Prelim BST Update

[Slott]

The other night I was messing with this. I ended up just spamming NQ jug pets as buffers. Through multiple attempts I can see the potential of this ability within Exp Parties. When you think about it, you have a free 3-4k buffer just sitting there, slightly more if you reward it while it's taking a beating. That's 3-4k+ the WHM doesn't have to heal the party. I had our THF SATA me as well as myself Provoking and Rampaging to then Snarl and have the NIN try his best to regain hate. The only way he got hate back was from the death of Carrie.

It made for a very fun exp party. We were even contemplating using Accomplice on the WHM or SAM to add to the hate.

Not to derail, but I don't see how using accomplice would add any hate to you. Accomplice adds the hate straight to the thief, and no other. In no way shape or form will the hate gained by accomplice ever be redirected to any other member, unless another thief uses it against the first one. I guess using accomplice would lower the hate the whitemage or sam had, making it easier for you to pick up hate, (But i think the ninja's ability to gain hate back was in question here, not the sam or whitemage) but I just hope you don't misinterpret the ability. Using it on the ninja would obviously ruin their hate build. Accomplice doesn't stack with trick attack. A thief's hate is not transfered via trick attack, just the damage performed during it.

Back to your normal beastly routines now :]

[Spur]

I wonder if pets can be drawn in. If not then BST could use stay where the party wants the mob to go, then run up to mob, get hate, and use snarl. Easy hate over long distances.

Then use a tiger jug to kite it back if needed.

[Tricen]

The other night I was messing with this. I ended up just spamming NQ jug pets as buffers. Through multiple attempts I can see the potential of this ability within Exp Parties. When you think about it, you have a free 3-4k buffer just sitting there, slightly more if you reward it while it's taking a beating. That's 3-4k+ the WHM doesn't have to heal the party. I had our THF SATA me as well as myself Provoking and Rampaging to then Snarl and have the NIN try his best to regain hate. The only way he got hate back was from the death of Carrie.

It made for a very fun exp party. We were even contemplating using Accomplice on the WHM or SAM to add to the hate.

Not to derail, but I don't see how using accomplice would add any hate to you. Accomplice adds the hate straight to the thief, and no other. In no way shape or form will the hate gained by accomplice ever be redirected to any other member, unless another thief uses it against the first one. I guess using accomplice would lower the hate the whitemage or sam had, making it easier for you to pick up hate, (But i think the ninja's ability to gain hate back was in question here, not the sam or whitemage) but I just hope you don't misinterpret the ability. Using it on the ninja would obviously ruin their hate build. Accomplice doesn't stack with trick attack. A thief's hate is not transfered via trick attack, just the damage performed during it.

Back to your normal beastly routines now :]

I thought sneak/trick attack gave whatever hate you had to the plyer infront of you?

[Varrin]

I wonder if pets can be drawn in. If not then BST could use stay where the party wants the mob to go, then run up to mob, get hate, and use snarl. Easy hate over long distances.

Then use a tiger jug to kite it back if needed.

Pets can be drawn in, unfortunately.

[Slott]

The other night I was messing with this. I ended up just spamming NQ jug pets as buffers. Through multiple attempts I can see the potential of this ability within Exp Parties. When you think about it, you have a free 3-4k buffer just sitting there, slightly more if you reward it while it's taking a beating. That's 3-4k+ the WHM doesn't have to heal the party. I had our THF SATA me as well as myself Provoking and Rampaging to then Snarl and have the NIN try his best to regain hate. The only way he got hate back was from the death of Carrie.

It made for a very fun exp party. We were even contemplating using Accomplice on the WHM or SAM to add to the hate.

Not to derail, but I don't see how using accomplice would add any hate to you. Accomplice adds the hate straight to the thief, and no other. In no way shape or form will the hate gained by accomplice ever be redirected to any other member, unless another thief uses it against the first one. I guess using accomplice would lower the hate the whitemage or sam had, making it easier for you to pick up hate, (But i think the ninja's ability to gain hate back was in question here, not the sam or whitemage) but I just hope you don't misinterpret the ability. Using it on the ninja would obviously ruin their hate build. Accomplice doesn't stack with trick attack. A thief's hate is not transfered via trick attack, just the damage performed during it.

Back to your normal beastly routines now :]

I thought sneak/trick attack gave whatever hate you had to the plyer infront of you?

I hope that's a joke, and i'm getting wooshed, but no that's not how ta works.

The only hate the player infront gets is the hate generated by the damage of the trick attack +- (enmity calculations, from the thief i think?) In no way shape or form does the entirety of a thief's hate ever get transfered to another player.

[pohibaba]

In no way shape or form does the entirety of a thief's hate ever get transfered to another player.

Then why don't THFs ever get hat----oh, wait a minute.....

Yes, very bad lolthf joke. I appologize in advance.

[Tricen]

For some reason I thought one gave hate for the damage dealt and the other gave the hate you already had. MUH BAD

[suji]

Couldn't you still do this, but you would have to just waste a jug pet? I know, thats still pretty stupid, but it could be useful in an emergency or on something that is going to take a while to kill.

I'm talking about big hate buildup, when BST fight NMs that require huge amount of pet swaps, afte ra while the BST himself becomes the target far too often depending what he's done in the fight. Now that you can snarl it all away, building hate is np.

Yea, that's a pretty cool idea, though if you're being careful about not using stuff in range (except Fight of course) that cumulative hate is not really a huge deal. I guess if you make a mistake and want to clear it out, this would be pretty sweet..

I was pretty bummed when I heard it was only for jug pets too. BST solo exp would have definitely sped up a lot if not, but so it goes. As some other folks have mentioned, there's still a lot of potential to be had in applications hwere jug pets were the only option (most assaults, salvage, ENMs, etc).

[Schultz]

Not to derail, but I don't see how using accomplice would add any hate to you. Accomplice adds the hate straight to the thief, and no other. In no way shape or form will the hate gained by accomplice ever be redirected to any other member, unless another thief uses it against the first one. I guess using accomplice would lower the hate the whitemage or sam had, making it easier for you to pick up hate, (But i think the ninja's ability to gain hate back was in question here, not the sam or whitemage) but I just hope you don't misinterpret the ability. Using it on the ninja would obviously ruin their hate build. Accomplice doesn't stack with trick attack. A thief's hate is not transfered via trick attack, just the damage performed during it.

Back to your normal beastly routines now :]

Nah the NIN didn't have issues with hate (much... but that's normal in Merit parties). It wasn't a case of him being unable to hold hate, it was just we were messing with it so much that he only secured it briefly. I've seen worse tanks in my time, this guy was above a normal standard that you would wish of a tank.

[Howard Roark]

ive been loving snarl especially vs colibiri since if i ws right after a tp attack i can use sushi vs birds since they shouldnt have the tp to steal food before i can snarl

not gaming breaking but it gives bst a nice added edge

[Max™]

ive been loving snarl especially vs colibiri since if i ws right after a tp attack i can use sushi vs birds since they shouldnt have the tp to steal food before i can snarl

not gaming breaking but it gives bst a nice added edge

Kudos on that, I was thinking about that, letting Bsts in parties (which doesn't happen much, but hey) get away with that.

My Bst friend uses it in Campaign, pop a low jug, beat on stuff, and since with the lower mobs and his gear set up nicely (helps having a War critiquing your shit when you're used to dealing with T mobs) he can drop 800-1k Rampages regularly and get beat on, he just snarls it to a jug and if the jug dies, so what, hates gone now.

[Ahlah]

I have been testing BST/DRK as potential back up tank. Basically stack up +enm and build hate with sleep/bind/stun etc.

http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/c...img_0067-1.jpg

I only hit Snarl when Marid has 5% hp left, Marid turned to CC till it's killed. Before Snarl was used, I only pulled hate from PLD/NIN twice - first time shortly after engage, when I used Last Resort and Souleater.

Unlike NIN/DRK, BST can only rely on DRK spells/JA to build hate, absord spells are effective but cost more mp. With double ballad + refresh BST/DRK should be able to generate sufficient hate to back up tanking when the situation calls for it.

Will try to persuade my salvage group to tank LAC with CC during Brainjack phase in next silver sea run. Should be fun

[Gunslinger]

From my experience snarl may generate a small amount of enmity on the pet when it is used + your own enmity as well.

Did lamia 13 the other night and popped a pet, snarled, and it held through casting (cures, buffs, etc all within detection range) when I had no previous enmity. Don't know if it transfers the users enmity profile, have capped enmity merits... maybe that helps it some?

Either way, loving it so far. I've become MPK SATA proof and can solo things I never could before because I finally don't have to hold back damage. T-VT mobs have never been more possible :D

[Metah]

This should be sweet for any 50+ BCs.

Edit: Thinking about it though, I don't know why people are always saying they're turned around on BST. I've been able to melee pretty much every EXP mob I've fought on BST solo/duo/whatever without getting hate over my pet, unless I pull off a sweet WS or like 3 crits in a row.

[Gunslinger]

I started pulling hate while I was meriting axe. Only made it worse when I got enmity merits and temprence axe :/

Using natural pets it was never really a problem though. Jug pets were just naturally worse at it, until now.

[solsovly]

This should be sweet for any 50+ BCs.

Edit: Thinking about it though, I don't know why people are always saying they're turned around on BST. I've been able to melee pretty much every EXP mob I've fought on BST solo/duo/whatever without getting hate over my pet, unless I pull off a sweet WS or like 3 crits in a row.

No offense, but it's probably your gear/merits if you are not pulling hate on xp mobs with a pet.

At 75, I pull hate on EM pets with straight melee, not including ws. This includes pets like Leeches against trolls, Korrigans against Goobbues, Bunnies against Dhalmels and I have full -enmity merits as well. Pulling hate on EM pets is actually my preferred way to fight things as it allows me to co-tank and keep my pet alive. This will allow you to start soloing T-VT without pet swaps.

Cotanking efficiently was nearly impossible to do on jugpets before the snarl update as you spent more time tanking then dealing damage. Now you can deal damage, shed hate, regain hate by dd'ing, shed hate etc very efficiently. This was a great update.

[OctavoGilgamesh]

This should be sweet for any 50+ BCs.

Edit: Thinking about it though, I don't know why people are always saying they're turned around on BST. I've been able to melee pretty much every EXP mob I've fought on BST solo/duo/whatever without getting hate over my pet, unless I pull off a sweet WS or like 3 crits in a row.

No offense, but it's probably your gear/merits if you are not pulling hate on xp mobs with a pet.

At 75, I pull hate on EM pets with straight melee, not including ws. This includes pets like Leeches against trolls, Korrigans against Goobbues, Bunnies against Dhalmels and I have full -enmity merits as well. Pulling hate on EM pets is actually my preferred way to fight things as it allows me to co-tank and keep my pet alive. This will allow you to start soloing T-VT without pet swaps.

Cotanking efficiently was nearly impossible to do on jugpets before the snarl update as you spent more time tanking then dealing damage. Now you can deal damage, shed hate, regain hate by dd'ing, shed hate etc very efficiently. This was a great update.

This man speaks great truth. Co tanking is the fastest way to solo on bst @ 74-75. You just have to know when to back off ><

[Alistaire]

Either way, Bst/Nin is an awesome SATA partner now, could think of some interesting things with it and that new Nin hate "hiding" effect.

The NIN hate "hiding" effect, like most of the other job adjustments in that announcement, never happened.

[Avanarius]

Off topic, but did anyone else notice an excessive amount of hp recovered by pets while standing still sub bst?

I was leveling sch/bst level 5 and just standing still the pet was recovering 20% hp a tick. Is this to compromise the low hp of pets at that level? or is it a glitch?

[Delekii]

Either way, Bst/Nin is an awesome SATA partner now, could think of some interesting things with it and that new Nin hate "hiding" effect.

The NIN hate "hiding" effect, like most of the other job adjustments in that announcement, never happened. yet

They said multiple times that only the first 3-4 job adjustments would come with the most recent update, which they did (thf, bst, whm.. one more i forget). They also said that they were CONSIDERING many of the other changes, and that they certainly wouldn't be in the game until at least January.