Repose (Neptune or Apollo Staff)?

[Jeryhn]

Then its easy to test. Go to Rabao, switch to RDM/BLM, activate Elemental Seal and Silence a mob naked and in full MND. Note the duration with each cast. Go back to Rabao and use the Nomad Moogle to switch your subjob back and forth to reset ES timer.

Compare with a test with Aquilo's and Auster's Staff.

[Max™]

Then its easy to test. Go to Rabao, switch to RDM/BLM, activate Elemental Seal and Silence a mob naked and in full MND. Note the duration with each cast. Go back to Rabao and use the Nomad Moogle to switch your subjob back and forth to reset ES timer.

Compare with a test with Aquilo's and Auster's Staff.

Wait, you can reset ES timer like that?

Last I checked changing jobs doesn't reset timers.

[Liselle]

When did you check? Cuz last I did, the only thing it didn't reset was two-hours.

[Jeryhn]

Then its easy to test. Go to Rabao, switch to RDM/BLM, activate Elemental Seal and Silence a mob naked and in full MND. Note the duration with each cast. Go back to Rabao and use the Nomad Moogle to switch your subjob back and forth to reset ES timer.

Compare with a test with Aquilo's and Auster's Staff.

Wait, you can reset ES timer like that?

Last I checked changing jobs doesn't reset timers.

Only for your Two Hour ability.

I did this several times in the Tavnazian Safehold trying to find the perfect /wait time for Convert > Cure 4.

[Max™]

Just seems weird, I could swear it didn't work for Berserk or Warrior's Charge, but it's been a while, don't remember if it worked for Call Wyvern either, I assumed it didn't, so I didn't try to do that, wish I had when I was soloing, losing the rat for 15 minutes sucks.

[Zoot]

Maybe I'm missing a concept here. If I am I'm probably going to get wooshed. =x

This will show whether INT and MND effect partial resist duration? Won't those mobs cap out anyhow? I really am sorry if I'm just not following.

I am thinking about testing this when I get off of work, actually. I can't find any good information.

[Jeryhn]

This will show whether INT and MND effect partial resist duration? Won't those mobs cap out anyhow? I really am sorry if I'm just not following.

ES should remove any resistance rate at all. Your goal is to find if INT/MND effect the duration at all.

If you end up with the same duration each time, you are likely hitting a cap, and further testing on higher-level mobs will need to be tried.

[BeowulfFFXI]

Another improper analogy. When casting nukes, aquillo's affects the resist rate, while jupiter's is affecting the MAB+%. When we're talking about Repose, we're talking about straight resist rates (akin to silence, gravity, etc).

Cool, but that wasn't what I was contesting. I was contesting the point where +skill outweighs the benefits of a HQ staff, of which everyone quoted me the +15% accuracy. I'm just curious where that came from, sorry I asked!

Then perhaps you should try being more consistent in what you are trying to say.

Oh, I don't believe that elemental staffs give both a bonus to damage and also accuracy to nukes, while just a bonus to accuracy of enfeebles. But I'm sure there is a test somewhere, perhaps on a JP blog, that proves me wrong! I guess I'll accept that as fact too!

[Jeryhn]

Another improper analogy. When casting nukes, aquillo's affects the resist rate, while jupiter's is affecting the MAB+%. When we're talking about Repose, we're talking about straight resist rates (akin to silence, gravity, etc).

Cool, but that wasn't what I was contesting. I was contesting the point where +skill outweighs the benefits of a HQ staff, of which everyone quoted me the +15% accuracy. I'm just curious where that came from, sorry I asked!

Then perhaps you should try being more consistent in what you are trying to say.

Oh, I don't believe that elemental staffs give both a bonus to damage and also accuracy to nukes, while just a bonus to accuracy of enfeebles. But I'm sure there is a test somewhere, perhaps on a JP blog, that proves me wrong! I guess I'll accept that as fact too!

I found that link I posted before using Google. It was top o' the list.
Are you trying to say you're incapable of searching for a test that better suits your tastes yourself?

Seriously, at this point, you're arguing for the sake of arguing on the internets.

[Zoot]

I suppose I could try naked, full mind, and then varying degrees of adding in +MND. I only worry that my base mind may cap out the resistance of a level 45(?) mob.

If that's so it's going to be hell to test 'cause I can't think of anywhere else as convenient lol;;;

[Max™]

I suppose I could try naked, full mind, and then varying degrees of adding in +MND. I only worry that my base mind may cap out the resistance of a level 45(?) mob.

If that's so it's going to be hell to test 'cause I can't think of anywhere else as convenient lol;;;

Nashmau.

[Zoot]

According to the link you posted previously (and I have seen this before, and it is one of the main reasons I macro in INT and MND) there is evidence that mind insreases the duration of paralyze. Basically the same type of test. The "exp" set or balance of MND and Enfeebling skill performed the best. That was actually the link I was looking for, and for which I had asked if it had been disproven.

I think there are few times when you will cap out on duration, at least not enough to make a seperate macro for not equipping in INT and MND to their respective spells.

That is not to say that I will not do this for silence, as well.

[Khamsin]

Everyone already knows the impact of MND on Paralyze, Slow, etc. I think the question we were trying to prove was whether elemental staves make it 15% easier to land... despite such things having long since become common knowledge, having been thoroughly tested once upon a time on a peer-reviewed NA blog (or JP, doesn't matter) and having since been indoctrinated into our online culture and accepted as cold, hard fact. It no longer needs questioning. The claim was once met with much skepticism, but was finally proven and the scientific community had finally come to a consensus on the matter. Did you question your third grade math teacher when they said 2 x 2 = 4 or that Pluto existed? Did you request to see proofs of number theory, or star charts and gravitational and orbital calculations?

Don't get me wrong, it's always good to think for yourself and to question things. But in matters like 2 x 2 = 4, the existence of Pluto, or elemental staves boosting your damage and magic accuracy by 15% equally, there's just no point in questioning. The independent critical thinker will accept the claim, not dispute it.

[Bagel]

Everyone already knows the impact of MND on Paralyze, Slow, etc. I think the question we were trying to prove was whether elemental staves make it 15% easier to land... despite such things having long since become common knowledge, having been thoroughly tested once upon a time on a peer-reviewed NA blog (or JP, doesn't matter) and having since been indoctrinated into our online culture and accepted as cold, hard fact. It no longer needs questioning. The claim was once met with much skepticism, but was finally proven and the scientific community had finally come to a consensus on the matter. Did you question your third grade math teacher when they said 2 x 2 = 4 or that Pluto existed? Did you request to see proofs of number theory, or star charts and gravitational and orbital calculations?

Don't get me wrong, it's always good to think for yourself and to question things. But in matters like 2 x 2 = 4, the existence of Pluto, or elemental staves boosting your damage and magic accuracy by 15% equally, there's just no point in questioning. The independent critical thinker will accept the claim, not dispute it.

I bet you believe that 9/11 was plotted by Saddam Hussein and Adaman Hauberk is purple.

[Liselle]

According to the link you posted previously (and I have seen this before, and it is one of the main reasons I macro in INT and MND) there is evidence that mind insreases the duration of paralyze. Basically the same type of test. The "exp" set or balance of MND and Enfeebling skill performed the best. That was actually the link I was looking for, and for which I had asked if it had been disproven.

You might be referring to Ezzelin's test, maybe?

[Zoot]

Yes, it was posted earlier. I was pretty oblivious to that for awhile though!

[cassiraa]

Beowulf,
Onus of Proof:

Outside a legal context, "burden of proof" means that someone suggesting a new theory or stating a claim must provide evidence to support it: it is not sufficient to say "you can't disprove this." Specifically, when anyone is making a bold claim, it is not someone else's responsibility to disprove the claim, but is rather the responsibility of the person who is making the bold claim to prove it. In short, X is not proven simply because "not X" cannot be proven.

The less reasonable a statement seems, the more proof it requires. The scientific consensus on cold fusion is a good example. The majority believes this can not really work, because believing that it would do so would force the alteration of a great many other tested and generally accepted theories about nuclear physics.



When you've become at LEAST a member of the community [i.e. more than at least 50 posts or 6 months, whichever comes second] then you can tout your theories and try to play your "Prove me wrong" and someone might take the time to do more than a few Google searches that you could do on your own. However: At this time you are nothing more than a pidgin. Fly in, Shit all over the place, And will probably fly away soon. If you're unconvinced about the things we say, It's YOUR prerogative to prove us wrong.


BTW: Someone was saying Craftermath from Zam was going to try to "invade BG" Place your bets?

[BeowulfFFXI]

Everyone already knows the impact of MND on Paralyze, Slow, etc. I think the question we were trying to prove was whether elemental staves make it 15% easier to land... despite such things having long since become common knowledge, having been thoroughly tested once upon a time on a peer-reviewed NA blog (or JP, doesn't matter) and having since been indoctrinated into our online culture and accepted as cold, hard fact. It no longer needs questioning. The claim was once met with much skepticism, but was finally proven and the scientific community had finally come to a consensus on the matter. Did you question your third grade math teacher when they said 2 x 2 = 4 or that Pluto existed? Did you request to see proofs of number theory, or star charts and gravitational and orbital calculations?

Don't get me wrong, it's always good to think for yourself and to question things. But in matters like 2 x 2 = 4, the existence of Pluto, or elemental staves boosting your damage and magic accuracy by 15% equally, there's just no point in questioning. The independent critical thinker will accept the claim, not dispute it.

Except it hasn't. So far nobody yet has been able to show me a single test that indicated a 15% increase in magic accuracy for elemental staffs. Also, if someone told you Pluto existed, yet couldn't show you any calculations, a picture or anything about it at all, would you believe it existed?

[BeowulfFFXI]

Beowulf,
Onus of Proof:

Outside a legal context, "burden of proof" means that someone suggesting a new theory or stating a claim must provide evidence to support it: it is not sufficient to say "you can't disprove this." Specifically, when anyone is making a bold claim, it is not someone else's responsibility to disprove the claim, but is rather the responsibility of the person who is making the bold claim to prove it. In short, X is not proven simply because "not X" cannot be proven.

And you must know that proving a negative is a logical fallacy right?

[Ambir]

Does an Elemental staff increase the accuracy of enfeebles? Yes
Does a HQ Elemental Staff increase the accuracy more than a NQ Staff? Yes
Does an Elemental Staff increase the accuracy by more than the highest Enfeebling skill weapon (Thanatos Baselard)? Yes
All of these differences are significant, and are noticed by RDMs everyday

Is Enfeeble duration affected by Skill or MND? The answer actually is both Skill and MND (and also Elemental Staves which are actually neither) increase duration where duration is variable (eg Paralyze II has a variable duration, Slow II doesn't).
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/jobs.html ... =23;page=1
http://www.geocities.com/fourth_foot_caesura/
(Yes, Allah, I know, but the data is solid, even if some of the interpretations are dodgy)

Does MND affect resist rates? It's always been believed yes, although Skill has more effect. In the early days, there was almost no Skill gear, and mages loaded up on MND to make White Magic Enfeebles stick. The duration data would also seem to support this, and it isn't a huge leap to believe that variable duration is being caused by the same stats that are causing the partial resists.

Is the MagAcc given by NQ/HQ Elemental Staves exactly +10%/+15%? I haven't seen any data to say that it's exactly these numbers, hell I haven't seen any tests tha can pin down MagAcc numbers exactly anyway. The MagAtt stat can be easily quantified, as the differences can be measured exactly in the differences in damage. MagAcc is a different species to pin down exactly, as resist rates are a whole lot harder to measure exactly. Any experienced RDM will tell you though, that they get less resists with a HQ staff than with anything else, with a NQ Staff second, and a wand/shield third. We may not have numbers, but it's what we do everyday.