Dancer discussion

[Hyan]

Haste doesn't reduce your tp gain unlike Dual Wield, that's why it also accelerates the tp gain exponentially.

Haste (Status Effect - FFXIclopedia - a Wikia Gaming wiki) I guess this page is good, not sure if all of it is true, it being a lolwiki and all, but it should give ya a general idea.

[Tubbers]

You confused haste with dual wield.

[urat]

Ah thought the dual wield boost from earring didnt effect tp gain.

If it does I may actually want to avoid it for my eviscration>>>phyrric kleos one man darkness sc, since even if everything is lined up right I have a high chance of beeing 1-2 tp short D:

I'll check the page

[Tubbers]

Dual Wield makes decreases your delay. This reduces TP gain. It may not affect how many hits it requires to get to 100% TP, but it's going to affect how much TP a hit gives you.

I meant you were confuses Dual Wield for Haste because you were. Stacking a ton of Dual Wield (Let's say 80%) will increase your swing rate by 5x, but it will lower your TP per hit by 5x, giving you the same TP gain. This refers to your thoughts on Haste (increases DoT but not TP rate).

If you have 80% haste, you're getting 5x swing rate, and TP per hit isn't affected at all, giving you a 5x TP rate.

[urat]

Dual Wield makes decreases your delay. This reduces TP gain. It may not affect how many hits it requires to get to 100% TP, but it's going to affect how much TP a hit gives you.

I meant you were confuses Dual Wield for Haste because you were. Stacking a ton of Dual Wield (Let's say 80%) will increase your swing rate by 5x, but it will lower your TP per hit by 5x, giving you the same TP gain. This refers to your thoughts on Haste (increases DoT but not TP rate).

If you have 80% haste, you're getting 5x swing rate, and TP per hit isn't affected at all, giving you a 5x TP rate.

Yeah I understand this.

Ignore the suppa now. If you have 50% haste that doubles attack rounds, doubling tp right?


Doesnt 50 store tp double your tp over time? o.o;

Edit: Aw wait no it doesnt. Ok I see now, thank you figured it out

[Klain]

Here you go:

The attack was high due to the pizza. I have also since acquired a Soil Gorget to replace the CChain for WS.

Don't happen to have Voyager's do you?

[Thunder]

Why isn't stutter step talked about by dancers?

I don't think keeping a lv5 stutter step on HNM would be too hard with say.. /thf, and I haven't yet seen a dancer talk about anything besides easy or lowman fights(limbus, dynamis, merit parties, solo)

-30% magic evasion is like giving your mages an extra HQ staff and a half.

Brds might not have to /blm, rdms can slow/para in full potency.

Why don't dancers opt to /thf and take an HNM ally slot and dedicate themselves to keeping stutter step on? Last a minute, and each application extends the duration by 30seconds.

I think this is a pretty good role for dancers in HNM parties; instead of whining about not being able to main heal a lv90 mob.

I do not have dancer at 75 by the way, so I'm very unsure about the accuracy bonuses of "Increases step accuracy" so I'm only saying /thf because you should very easily be able to maintain enough TP to keep stutter step at lv5, and an unlucky miss streak could cost your ally 30% magic acc. While /thf almost ensures that you wont.

[urat]

Why isn't stutter step talked about by dancers?

I don't think keeping a lv5 stutter step on HNM would be too hard with say.. /thf, and I haven't yet seen a dancer talk about anything besides easy or lowman fights(limbus, dynamis, merit parties, solo)

-30% magic evasion is like giving your mages an extra HQ staff and a half.

Brds might not have to /blm, rdms can slow/para in full potency.

Why don't dancers opt to /thf and take an HNM ally slot and dedicate themselves to keeping stutter step on? Last a minute, and each application extends the duration by 30seconds.

I think this is a pretty good role for dancers in HNM parties; instead of whining about not being able to main heal a lv90 mob.

I do not have dancer at 75 by the way, so I'm very unsure about the accuracy bonuses of "Increases step accuracy" so I'm only saying /thf because you should very easily be able to maintain enough TP to keep stutter step at lv5, and an unlucky miss streak could cost your ally 30% magic acc. While /thf almost ensures that you wont.

Relic feet + af hands alone make steps borderline 100% accurate.

Toss in couple pieces of acc gear and your set. I'd suggest /nin for utsu ni/ichi for AoE and other various moves.

A skilled dancers on hnms etc can have all 3 steps tier 5. Quick>Box3>stutter3>quick>box>stutter and repear those last three.

[Thunder]

I'm positive there are dancers out there who get a spot in allies for HNM like cerb, khim, gods, and kings, but nobody talks about their success there. Dancers only talk about the lowman things they do and the community accepts that they just aren't worth a pt slot on "real" endgame.

And.. if steps are really nigh 100% on HNM, can a dancer maintain getting 30% tp every 30seconds with a B+ weapon that in all likelyhood will hit for 0 on mobs like this?

[urat]

I'm positive there are dancers out there who get a spot in allies for HNM like cerb, khim, gods, and kings, but nobody talks about their success there. Dancers only talk about the lowman things they do and the community accepts that they just aren't worth a pt slot on "real" endgame.

And.. if steps are really nigh 100% on HNM, can a dancer maintain getting 30% tp every 30seconds with a B+ weapon that in all likelyhood will hit for 0 on mobs like this?

Really really shouldn't melee on hnms D:

Stick to building tp via NFR and reverse flourish since your job is to spam the said steps.

If that isn't enough tp then go sam for meditate, and arnt their mobs that go apeshit when you attack them from the back? sneak attack prolly would be bad idea for them.

/thf /sam /nin are all good, it varies from hnm to hnm, depending on what they hit you with. If their main AoE avoids shadows, /nin is pretty much useless, but if they have several AoEs that are devestating without shadows, /sam not so good.

[Thunder]

I don't think you can come up with the response I'm looking for, no offense, I'm just quite the BG lurker.

No, no mob goes apeshit for just attacking it from behind. And you definitely can't stick steps with 75tp every 3 minutes, so you'll have to get tp from somewhere else.

And comments like,

Really really shouldn't melee on hnms D:

is what I'm proposing be changed.

By your standards dancers have no place in HNMs... or you just think you can meditate and NFT for 135tp every 3 minutes to try and keep 3 steps up.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure any group would give up a pt slot for a debuffer capable of -30% magic evasion. Even if all a dancer could keep up on an HNM is stutter step, it looks like JUST that can make an entire job.

Now, since I don't have experience with it, I'm hoping somebody can tell me why I'm wrong for thinking a dnc/thf can keep -30% magic evasion applied infinitely on any HNM. And maybe if I'm underestimating the Accuracy bonus on the AF/relic, could dnc/sam be more viable for HNM for keeping more steps active?

Also, maybe it's just Urat, but does nobody else see the advantages of keeping -30% magic evasion on an HNM? Especially with tests of death blossom(lowers target's magic evasion) taking off immunities such as grav.

[Psion]

Considering you have to be engaged just to put a step on in the first place(even if you dont have to be facing the mob), you might as well melee to plant steps if you're gonna be spamming them like that. And honestly, people are a bunch of whiny losers, are you really that afraid that a tp move is going to occur sooner? newsflash, a lot of hnms either have auto meditate/regain or are going to get tp real fast anyways regardless if one more person is going to be on it, and considering the way dnc can enhance the power of all the other melee, I would consider it well worth the sacrifice of having another person on the mob in exchange for enhanced power/accuracy/magic acc for everyone else. Besides, most mobs store tp to 300% anyways till last 25%, the only mob type i'd really worry about tp gain is automatons, as they use tp at 100% even at full health.

And the magic evasion down is huge, and lets mages go all out. Id imagine the extra potency boost to enfeebles would easily balance out what little extra tp gain you have from the dancer alone, not including the added speed of the fight from melees hitting harder.

[Shadowhusky]

Urat, please stop talking about stuff you don't have/won't have. Just please stop talking in general. As someone else said, you're shitting up this thread.

[Toth]

Why is Urat posting about DNC endgame stuff when he isn't even at an end game level....

C'mon.

[Flippant]

Relic feet + af hands alone make steps borderline 100% accurate.

Toss in couple pieces of acc gear and your set. I'd suggest /nin for utsu ni/ichi for AoE and other various moves.

A skilled dancers on hnms etc can have all 3 steps tier 5. Quick>Box3>stutter3>quick>box>stutter and repear those last three.

lol

Are you even level 75 yet?

[Tsutsumiko]

I'm positive there are dancers out there who get a spot in allies for HNM like cerb, khim, gods, and kings, but nobody talks about their success there. Dancers only talk about the lowman things they do and the community accepts that they just aren't worth a pt slot on "real" endgame.

And.. if steps are really nigh 100% on HNM, can a dancer maintain getting 30% tp every 30seconds with a B+ weapon that in all likelyhood will hit for 0 on mobs like this?

My experience from when I used to do end game like ...8~10 months ago or so (Yes I did have DNC at 75 then)

I never tried on Cerb as I was always WHM for Barspells or RDM for Stun. Same jobs for Khim. Even if I did try Cerb, lowering his magic resistance from near infinite down by a bit doesn't equate to much so I would think this would be worthless.

Gods: You do no damage. NONE. ZIP. You can't hit for more than 1 or 2 and the other hits are just wiffs. It's difficult to have any TP and steps still miss, even with AF. I haven't tried since I got the AF2 and NFR though. Will get back to you there.

Kings is suicide. Turtle is probably feasible but my LS never claimed. Fafnir is hilariously bad. You can't hit the damn thing and the /THF for SA you suggested is...well...it's Fafnir. /breaklinkshell for trying that stupid stuff.

Tiamat is the same thing.

While DNC is King (or Queen) of low man stuff, HNMs are not low man so therefore DNC falls by the way side. I'm all for people letting me go as DNC instead though to try more things just... LS leaders don't have faith in DNCs and as such you rarely get to test much.

tl;dr: Job is too weak and inaccurate to get the TP to put up steps. Remedying with SA causes flail and you getting kicked.

[urat]

Has anyone ever tried kiting as dnc via fan dance, shadows, desperate flourish and chocobo jig?

Just an idea, but I don't know how well it'd work

[Thunder]

You wont cause flail unless you pull hate and that isn't happening with SAing stutter step.

And like gods, where you hit for 0-2 and have crappy acc, NFR will help out greatly; you'd only have to land one step because the next one in the cycle would be SA'd. It should also go without saying that +30% macc to your blms/brds/rdms would be pretty game breaking.

Also, on Cerberus I was curious to see how potent it'd be since death blossom's magic evasion was able to take mobs' immunities off. And hell, lowering resist rates by ~1/3 is a pretty big deal, I'm pretty optimistic and am thinking it'll fair pretty well.

[Talint]

Has anyone ever tried kiting as dnc via fan dance, shadows, desperate flourish and chocobo jig?

Just an idea, but I don't know how well it'd work

No. Chocobo Jig wears off the moment you perform any action on a mob, or the mob lands any action on you.

How do you not know that as a level 66 dancer?

[Klain]

Urat, For the love of Altana please stop talking.