optimal setup.

Here are some damage pics from the party, all sans BRD or any buffs:

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b7...meritnobrd.png

WS gear was STR +30, DEX + 15 btw.

Nice damage can u list ur gear for those numbers?

[Toth]

Nice damage can u list ur gear for those numbers?

Here you go:

The attack was high due to the pizza. I have also since acquired a Soil Gorget to replace the CChain for WS.

[Flippant]

Here you go:

The attack was high due to the pizza. I have also since acquired a Soil Gorget to replace the CChain for WS.

Hmm, do you think, then, that STR is more important than DEX, or at least when DEX reaches a certain point? I currency aim for accuracy and DEX, so my set up [without food] is DEX+42 STR+17 acc+35 atk+23. To replace some of that DEX with STR, though, I'd have to replace my accuracy+ gear as well >.x I was planning to move in more STR for accuracy once I, if ever, obtained Etoile Cape, but maybe I'm already going overboard on the DEX/acc (never really had much opportunity to try anything out though since no one likes to let me come DNC~).

Basically, which is better?:
Head: Accuracy+8 DEX+3 (what I currently use) vs. Attack+8 STR+6 DEX+4
Earringx2: Accuracy+3 DEX+2 (current) vs. DEX+2 CHR+2 (current) vs. STR+2
Ringx1: Accuracy+3 DEX+3 (current) vs. STR+5

This is strictly for DE; my sets differ slightly for other WS.

I haven't used DNC on mamool in over a year now, let alone without BRD/COR, so I have no idea how this compares to your STR-oriented setup.

[Tubbers]

Flip:

DEdge is a 30% DEX Mod, because it can't crit, the dex only adds D at roughly the same (slightly less even) rate as pure STR. STR also gives attack, but DEX gives accuracy so basically it's situational on whether you need more accuracy or more attack. As DNC you're almost always going to need the accuracy over the attack.

Head: DNC isn't really overloaded with acc, I'd keep the Acc+8 Dex+3 head unless you're parsing extremely high accuracy.

Earring: STR+2 will not perform as well as either of the others, it's basically

STR+2 : Acc+3/Dex+2 : Dex+2 Chr+2
ATK+1, D+0.5 : Acc+4 D+0.498 : Acc+1, D +.996

Acc+4 is definitely better than Atk+1, and ~0.5D Acc+1 is also definitely better than Atk+1.


Ring:
It's basically 2 or 3 atk and 0.5D vs 4 or 5 acc. I'd go with the acc.

[Flippant]

Tubbers:

You aren't a DNC, gtfo out of the thread and stop stalking me!!

p.s. Okay, thanks.

[urat]

Ok, so I've been looking at armor and etc, and doing some math...

I've come to the conclusion that, tp wise, tp store = haste. o.o;

See, say you have 10% haste. That means you get an extra attack round every 10 rounds. Giving you 10% extra tp on average, which is 1 tp extra per round, which is 10 tp store.

Thus, I am reassessing going all out haste, and maybe swapping some lesser haste pieces, like relic legs and dusk feet, with cobra feet and enkidus legs.

Even then, the 5% from suppawhatchyamacallit earring will make up for the 5% lost from dusk feet / relic legs, so I end up maximizing the balance between the two. He's my new thought set for tp store.

Walahra turban 5% haste

Relic body / rap body, depending on mobs eva

Dusk hands, 3% haste

Enkidus legs, 5 tp store

Cobra feet, 4 tp store

Speed belt for 6% haste

Suppanomini (however its spelled) for 5% 9kinda) haste

And other various items. Rajas, etc.

Combined with haste samba and saber dance, plus /sam for meditiate and tp store job trait, would probably make me a mean tp machine.

Thoughts?

[Tomiko]

Suppanomini (however its spelled) for 5% 9kinda) haste

Combined with haste samba and saber dance, plus /sam for meditiate and tp store job trait, would probably make me a mean tp machine.

Thoughts?

wut?

Also, 3% Haste on Relic Pants > STP+5

[Shadowhusky]

stupid theory

hahaohwow.jpg

Seriously, that's a really horrible idea. Haste has been proven over and over to give much better results than STP will ever give you. Suppanomimi doesn't have any +haste on it, so I have no idea what you're thinking. It's has "Enhances "Dual Wield" effect" on it, not haste. It won't be worth a damn on /sam.

[urat]

>_>;

Haste = tp store tp wise

Overall haste is > than tp store because haste increases dot AND tp overtime.

BUT if I'm just going for all out tp, it will be the same.

Say i get 10 tp per round. Exactly. If I have 10% haste, that means I get an extra attack round every 10 rounds.

Thus over a normal ten rounds I'd build 100 tp, with haste, 110 tp. Which means I've gained 10 tp over ten rounds. Which is 1 tp per round.

Which is = 10 tp store. So 10% haste increases your tp over time at the exact same rate 10 tp store would.

The difference though is haste adds the extra attack round, increasing dot by 10% and tp over time by 10% too.

But if I dont care about dot, and am just trying to get as much tp as fast as possible, 5 tp store is > 3% haste.

See what I'm trying to say now? Also the enhances dual wield effect lowers weapon delay when dual wielding by 5%. That would be used if I'm /nin. Still trying to figure out whether 2 daggers stats is > meditate/tp store. Probably is.

Just finished leveling my nin sub, so am now working on sam, thus /nin will be used til then.

[Talint]

>_>;

Haste = tp store tp wise

Overall haste is > than tp store because haste increases dot AND tp overtime.

BUT if I'm just going for all out tp, it will be the same.

Say i get 10 tp per round. Exactly. If I have 10% haste, that means I get an extra attack round every 10 rounds.

Thus over a normal ten rounds I'd build 100 tp, with haste, 110 tp. Which means I've gained 10 tp over ten rounds. Which is 1 tp per round.

Which is = 10 tp store. So 10% haste increases your tp over time at the exact same rate 10 tp store would.

The difference though is haste adds the extra attack round, increasing dot by 10% and tp over time by 10% too.

But if I dont care about dot, and am just trying to get as much tp as fast as possible, 5 tp store is > 3% haste.

See what I'm trying to say now? Also the enhances dual wield effect lowers weapon delay when dual wielding by 5%. That would be used if I'm /nin. Still trying to figure out whether 2 daggers stats is > meditate/tp store. Probably is.

Just finished leveling my nin sub, so am now working on sam, thus /nin will be used til then.

No. Please understand how game mechanics (and math) work before you spout nonsense like this.

And please stop shitting up the DNC discussion.

[urat]

Before calling me an idiot, please explain what is wrong with my math... It all works out for me. Remember we're not counting dot, cause #1 my dot isnt that great and #2 just focusing on getting fastest tp possible.

[Hyan]

Haste's effect grows exponentially, store tp's doesn't. With more haste gear, spell and songs the attack speed increase from adding 3% on top of the other buffs/gear will be greater than if you add 3% to 0% haste, and it'll greatly outweigh the +5 STP. Even if you'd stack +50 STP adding +5 more would be the same as if you had +0 STP from the very beginning.

[urat]

Haste's effect grows exponentially, store tp's doesn't. With more haste gear, spell and songs the attack speed increase from adding 3% on top of the other buffs/gear will be greater than if you add 3% to 0% haste, and it'll greatly outweigh the +5 STP. Even if you'd stack +50 STP adding +5 more would be the same as if you had +0 STP from the very beginning.

Ah ok, I see what you mean now.

I still dont quite understand a bit though. I thought only dot from haste increased exponentially, wheres the increase in tp over time was linear.

Hmm, is there a page somewhere that explains the full mechanics of haste more in depth than "it lowers delay of weapons"?