1str no longer = 1attack

[wintersquall]

i'm waiting for someone like ruke to post post-update parses before i flip out, but i'm pretty worried. and i cancelled my WoTG pre-order too just in case... i'll be out of town until well after it goes live and we know just how bad this is.

se needs to stop screwing with the base mechanics of how the world works after the game's been running for FIVE goddamn YEARS, and make gear available to create the balance they're looking for. stop being lazy gdi. like omg, what if grips actually DID something, and you didn't have to change the friggin damage formulas to even out 2H users?

[Khrno]

I really don't see the reason for people to be complaining about this. (crapcrapcrap) Stop complaining for Christ's sake!

What the hell are you talking about?

Are you saying that the damage done right now, which is way lower than it used to be before the first Octuber (or whenever it was) 2-handed update, is not reason to complain?

One thing is to get over-buffed up and then taken back to normal, and another very different thing is to get over-buffed up and then get nerfed from your original damage.

That's a ridiculous thing to do.

[Shamaya]

I tested the dex:accuracy ratio even though I assumed it to be just like the attack. It's 0.8 as well. I have low staff skill on bard so I went out to Elshimo Lowlands OP, targeted furrier. My base dex is an even number, not an odd, so that didn't screw anything up.

+33acc = low evasion
+32acc = normal evasion

22acc +14dex = cons low
22+14*(.8 ) = 33.2 = 33
21acc +14 dex = cons normal
21+14*(.8 ) = 32.2 = 32

So 1dex = 0.8acc. The reason I went with such a high amount of dex is because I wanted to see if the ratio was 0.75acc for every dex, but I see that this is not so.

+32acc=Normal
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...119_203109.jpg
+33acc=Low
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...119_203041.jpg
+21acc+14dex=Normal
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...119_202856.jpg
+22acc+14dex=Low
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...119_202922.jpg

Also looking at pics 2 and 3, the .8:1 attack:str ratio, as opposed to a ratio of .75 or .85. Well, it could be between those two values, but if it is, I don't see why they'd make it anything else other than 0.8. 0.75 and 0.85 would have given different attack values and evasion /checks after truncated decimals with the 14 dex and 17 str I used (though I never intended to test attack here, other people are doing that and it's easy) -
14*0.8=11.2
14*0.85=11.9 (mm crap, I see truncated this would = the same as 0.8 )
14*0.75=10.5
17*0.8=13.6
17*0.85=14.45 (though in this case it wouldn't have)
17*0.75=12.75

I assume the game truncates here, as it does with most steps of most formulas.

Edit: Wanted to edit this on here sooner, for the dex thing I didn't take into account how my base dex could have fucked up my overall value for dex:acc. It could have. Same for the atk:str if the base str wasn't taken into account prior to the calculation. Would have edited earlier but my internet went out.

[fantasticdan]

Did they fix penta/guillotine accuracy to make up for the renerf?

[Khrno]

Did they fix penta/guillotine accuracy to make up for the renerf?

lol silly question.

[Kael]

[attachment=1:31217yws]img_20071119_210937.png[/attachment:31217yws][attachment=0:31217yws]img_20071119_210949.png[/attachment:31217yws]

This is me vs Imps in Mire.

TP Gear:
Hagun+Axe grip
Turban
Haubergeon+1
O Kote
Shm Haidate
Hachiman Sune-ate
Amemet Mantle+1
Swift Belt
Rajas Ring+Ulthalams Ring
Brutal Earring+Mermans Earring
Lightning Bow
Chiv Chain

I made it to 75 a few weeks before the godly patch. I dont have the greatest armor setup but its not horrible either. Havent gotten a lot of things most people here have as this is my third job and most of my LS items are for other jobs. PLD and DRK.

WS Gear:
Same weapons
Hachiman Jinpachi
Hauby+1
Saotome Kote+1
Royal Knights legs ( As of last patch these where good +2 STR and Dex and +3 Attack so basically +2 Str +2 Dex +2 Acc and +5 Attack)
Hachiman Sune-ate
Warwolf Belt
Amemet Mantle+1
Flame Ring+Rajas Ring
Snow Gorget
Brutal Earring+Mermans Earring

[Kael]

[attachment=1:hez17dxv]img_20071119_211005.png[/attachment:hez17dxv][attachment=0:hez17dxv]img_20071119_211008.png[/attachment:hez17dxv]

[Wolfknight]

some quick lolrabbit testing that made me sad ; just did each ws with each weapon once quick at 100% tp on sam/war(446 attack, 80+68 str, gorget, overwhelm lvl3)
Soboro:
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2...soborotest.jpg

Onimaru:
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2...nimarutest.jpg

Hagun:
http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2.../haguntest.jpg

So far I think this update went too far.

gonna do some more hagun now for 200%

[Amele]

wait what?
it went from 1.75 2.00 2.50 to 1.75 2.25 3.0?

I was a bit suprised myself. it's possible instead of changing ftp, they changed the WSC mods

fTP for y/g/k pre update: 1.5 2.0 2.5.
fTP for y/g/k post patch: 1.75 2.0 2.5

if they reduced the WSC mods, that actually makes gimp sams *closer* to elite sams in terms of what their y/g/k's can do; which I think everyone here can agree is a step backward both in terms of complaints and job balance.

they've obviously reduced *Something* it could be the pdif spread, the level corrections for 2h; the cRatio spread; the wsc's the fTP's or some combination of such. it's gonna take a day or two to figure it out I think.

the first reports are not exactly good news (especially for dark knights) in some ways I hope SE did fuck this up because otherwise they might as well not have made any changes at all to 2h from the beginning.

For example:
Tabarzin = 10.21 DPS
Toporok = 10.95 DPS

Comparable. But once you grab a second Tabarzin and a Suppa, the 0.8 Delay multiplier becomes a 1.25 DPS multiplier.
Tabarzin x2 = 12.76 DPS
Toporok = 10.95 DPS

(just trimmed because I don't disagree with your overall assessment, just the scale) but you're also missing the effect of doubled fstr - tabarzin has an fstr cap of 13 (which is high, for even just greater colibri you'll need over 115 strength to cap that during TP) which gets applied twice. toporok applies in the area of 13 fstr, once. (assuming the same 115 strength)

so it's Tabarzin x2 = 16.15 to toporok's 12.50 or a 29.2% dps gap.

[rath]

I do not think it affected drk WS at all really, other then the loss of attack and accuracy. I lost 29 attack from this update and only notice a small difference in damage. The only thing noticable on DRK is the accuracy on mobs above EM. It requires using slightly more acc gear then before to hit the cap (without brd or sushi).

Basically I just had to use potent again for TPing. Not a big deal really.

[Leroy]

I do not think it affected drk WS at all really, other then the loss of attack and accuracy. I lost 29 attack from this update and only notice a small difference in damage. The only thing noticable on DRK is the accuracy on mobs above EM. It requires using slightly more acc gear then before to hit the cap (without brd or sushi).

Basically I just had to use potent again for TPing. Not a big deal really.

Have you even paid attention in this thread? A pimped out DRK hitting a 100 dam age spinning slash is fucked up.

[kuronosan]

What I don't like is that SE promised to make two-handed weapons more appealing, and all they have done is make them more hated.

[fantasticdan]

Did they fix penta/guillotine accuracy to make up for the renerf?

lol silly question.

Is that a no?

[rath]

I do not think it affected drk WS at all really, other then the loss of attack and accuracy. I lost 29 attack from this update and only notice a small difference in damage. The only thing noticable on DRK is the accuracy on mobs above EM. It requires using slightly more acc gear then before to hit the cap (without brd or sushi).

Basically I just had to use potent again for TPing. Not a big deal really.

Have you even paid attention in this thread? A pimped out DRK hitting a 100 dam age spinning slash is fucked up.

Check the TP on that, I would bet it was the second hit in a DA proc and he missed the main hit.

[Holsety]

I do not think it affected drk WS at all really, other then the loss of attack and accuracy. I lost 29 attack from this update and only notice a small difference in damage. The only thing noticable on DRK is the accuracy on mobs above EM. It requires using slightly more acc gear then before to hit the cap (without brd or sushi).

Basically I just had to use potent again for TPing. Not a big deal really.

Have you even paid attention in this thread? A pimped out DRK hitting a 100 dam age spinning slash is fucked up.

Check the TP on that, I would bet it was the second hit in a DA proc and he missed the main hit.

It wasn't. I took that SS, and all of his WS were doing 100-300 damage, with 300+ being very rare.

[Yuffy~]

What I don't like is that SE promised to make two-handed weapons more appealing, and all they have done is make them more hated.

was thinking the same

an other update made with the power of sake and whisky?

they should have let the things how they were, Ridills and BB MNK dominated for years, whats wrong with the wind turning? it helps everyone in the end, E peen off please.

[rath]

Could be something with the level correction they played around with before. On normal merit mobs the difference is not that big of a deal.

[Vail]

I remember SE wanting HNMs to be feared, guess they didn't want people throwing melees at them and ripping them apart in minutes

[Krelian]

I remember SE wanting HNMs to be feared, guess they didn't want people throwing melees at them and ripping them apart in minutes

Right, but a BLM doing 1000 spells back to back with gjallarballad and no fear of pulling hate how the emnity is now is perfectly O.K. Someone just needs to goto their office and teach them how the game is really played.

[Judai]

No more 20 minute Fafhoggs now.

huh? It took us 15-20m to kill Faf before the 2H patch, lol.. idk wtf you talking bout~

I think most people need to go back and add some Acc and shit to their WS gear and then look into damage.