Scholar Discussion attempt #2

[fantasticdan]

About the helix spells, if int effects the damage similar to other nukes, it should be more effective per point than MAB, due to low base damage, if it's anything like blu nukes or magic hammer.

[Darus Grey]

Stupid question if I missed it...but has anyone tried MBing helix spells or have we forgotten SCs exist ;0?

[Moosey]

Stupid question if I missed it...but has anyone tried MBing helix spells or have we forgotten SCs exist ;0?

what are a skilchen?

[Kohanacat]

Just take another Thousand Needles test. Phalanx absorbs damage from that, too. If damage taken is identical by all, you have a winner.

Cool! We didn't know Phalanx worked this way with 1000 needles. I will definately do repeat testing using this method! Thank you.

Enspells
This seems to be based of the recipient's stats, but our testing wasn't very .... scientific? On the spiders in the desert I was hitting consistantly for 17 extra damage with enblizzard. Vylia was hitting for mostly 8's but did occasionally (rarely) get a 15. I think the formula was too complicated for us so we didn't really do much with this. Sorry. D:

This is very strange. If enspell-ga was based on the enhancing magic of the recipient, wouldn't your friend be getting the en-damage effect of 1? O.o

I've noticed that most often times when doing en-spellga that you will hit for only 1 damage, the occasional 7 or 14 damage procs. If you look into the mobs weakness, use that en-spell though, and you'll see consistent 7 damage and occasional 14 damage procs. (Was using En-Blizzard on Crawler's in Aydeewa Subterrain, good procs. However, on the puktraps they were all proc-ing for 1 damage). Note that this was posted a page or two ago by someone, so feel free to read that.

Yes, I realize this is the case, we were mainly just trying to see what enspell damage was based on for other members. :D Vylia had a feeling it was something like Spekkio is suggesting, the maximum damage of the enspell is based of the Scholar's Enhancing skill, but the actual damage/resist rate is calculated using the recipients stats.

[Gilanth]

Just a small crappy note but something someone might be intrested in my Divine magic is very very gimped and it does skillup on Scholar so i can only presume all the other magic's do too.

[Khamsin]

Just a small crappy note but something someone might be intrested in my Divine magic is very very gimped and it does skillup on Scholar so i can only presume all the other magic's do too.

Why wouldn't it skill up?

[ruf]

I think he's just saying they get native divine skill without any native divine spells, like rdm. That's all.

[Spider-Dan]

As far as I know of, enspell damage relies solely on your enhancing magic skill (baring any +enspell damage equipment).

For what it's worth, I'm pretty sure that when I Aura Steal enspell from an elemental/beastman RDM, it's not based on my 0 skill (as I don't hit for 1). And as you can see in my sig, when I stole 'zerk from a Dhalmel, it certainly wasn't based on my ATK/DEF.

[Lordwafik]

When I steal it , it's for pitiful en-numbers.

[Byrthnoth]

if i had to conjecture, i would guess that en spells set their maximum damage at the time of instantiation based on the enhancing magic of their caster, then erroneously (at least imo. may be by design.) calculate resists based off the player who is under the effect of the spell. the fact that the bst receiving the en-spell got almost exactly half of your damage out of it, leads me to believe it's resisting, rather than capping out, especially due to the single spike effect.

this would be easy to test. get on a job that has no native enhancing magic and sub scholar which would give a very meager enhancing skill. receive the effect of en-whatever and see what your damage is. after that, activate light arts, giving a b skill in enhancing and see if the mode of the numbers changes and see if the maximum of the numbers change.

I'm quoting this because no one reads the last post but the poster who dings the next page and this was a good idea.

I brought up MBing, but it's rather hard to test. I'd expect the standard 30% damage boost though. Still, 100 damage 5 times is only 500 damage, and if it takes a full minute . . . . that blows. They need to reduce the delay to normal tick lengths but keep the duration the same.

[Gilanth]

I think he's just saying they get native divine skill without any native divine spells, like rdm. That's all.

Exactly. Was just a bit of information someone might find useful , better to know than not to.

[Kohanacat]

I was running through Alzadaal Undersea Ruins just now, and came up with a simple test to see if SCH weather stacks with zone weather.

The zone had double water weather at the time. I equipped Rain Hat, which has "Rainy Weather: Adds Regen", and Desert Boots, which have "Sandstorms: Movement Speed+12%". By swapping out HP->MP gear it was very easy to see the regen was activated. I then cast Sandstorm on myself to see if both effects would be active at once, but the Regen stopped completely and the effect of the boots was activated, overwriting the zone weather entirely. This leads me to believe SCH buffed weather simply overwrites the weather of the zone and does not work together with it.

[Max™]

I was running through Alzadaal Undersea Ruins just now, and came up with a simple test to see if SCH weather stacks with zone weather.

The zone had double water weather at the time. I equipped Rain Hat, which has "Rainy Weather: Adds Regen", and Desert Boots, which have "Sandstorms: Movement Speed+12%". By swapping out HP->MP gear it was very easy to see the regen was activated. I then cast Sandstorm on myself to see if both effects would be active at once, but the Regen stopped completely and the effect of the boots was activated, overwriting the zone weather entirely. This leads me to believe SCH buffed weather simply overwrites the weather of the zone and does not work together with it.

Thats a test which shows it overwrites the opposing.

We need some tests to see if it can apply double weather to a single weather currently in effect.

If not, /le weep from all those Blm's thinking "OMG FULL TIME DOUBLE THUNDAR! AT FAF".

[Gilthas]

Opposing isn't really the right word.

You can go to Alzaadal and cast the water weather on yourself and see if it cancels double weather effect too. Having an Obi would make these tests easier.

Personally I'm betting that storm spells just replace current weather with single weather of the spell type. Maybe SE will eventually give them a group 2 job ability that modifies current weather on a target to double weather.

[Lordwafik]

Thats a test which shows it overwrites the opposing.

No it's not . Earth and Water are neutral to each other.

[Kyreth]

Yep. Thunder would be "opposite".

Personally, I wish they'd allow helix stackage to follow the same rules as BLM elemental DoT. So Thunder/Fire/Wind would stack, Earth/Water/Ice would stack, Light would stack with any but Dark would over-ride and vice versa.

[Max™]

Thats a test which shows it overwrites the opposing.

No it's not . Earth and Water are neutral to each other.

Was kind of talking to someone IRL when I posted, I should have said existing, not opposing.

As in, it overwrote the existing weather, which makes it all make sense.

Didn't notice I posted the wrong word til I saw the replies and was thinking "wtf, opposing? did I write that?" and I did, my bad.

[Toth]

I can confirm somewhat that the Enspells work on the SCH's enhancing level. We were doing beetles at the desert and I wanted to test out enspellga fully. Initially, the results were very disappointing. I only had Enaero, Enthunder, and Enwater at 43 and every one would only do 1 additional point of damage per swing from the melees. But then I dinged 44 SCH and was now able to use Enblizzard, since Beetles are weak to Blizzard. BOOM. After I cast it, EVERY melee did 5 additional damage per swing with Enblizzard on, some going as high as 10. The results were consistent throughout the party and I am going to reaffirm that the enspellgas work great but only on elements the mob is weak to naturally. It's an excellent way to boost overall party damage by only using a whopping 36 mp and I am curious how this will scale as I level.

[Gilthas]

Unless you or another player with magic skills were meleeing you really didn't prove anything. Just that beetles are weak to ice.

[Toth]

If the enspell effect was based on the player's individual enhancing skill, then any enspellga effect would do 1-3 tops, regardless of the mob's natural weaknesses.