Scholar Discussion attempt #2

[ruf]

Wasn't talking about the game as a whole. I'll keep my optimism to myself ^_^

[Genosync]

Wasn't talking about the game as a whole. I'll keep my optimism to myself ^_^

blame SE for my lack of optimism, and tell them to make salvage drop rates at least slightly reasonable while you're at it

[ruf]

Sure, but you know this means you won't be getting that shiny new bike for Christmas.

[Kaslo]

Wasn't talking about the game as a whole. I'll keep my optimism to myself ^_^

blame SE for my lack of optimism, and tell them to make salvage drop rates at least slightly reasonable while you're at it

You can say that about a ton of things in this game, Northlands Dynamis, Ridill, Dring, ect.

....

Get the fuck over it.

[Toth]

Early to say and hate speculation or guesswork, but does anyone else feel pretty impressed with the degree to which these jobs effectively do exactly what SE promoted them as doing (DNC being great frontline healer useful in small parties and SCH being a powerful DOT mage class)? It's like they actually tested them in real game situations.

Adding: really not saying this as a way to head back to the HNM/endgame debate that's come and gone repeatedly. Just honestly happily surpised at their current potential in exp/small groups.

You're 100% correct. DNC is an insane front line healer and SCH is a powerful DoT/nuking job. Who knew SE would get them right right off the get go? I'm very excited to see what tweaks and additions are in store for each job as time goes on (i.e. Merit 2 abilities, AF bonuses), even moreso than when I leveled PUP.

[Sagacious Sundi]

Are Helices Enfeebling or Elemental?
Helices do NOT stack with Manifestation, so they definately are not Enfeebling magic. Thanks for whoever gave that idea.

Sorry if it's been mentioned, but if not all healing/enhancing spells (Raise/Reraise) work with Accession, isn't it possible that not all enfeebling spells work with Manifestation?

[Toth]

Only enfeebling black magic spells work with Manifestation. Therefore, Slow and Paralyze are out of luck

Still, I do wonder why Raise and Reraise are not usable under Ascension.

[Wizerd]

Are Helices Enfeebling or Elemental?
Helices do NOT stack with Manifestation, so they definately are not Enfeebling magic. Thanks for whoever gave that idea.

Sorry if it's been mentioned, but if not all healing/enhancing spells (Raise/Reraise) work with Accession, isn't it possible that not all enfeebling spells work with Manifestation?

Paralyze and Slow don't work with Manifestation, because they are "white magic". So gay. -_-;

Accession also doesn't work with Warp either, which is Enhancing magic but it's "black magic".

(Sorry if either of those were posted already )

Edit: that's what I get for leaving the post open for 10 minutes, Toth beat me.

[Kaslo]

Paralyze and Slow don't work with Manifestation, because they are "white magic". So gay. -_-;

Don't forget Silence ; ;

[Wizerd]

Paralyze and Slow don't work with Manifestation, because they are "white magic". So gay. -_-;

Don't forget Silence ; ;

Aha, yeah. Well that just takes a whole lot of utility out of the job for Dynamis at the very least, then. They still have Bindga/Graviga though, fortunately..

[LD]

RDM is really gunna be the preferred sub, it seems. RDM has MDB and MAB 1, Fast Cast 2, and the best spells for Manifestation (Dispel, Sleep, Gravity, Bind, Blind) and Accession (Stoneskin, Phalanx, Invisible, Blink, Sneak, lolDeoderize, Aquaviel, and all the elemental Bar- spells.)

The only things WHM and BLM have over it are Erase/Divine Seal and Conserve MP/Elemental Seal, respectively. Don't get me wrong, those are important abilities, but day to day, /RDM is probably going to be the most used.

[Gilthas]

WHM also has status cure spells and cheaper Curaga 1&2 that aren't tied to a 4 minute timer that you might want to use for something else.

[Khamsin]

Just a question: What spells can Scholar use with Manifestation, Accession, and such that a Scholar naturally gets without a sub?

[Toth]

Does Erase work with Accesion btw? Didn't hear if it was yet.

[Kaslo]

Paralyze and Slow don't work with Manifestation, because they are "white magic". So gay. -_-;

Don't forget Silence ; ;

Aha, yeah. Well that just takes a whole lot of utility out of the job for Dynamis at the very least, then. They still have Bindga/Graviga though, fortunately..

They get Sleepga from /rdm too

[LD]

Just a question: What spells can Scholar use with Manifestation, Accession, and such that a Scholar naturally gets without a sub?

Protect & Shell spells up to 4, Cures up to 4, Regen up to 2 (learned earlier than WHM, hoping they eventully give it 3 & 4), MGS spells, and the Storms. Interestingly, it really has no native enfeebles. :/
Also has all nukes up to 3, and Helixes of course, but neither of those can be -ga'd.

I admit I overlooked the -na spells (which, conceivably, can also be -ga'd), but curaga 1 & 2's MP efficiency isn't significan't enough to lose phalanx (among other things) and Curaga 3 isn't subable, so you'll be using Cure 4 as a substitute for that in anycase. Depending on your outlook, -na's can be somewhat situational with Erase being the more commonly used status cure. I didn't say there was no reason to sub WHM, but RDM covers the most ground as a buffer and crowd-controler while aiding other parts of a Scholar's job with its traits (FC for cast and recast time, MAB for nukes and Helixes.)

[Gilthas]

I think I've posted this before, but I have never used Curaga III in an exp party or at HNMs. It simply isn't an important spell.

The way I see it though, any place where you'll need status healing you'll want /WHM. SCH will probably be like a RDM and use /WHM in the same situations that a RDM.

[Khamsin]

Just a question: What spells can Scholar use with Manifestation, Accession, and such that a Scholar naturally gets without a sub?

Protect & Shell spells up to 4, Cures up to 4, Regen up to 2 (learned earlier than WHM, hoping they eventully give it 3 & 4), MGS spells, and the Storms. Interestingly, it really has no native enfeebles. :/
Also has all nukes up to 3, and Helixes of course, but neither of those can be -ga'd.

I admit I overlooked the -na spells (which, conceivably, can also be -ga'd), but curaga 1 & 2's MP efficiency isn't significan't enough to lose phalanx (among other things) and Curaga 3 isn't subable, so you'll be using Cure 4 as a substitute for that in anycase. Depending on your outlook, -na's can be somewhat situational with Erase being the more commonly used status cure. I didn't say there was no reason to sub WHM, but RDM covers the most ground as a buffer and crowd-controler while aiding other parts of a Scholar's job with its traits (FC for cast and recast time, MAB for nukes and Helixes.)

Sneakga and Invisiblega, hm? Interesting. Regen II-ga isn't too bad, either.

[Kyreth]

Even if the damage isn't boosted any further than what has been reported by Kohanacat, we're talking MP efficiencies in the 10+ damage/MP ratio... That's pretty much unheard of for even a BLM unless you MB or have rare weather/day situations. Since the cost is so low, I'm guessing the casting time is pretty reasonable as well.

I'm a bit disappointed that Accession Reraise doesn't work though

Well, we know MAB boosts Helix DoT. Checking Elemental skill would be next, as I'd guess that'll also help determine damage (like Bio does with Dark skill).

Incidentally, RDM/SCH may actually benefit from having Bio III. Wouldn't B skill in Dark magic from Dark Arts (and the 10 percent discount on casting MP) actually push it's DoT levels up to above BLM Bio II?

[dyluck]

Incidentally, RDM/SCH may actually benefit from having Bio III. Wouldn't B skill in Dark magic from Dark Arts (and the 10 percent discount on casting MP) actually push it's DoT levels up to above BLM Bio II?

yes, this is correct