Scholar Discussion attempt #2

[Max™]

0-3 Tops.

They can proc for 0 can't they?

[Byrthnoth]

I've never had it happen, but maybe. The weakness theory really doesn't explain anything. Enspells do a set damage and are resisted fractionally like black magic spells. If someone with 0 enhancing magic cast an en-spell, it would do 0 damage. They are also boosted/hurt by weather/day the same way black magic is. Even with the right weather on the right day against the right monster, someone with 0 enhancing magic should still hit for 0. That they don't hit for 0 is evidence that it's based on the caster's skill.
That said, I haven't meleed high level monsters with enspells enough to really say what determines their resist rate. It could be that the resist rate is delta-INT based and all the melees just have craptastic INT. Like if every melee was casting Stone with their shitty INT. Could be that enspells are affected by the caster's INT < target's INT nuke modifier, and all of the melees have INT < target's INT, so their max damage is less than half the total damage to start with.
Either way, enspells really don't have that much potential unless you're fighting Puks with a bunch of 1H and do Enblizzardga or something. That might add 15 damage/hit if they're all tarus and the INT hypothesis is correct.

Enhancing Calculator, for reference:
http://nullvector.com/enhancing.php

[whoami]

Could be we are seeing the enspells fall within the resist rate of regular nukes for damage (btw anyone want to dig up the phalanx and enspell formulas sence those are being talked about a lot here?) no resist (10 damage) half resist (5) and one forth(2-3) or full resist (1). if someone gets the chance with a brd in the party have them use a thredony of the en spell your using and see what resist/damage rate would be. (like enblizzard on bettles have brd use ice thredony as a example. then do it again without the thredony for comparison sake)

[Admo]

Could be we are seeing the enspells fall within the resist rate of regular nukes for damage (btw anyone want to dig up the phalanx and enspell formulas sence those are being talked about a lot here?) no resist (10 damage) half resist (5) and one forth(2-3) or full resist (1). if someone gets the chance with a brd in the party have them use a thredony of the en spell your using and see what resist/damage rate would be. (like enblizzard on bettles have brd use ice thredony as a example. then do it again without the thredony for comparison sake)

Equations used: Stoneskin:
F1: ([Enhancing Magic Skill] / 3) + MND when X < 100
F2: {([Enhancing Magic Skill] / 3) + MND} * 2 - 60 when X = 100 - 150
F3: {([Enhancing Magic Skill] / 3) + MND} * 3 - 190 when X > 150
where X = ([Enhancing Magic Skill] / 3) + MND + 20

Phalanx:
(Enhancing / 10) - 2
Phalanx II:
[(Enhancing / 25) + 1 + (3 x MeritLv)]

En-spell: Enhancing < 150: (SQRT(Enhancing) - 1) * (1 + day bonus + weather bonus)
Enhancing >= 150: (Enhancing/20 + 5) * (1 + day bonus + weather bonus)
Correct day = +0.1, Weather = +0.1 for each "dot"
Opposite day = -0.1, Weather = -0.1 for each "dot"

Right in the link in the post before yours...

[Neosutra]

I think enspells are ALOT more sensitive to resist rates and elemental weaknesses to be compared with blm spells. I solo pld/rdm alot and if I dont use a spell the mob is strong too, then I get full resist 95% of the time. If I use a nuetral spell then I get half resists 90% of the time, and if I use an enspell the mob is weak too I get full damage most of the time.

I just go for Mob weakness/day of the week/weather.

And adding 5-10 damage to everyone's attack is pretty good for that MP cost.

[Maxxthepenguin]

Props to the enspell idea, that is actually quite clever and can be quite potent it seems, especially with all the dancers that are now around :D

[kenshyn]

enspells and dancers don't mix the effects don't stack so a dancer would have to not use the awesome sambas for the enspells a tradeoff i am not sure is worth it at all.

[Maxxthepenguin]

Actually, I was meleeing as RDM in a party last night (hey, it was lvl 25 and the pt was DNC DNC DNC RDM THF THF, we didn't need more healing) and my enspells seemed to work fine with sambas. I didn't expect it, but it seemed like it was working on some level. I sometimes drained and sometimes enspelled.

I was mostly thinking of DNC because of the fast attacks though.

[Khamsin]

Which caused more additional damage? The drain, or the enspell?

[Maxxthepenguin]

The drains don't cause damage, they're like blood weapon

So the enspell lol

[Byrthnoth]

I really suspect it's an INT based thing related to the way INT affects resists. Anyone can tell you that if your INT is below your target's, you're going to get horrendous resists along with a penalty on the actual spell damage. Now, assuming your "spell damage" is set thanks to the caster's enhancing magic, then you're just getting an INT based resist penalty.

This doesn't talk about resists, but it shows the penalty for when dINT is negative.
http://wiki.bluegartr.com/Magic_Damage

It could be that en-spells would make a good model for testing out how INT affects spell accuracy. You could test a variety of INT builds on the same monster due to the low damage nature of en-spells, and if you picked the right weapons you'd hit a hell of a lot and not do much damage (Hornetneedle/Beestinger, all right!). I'd think Catoblepas would be the best monster to test this out on. They have no particularly strong elemental affiliation, are generally soloable, range up to level 80, have a healing move they like to spam, and have a ton of HP. You can just dispel off their Berserk when they use it and keep them alive indefinitely as long as you're feeding them TP with your two little knives.

[Eklm]

To give more info with what toth has already posted, I was doing beetles in QSC and then Crabs in Kufal and i was seeing the same thing (Level 51-53). All Enspells i would cast would be doing 1 damage just like Toth, but Enblizzard was doing 6 dmg on average and 12 dmg unresisted

From this I think it would be safe to assume that as we level up the Enspell will become more potent (from our Enhancing skill?) and be a welcome addition to any party

To post what Toth wrote,

I can confirm somewhat that the Enspells work on the SCH's enhancing level. We were doing beetles at the desert and I wanted to test out enspellga fully. Initially, the results were very disappointing. I only had Enaero, Enthunder, and Enwater at 43 and every one would only do 1 additional point of damage per swing from the melees. But then I dinged 44 SCH and was now able to use Enblizzard, since Beetles are weak to Blizzard. BOOM. After I cast it, EVERY melee did 5 additional damage per swing with Enblizzard on, some going as high as 10. The results were consistent throughout the party and I am going to reaffirm that the enspellgas work great but only on elements the mob is weak to naturally. It's an excellent way to boost overall party damage by only using a whopping 36 mp and I am curious how this will scale as I level.

[Kohanacat]

Hooray!!!!! Ding SCH75! :D

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/Kohi/75sch.jpg

Also, for anyone wondering if helices can be Magic Bursts...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/Kohi/helixmb.jpg

.. they can! Yay!

Going to farm obi/get buffer now, hoping to do lots of testing in the next few days!

Thank you,
Kohana

[Edenbuster]

Congrats koh! :D Very well deserved! Looking forward to tests, Especially on Chariots. :3

[ruf]

Grats Kohana.

[Draggy]

grats on 75

[Starless]

Hooray!!!!! Ding SCH75! :D

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v465/Kohi/75sch.jpg

"And then Kohana was a zombie."

I found that hilarious for some reason. Grats on 75.

[Byrthnoth]

Congrats on 75 Kohana. Gogo testing! (when you wake up after the week of sleep you're entitled to.)

[Toth]

Grats! I only have 30 levels to catch up on now lol

[Naramaska]

'grats on 75!

Any experience with it in anything endgame-related yet? :X


(And is that really Seers gear? <_<)