Scholar Discussion attempt #2

[Not Kuno]

Next question then:

So, are all Helices the same damage but different element? Or do they increase in potency as you go to higher levels like most BLM spells.

And, more importantly: Enfeebling or Elemental?

Read the thread: Nobody knows yet.

Hence why I was asking--was hoping Kohanacat had gotten a skillup or something while using it so we'd know

This is why I told you to read the thread: He has 75 rdm. He wouldn't get a skillup from it. This was all already said.

[Tahngarthor]

we're all dumb as shit.

Manifestation, Helix. If it works, it's enfeebling. If not, we still don't know, but we know it's not enfeebling.

This.

You dont need to be getting skill ups to figure this out.

[Tanthalas]

Next question then:

So, are all Helices the same damage but different element? Or do they increase in potency as you go to higher levels like most BLM spells.

And, more importantly: Enfeebling or Elemental?

Read the thread: Nobody knows yet.

Hence why I was asking--was hoping Kohanacat had gotten a skillup or something while using it so we'd know

we're all dumb as shit.

Manifestation, Helix. If it works, it's enfeebling. If not, we still don't know, but we know it's not enfeebling.

Divine Seal icon turns off when non-affected spells are cast. Perhaps Manifestation will do the same thing and turn off regardless.

[Tahngarthor]

Divine Seal icon turns off when non-affected spells are cast. Perhaps Manifestation will do the same thing and turn off regardless.

White Strategems do not wear off when you cast Raise as far as I understand, so these may be different.

But the point is moot, because if it wears off and doesnt have an effect, it wont have an effect. If it does work, it will have an effect. And in this case, the effect is obvious (Increased potency). A better choice would be the lv55 ability which makes enfeebles AoE. That would be REALLY obvious.

[Evelyn]

could still be dark! >.>;

[Genosync]

Divine Seal icon turns off when non-affected spells are cast. Perhaps Manifestation will do the same thing and turn off regardless.

White Strategems do not wear off when you cast Raise as far as I understand, so these may be different.

But the point is moot, because if it wears off and doesnt have an effect, it wont have an effect. If it does work, it will have an effect. And in this case, the effect is obvious (Increased potency). A better choice would be the lv40 ability which makes enfeebles AoE. That would be REALLY obvious.

fixed, read the notes again, you have the order messed up just like I did

[Hamusutaa]

One thing I'm curious about is the 246 skill that Light and Dart Arts raise skills to as a /SCH without that skill (or an E or lower in the skill, like RDM Dark). It doesn't line up with any other known skill rating. An LS-mate said he got 202 skill as a BST65/SCH10 using light arts, which puts it in line with C+, but that only caps at 230 at 75.

Has anyone else tried light or dart arts with a job that's not at 75?

[whoami]

those bastards they killed kenny. joking there but no more being able to go into - 2 charges with macros now. ;; damn ninja fixes. anything else change for sch like weather spells?

[Kaslo]

One thing I'm curious about is the 246 skill that Light and Dart Arts raise skills to as a /SCH without that skill (or an E or lower in the skill, like RDM Dark). It doesn't line up with any other known skill rating. An LS-mate said he got 202 skill as a BST65/SCH10 using light arts, which puts it in line with C+, but that only caps at 230 at 75.

Has anyone else tried light or dart arts with a job that's not at 75?

Sure 202 isn't B skill @65?

[Hamusutaa]

One thing I'm curious about is the 246 skill that Light and Dart Arts raise skills to as a /SCH without that skill (or an E or lower in the skill, like RDM Dark). It doesn't line up with any other known skill rating. An LS-mate said he got 202 skill as a BST65/SCH10 using light arts, which puts it in line with C+, but that only caps at 230 at 75.

Has anyone else tried light or dart arts with a job that's not at 75?

Sure 202 isn't B skill @65?

Yes. For reference:
http://wiki.bluegartr.com/Skill_Caps/Warrior
http://wiki.bluegartr.com/Skill_Caps/Thief

[Kohanacat]

Yay! SCH65! More information! After I got Modus Veritas my friend Vylia and I went to Diorama to do some more testing. During the duration testing he was on SAM67 then switched to WHM75 for the scaling/mab/barspell tests. If I post anything really obvious, please forgive me, I figured its better to post a little extra then leave something out. I was subbing BLM also for the tests. Also please note, the damage of spells of all types are greatly lowered in Diorama, so don't be too worried about how low they are.

Also, to answer someone above, while leveling I subbed BLM until I got AOE stoneskin, now I only sub WHM since I mainly main heal to exp. Starting around 55ish I had to stop spam nuking and helping PL heal, and now my PL has switched to BRD to level with me and I main heal my parties.

Are Helices Enfeebling or Elemental?
Helices do NOT stack with Manifestation, so they definately are not Enfeebling magic. Thanks for whoever gave that idea.

Do the helices scale by Element/Level Learned? IE, is Hydrohelix[Level 63] better then Geohelix[Level 61]?
Yes, during my testing just now in Diorama we noticed that the helices were scaling. Geohelix was doing 19, Hydrohelix 21, and Anemohelix 23. We tried this a few times incase of resists but it was pretty consistant. Another interesting note is that although they scale, they all cost the same MP so far.

Are helices effected by MAB?
I am pretty sure they effected by MAB, yes. Since we were getting such consistant numbers in Diorama I decided to unequip my Moldy earring to see if it would have any effect. After unequipping Moldy Earring [MAB+5] Geohelix, Hydrohelix, and Anemohelix were each doing 1 less damage with no variation (unless they resisted). This leads me to believe the Moldy Earring was having an effect since no other variables were changed, yet they did all lose 1 damage.

Can Helices be Erased?
Yes, we tried this also.

Do Barspells effect the damage done by helices?
Vylia, the WHM75, has level 3 barspells and was wearing no MBD gear. We did a few casts with the appropriate spells up, and it did 1 less damage every time (Anemohelix 23 --> 22). So they definately can be effected by resistances/barspells.

How does weather effect helices? What is their duration?
I'm still not 100% sure, but I tried to do some better testing on this today in Diorama also. I was just using /clock when it landed and then again when it wore off. Without weather, the time was around 50 seconds, with the appropriate weather on, it lasted around 1 minute and 10 seconds. Once again, these are very rough estimates as my /clocking wasn't precise. Also I'm in Australia and Vylia is in USA so we have no idea if latency may have effected it, but these are the approximate numbers. May last longer on monsters. The 10% weather bonus also seems to apply, but not every time. We randomly saw damage increase from 35 intial damage to 38 initial damage with weather on.

How does Modus Veritas work?
Modus Veritas has a 10 minute recast timer. It must be used *on the mob* *after* a Helix has been cast on the mob. It halves the remaining duration of the helix currently applied to the mob, but doubles the damage per tick (for example, I casted Geohelix on Vylia, and it hit for 35 damage, I immediately used MV on them, and the next tick was for 70 damage). We tested this in Diorama. If you try to use Modus Veritas on a target without a helix applied, it has no effect but makes you wait for the recast.

Thank you for reading
Kohana

[Naramaska]

Huge thanks for the tests, Kohana. Helices are looking more and more solid as an endgame bizarre hybrid DoT/nuke.


Any chance of getting a BRD pal to give you a bunch of INT via etudes? I suspect with damage numbers as low as it will have initially, you'll get more mileage out of INT than MAB.

[ruf]

Nice tests, thanks.

[scratches]

Sorry if someone answered this already, but do the Helices stack? I am wondering if they are similar to the elemental debuffs, where every other element (non-adjacent elements) stack. Several people asked this but if it was tested in the ballista stuff I didn't find it in the post.

[Shadowstalker]

Sorry if someone answered this already, but do the Helices stack? I am wondering if they are similar to the elemental debuffs, where every other element (non-adjacent elements) stack. Several people asked this but if it was tested in the ballista stuff I didn't find it in the post.

Stole my post, omg.

Yeah I was typing this out until I realized it was just posted.

[Aemora]

The Lv73 and Lv75 Helixes shall reign supreme in Dynamis/Limbus/Einherjar!

[Kohanacat]

Sorry if someone answered this already, but do the Helices stack? I am wondering if they are similar to the elemental debuffs, where every other element (non-adjacent elements) stack. Several people asked this but if it was tested in the ballista stuff I didn't find it in the post.

Helices do not stack. We tested this also I just forgot to post it in my findings.

************

Also, I recieved a question in a PM and just incase anyone else was wondering, Scholar weather buffs do indeed trigger the effects on weapons/armor with weather effects on them. I guess I can't vouch for *all* weather effects, but Rain Hat and Desert Boots (+12% Movement Speed) definately add their respective effects with the right weather buff active. ^^

-Kohana^^

[Kohanacat]

Huge thanks for the tests, Kohana. Helices are looking more and more solid as an endgame bizarre hybrid DoT/nuke.


Any chance of getting a BRD pal to give you a bunch of INT via etudes? I suspect with damage numbers as low as it will have initially, you'll get more mileage out of INT than MAB.

Me and Vylia are going to test MAB and INT a bit more when I get to 70. We'll definately get a BRD to come with us for INT etudes, COR for some extra MAB and things like that. Hopefully tomorrow or the day after.

[Khamsin]

Sorry if someone answered this already, but do the Helices stack? I am wondering if they are similar to the elemental debuffs, where every other element (non-adjacent elements) stack. Several people asked this but if it was tested in the ballista stuff I didn't find it in the post.

Helices do not stack. We tested this also I just forgot to post it in my findings.

************

Also, I recieved a question in a PM and just incase anyone else was wondering, Scholar weather buffs do indeed trigger the effects on weapons/armor with weather effects on them. I guess I can't vouch for *all* weather effects, but Rain Hat and Desert Boots (+12% Movement Speed) definately add their respective effects with the right weather buff active. ^^

-Kohana^^

What about helices from different scholars? It would suck if two scholars can't simultaneously "nuke" something. And just to clarify, you only need the weather on yourself to get the full potential of a helix, not zone weather, right?

[Kohanacat]

Sorry if someone answered this already, but do the Helices stack? I am wondering if they are similar to the elemental debuffs, where every other element (non-adjacent elements) stack. Several people asked this but if it was tested in the ballista stuff I didn't find it in the post.

Helices do not stack. We tested this also I just forgot to post it in my findings.

************

Also, I recieved a question in a PM and just incase anyone else was wondering, Scholar weather buffs do indeed trigger the effects on weapons/armor with weather effects on them. I guess I can't vouch for *all* weather effects, but Rain Hat and Desert Boots (+12% Movement Speed) definately add their respective effects with the right weather buff active. ^^

-Kohana^^

What about helices from different scholars? It would suck if two scholars can't simultaneously "nuke" something. And just to clarify, you only need the weather on yourself to get the full potential of a helix, not zone weather, right?

You only need the weather on yourself to get the effects I stated above.

As for multiple scholar helices, I'm really not sure, but if cooperative scholars get high enough on my server to test it out I'll let you know. That is a very good point though... being unable to have multiple scholars use helices might be kind of .